Genesis 6 Giants in scripture

Denadii · Dec 29, 2017

TribulationSigns said:
Ridiculous. Please show us where God actually said this in Scripture. It is purely your private opinion based on Greek mythology.

You need to know that ALL mythology is based on truth...ALL mythology. What our friend says is true.

TribulationSigns · Dec 29, 2017

Denadii said:
In the beginning the angels were the created sons of God

Show me Scripture where it says exactly that?

TribulationSigns · Dec 29, 2017

Denadii said:
You need to know that ALL mythology is based on truth...ALL mythology. What our friend says is true.

LOL! what a foolish statement.

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

1Jn 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

And you think mythology is based on Scripture Truth? Of course NOT!

TribulationSigns · Dec 29, 2017

seventysevens said:
read the bible - it's in there

Really? Show me the chapter and verses to see if you know what you are talking about!

Denadii · Dec 29, 2017

TribulationSigns said:
LOL! what a foolish statement.

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

1Jn 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

And you think mythology is based on Scripture Truth? Of course NOT!

Your arguments are based on emotion...Not truth or logic....

seventysevens · Dec 30, 2017

TribulationSigns said:
Show me Scripture where it says exactly that?

You profess you have studied the bible a long long long time , but yet you do not understand that lucifer is satan!
This proves your lack of understanding of what the Word of God says and means!
You have applied your own false private misleading interpretation which is why you cannot see the truth!
Study who lucifer is and how and why he fell.
More than enough scripture has been provided to you - you have chosen to be blind to the easily proven truth - that is what happens when you try to symbolize and allegorize Gods literal truth

Denadii · Dec 30, 2017

TribulationSigns said:
LOL! what a foolish statement.

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

1Jn 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

And you think mythology is based on Scripture Truth? Of course NOT!

I must say that I get a kick out of this anaswer of yours. We're talking about myth being based on truth. Then you give me scriptures referring to scripture....Scripture is NOT myth....What does one have to do with the other?

seventysevens · Dec 30, 2017

TribulationSigns said:
Really? Show me the chapter and verses to see if you know what you are talking about!

Ok I see that you are having a real difficulty in understanding this matter , it appears you are suffering from symbolism/allegorical and private doctrine overload
Scripture for the 3rd time , I shall break it down for you to make it easier for you to understand - this referring to lucifer/satan the same angelic being whom God created

Eze28
You were the seal of perfection,------- Perfection as in originally when created
Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.----------Full of wisdom and perfect beauty
13 You were in Eden, the garden of God; ------- self explanatory YES
Every precious stone was your covering:
The sardius, topaz, and diamond,
Beryl, onyx, and jasper,
Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold.
The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes
Was prepared for you on the day you were created..... all of the above the day he was created

14 “You were the anointed cherub who covers;...cherub HIGH Ranking in Heaven
I established you;--------------Almighty God established him
You were on the holy mountain of God;----self explanatory that he was on God's Holy mountain
You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.
15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created,
Till iniquity was found in you......Bingo ding ding ding he lucifer sinned

16 “By the abundance of your trading
You became filled with violence within,
And you sinned;--------------lucifer the highest cherub angel sinned-so God cast him out
Therefore I cast you as a profane thing
Out of the mountain of God;
And I destroyed you, O covering cherub,
From the midst of the fiery stones.

17 “Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty;
You corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor;
I cast you to the ground,
I laid you before kings,
That they might gaze at you.

Perhaps in all the years you have studied you learned that when angels sin it is game over for them - but man being created in Gods image are redeemable through Christ Jesus, Do you not understand why it is only satan that is superior over all the other fallen angels and he has so much power -because he was given all the above when he was created
There are more scripture that describe why he was called a snake/serpent but since you have studied for a long long long time you should be able to take this info and learn the whole story , it is not like you be a newbie to studying the bible , google is your friend

Dave Watchman · Dec 30, 2017

TribulationSigns said:
Ahem...
if there is one idea in some Christian circles that has always puzzled me, it is the notion that when Genesis chapter 6 speaks of the sons of God taking wives of the daughters of men, it was somehow referring to angels, heavenly beings, or even aliens mating with human women. It amazes me that not only is such an idea unequivocally accepted by many in the church, but that it is also put forth by some theologians.

Ahem...

Are you the same Tony Warren that wrote this article:?

What were The Nephilims in
Relationship to the Sons of God?
-by Tony Warren

f there is one idea in some Christian circles that has always puzzled me, it is the notion that when Genesis chapter 6 speaks of the sons of God taking wives of the daughters of men, it was somehow referring to angels, or heavenly beings mating with human women. It amazes me that not only is such an idea unequivocally accepted by many in the church, but that it is also put forth by some theologians.

The Nephilims: and the Sons of God

If so I have a question.

TribulationSigns said:
Job 38:7

"When the morning star sang together, and all the Sons of God shouted for Joy."

When I select the text of this script, i can't find what translation you got this from.

All that comes up for me shows as morning "stars", plural.

New International Version
while the morning stars sang together and all the angels shouted for joy?

New Living Translation
as the morning stars sang together and all the angels shouted for joy?

English Standard Version
when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

New American Standard Bible
When the morning stars sang together And all the sons of God shouted for joy?

King James Bible
When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Holman Christian Standard Bible
while the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

International Standard Version
while the morning stars sang together and all the divine beings shouted joyfully?

NET Bible
when the morning stars sang in chorus, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

New Heart English Bible
when the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

GOD'S WORD® Translation
when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

JPS Tanakh 1917
When the morning stars sang together, And all the sons of God shouted for joy?

New American Standard 1977
When the morning stars sang together,
And all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Jubilee Bible 2000
when the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

King James 2000 Bible
When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

American King James Version
When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

American Standard Version
When the morning stars sang together, And all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Douay-Rheims Bible
When the morning stars praised me together, and all the sons of God made a joyful melody?

Darby Bible Translation
When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

English Revised Version
When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Webster's Bible Translation
When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

World English Bible
when the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Young's Literal Translation
In the singing together of stars of morning, And all sons of God shout for joy,

The only thing that comes close to your "quote" is a link to a latter day saint book of some kind.

The Latter-Day Saints' Millennial Star
The Latter-Day Saints' Millennial Star
1895 - ‎Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints
... and His shield the "armor of righteousness;" His laws were not enacted in in the councils of ambitious men, but were the eternal laws of God enacted in the Councils of Heaven, before the foundations of the earth were laid, "when the morning star's sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy ;" His debates were ...

But it still doesn't look quite right.

Anyway, when I read:

"when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy

It sounds like a time in prehistory before the dragon took third of the angels from heaven. At that time all the angels sang together, and ALL the sons of God shouted for joy. We weren't here yet.

"When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy.

This looks like an example of a Hebrew couplet, the "morning stars" and the "sons of God are the same thing.

Here's another example:

"Lift up your heads, you gates;
be lifted up, you ancient doors,
that the King of glory may come in.

"You gates", and "you ancient doors" are the same thing.

That the King of glory may come in.

"And I saw a star fallen from heaven to earth,
and he was given the key to the shaft of the bottomless pit.

And welcome to the forum.

Postvieww · Dec 31, 2017

TribulationSigns said:
No, the context shows that The morning stars and the sons of God are all the people of God's congregation! They are those who were chosen in Christ FROM THE BEGINNING and who sang together and shout for joy when God laid the cornerstone (Jesus Christ) of the church.

Who are the sons of God?

Christ is THE Son of God and His Chosen children are also the sons of God. All those who are sons of the father are often times called the sons of God (Romans 8:14, 9:26, Galatians 3:26, etc.)

This has no relationship to “sons of God” in the OT!

Denadii · Dec 31, 2017

No said:
The "Sons of God" reference is not difficult at all...In the Old Covenant the sons of God were the angels which God created...They even looked like him, to a point. The 'morning stars' part is a bit more difficult.. There are two trains of thought there...The first is that the morning stars are the angels again. To me that does not make sense....To say 'The sons of God and the morning stars sang together....looks like the angels and the angels sang together...until you factor int hat there are at least three, possibly four types of angel (only one of these types being angels).
The other train of thought is that the morning stars were actual stars that surround the most bright and beautiful star that shines in the early morning at certain times of the year...And this is possible...It is a fact that the stars all 'sing' at certain and different frequencies.

To assert though that the 'Sons of God' are the ones that are chosen by God from the beginning has no basis in truth.. no basis in the Word.
As a bit of a side note here...There are several verses in the bible, which if taken as a group could indicate that Gods creation is somewhat sentient....
"If the people had not praised me..The very stones would have cried out"
The morning stars sang together. (if it is actual stars...) as a sampling.

TribulationSigns · Jan 2, 2018

Dave Watchman said:
If so I have a question.

When I select the text of this script, i can't find what translation you got this from.

All that comes up for me shows as morning "stars", plural.

Its my typo. It is morning stars which are still the Sons of God, the messengers (angels).

Anyway, when I read:

"when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy

It sounds like a time in prehistory before the dragon took third of the angels from heaven. At that time all the angels sang together, and ALL the sons of God shouted for joy. We weren't here yet.[/quote]

So it "sounds like" to you without actual bible study yourself? No, the Scripture does not say this. First, you got heaven all misunderstood where the dragon and his angel fought. For example:

Luke 10:17-19

"And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.
And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you."

By His death on the cross and resurrection to life Christ gave us the power over serpents (Mark 16) that they could not hurt us, and the Serpent, of course, is Satan. Satan falling from heaven is synonymous with saying that Satan would be cast out of the Kingdom of heaven so that Christ could seal the 144,000 from the nations, redeeming the house of Israel in building His church. It is Christ who brought the nations perpetual peace, harmony, and blessedness. This is the same portrait as Revelation 12 where God says Satan, the deceiver of the world, was cast out of heaven by Michael and His messengers. Not literal/physical Heaven, but it is symbolic of the Kingdom of heaven. Again, consider what is truly being said concerning this Serpent, the deceiver Satan. The deceiver of the world or nations was cast out at the cross.

Revelation 12:7-9

"And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

Not a literal heaven, not a literal Dragon, and not literal stars on a woman's head, but symbolic. This heaven represented the Kingdom of heaven, just as when God said the Kingdom of heaven suffered violence (Matthew 11:12) where the violent took it by force, as He was speaking of the kingdom of God on earth, which was the Lord's congregation Israel in travail. There was spiritual warfare and Christ came to comfort Jerusalem (Spiritually) and bring peace. All these passages speak of this restoration of the Kingdom of heaven, but God's word declares first Satan had to be cast out and bound from deceiving until the millennial reign was over. By His cross, He cast Satan out so that He could set those of the nations/gentiles free of their captivity wherein they were "deceived" and lost. He didn't stop everybody of every nation/gentile from being deceived, it was the elect, those of whom He would build His church that were in view. That's who Satan was bound for the sake of "These" not being deceived.

Matthew 12:29

"Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.
He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad."

Those who were not with Christ were the messengers of the Kingdom (Revelation 12) at war with Him. Those with Him the messengers of the Kingdom of heaven with Micheal, the chief or head messenger of the Covenant. He is the Michael who cast the Dragon out of the old testament congregation and rebuilt new testament congregation so he could have those in spiritual captivity free! But FIRST He had to bind Satan (which is what Revelation chapter 20 cooborates) so that the nations/gentiles wouldn't remain deceived and these nations would come to Christ. Listen dutifully to what Christ says concerning this casting out and binding:

Mark 3:23

"And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan?
And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.
And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.
And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.
No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house."

Clearly, the strong man is Satan, those he held captive in his house are the elect whom Christ set free, but Jesus explains "first" He had to bind him. In other words, it was Christ who cast out Satan, but first he had to bind him. And as Revelation 20 illustrates, only then could the nations/gentiles no longer be deceived.

This did not take place in literally heaven or third heaven where God seat. Instaed it takes place in the old testament congregation which the kingdom of heaven represented! Where Satan was among the messengers (angels) therein! So much for your "pre-historic" theory!

Denadii · Jan 2, 2018

TribulationSigns said:
Its my typo. It is morning stars which are still the Sons of God, the messengers (angels).

Anyway, when I read:

"when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy

It sounds like a time in prehistory before the dragon took third of the angels from heaven. At that time all the angels sang together, and ALL the sons of God shouted for joy. We weren't here yet.

So it "sounds like" to you without actual bible study yourself? No, the Scripture does not say this. First, you got heaven all misunderstood where the dragon and his angel fought. For example:

Luke 10:17-19

"And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.
And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you."

By His death on the cross and resurrection to life Christ gave us the power over serpents (Mark 16) that they could not hurt us, and the Serpent, of course, is Satan. Satan falling from heaven is synonymous with saying that Satan would be cast out of the Kingdom of heaven so that Christ could seal the 144,000 from the nations, redeeming the house of Israel in building His church. It is Christ who brought the nations perpetual peace, harmony, and blessedness. This is the same portrait as Revelation 12 where God says Satan, the deceiver of the world, was cast out of heaven by Michael and His messengers. Not literal/physical Heaven, but it is symbolic of the Kingdom of heaven. Again, consider what is truly being said concerning this Serpent, the deceiver Satan. The deceiver of the world or nations was cast out at the cross.

Revelation 12:7-9

"And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

Not a literal heaven, not a literal Dragon, and not literal stars on a woman's head, but symbolic. This heaven represented the Kingdom of heaven, just as when God said the Kingdom of heaven suffered violence (Matthew 11:12) where the violent took it by force, as He was speaking of the kingdom of God on earth, which was the Lord's congregation Israel in travail. There was spiritual warfare and Christ came to comfort Jerusalem (Spiritually) and bring peace. All these passages speak of this restoration of the Kingdom of heaven, but God's word declares first Satan had to be cast out and bound from deceiving until the millennial reign was over. By His cross, He cast Satan out so that He could set those of the nations/gentiles free of their captivity wherein they were "deceived" and lost. He didn't stop everybody of every nation/gentile from being deceived, it was the elect, those of whom He would build His church that were in view. That's who Satan was bound for the sake of "These" not being deceived.

Matthew 12:29

"Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.
He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad."

Those who were not with Christ were the messengers of the Kingdom (Revelation 12) at war with Him. Those with Him the messengers of the Kingdom of heaven with Micheal, the chief or head messenger of the Covenant. He is the Michael who cast the Dragon out of the old testament congregation and rebuilt new testament congregation so he could have those in spiritual captivity free! But FIRST He had to bind Satan (which is what Revelation chapter 20 cooborates) so that the nations/gentiles wouldn't remain deceived and these nations would come to Christ. Listen dutifully to what Christ says concerning this casting out and binding:

Mark 3:23

"And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan?
And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.
And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.
And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.
No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house."

Clearly, the strong man is Satan, those he held captive in his house are the elect whom Christ set free, but Jesus explains "first" He had to bind him. In other words, it was Christ who cast out Satan, but first he had to bind him. And as Revelation 20 illustrates, only then could the nations/gentiles no longer be deceived.

This did not take place in literally heaven or third heaven where God seat. Instaed it takes place in the old testament congregation which the kingdom of heaven represented! Where Satan was among the messengers (angels) therein! So much for your "pre-historic" theory![/QUOTE]
Sons of God.....That is all of the angels...Created sons of God. The good the bad and the ugly and all kinds...they are the sons of God...
I tend to believe that the 'morning stars' mentioned in Job are the actual stars that shine in the morning hours.
The bible says Satan was cast out of heaven...I'm pretty sure that means that Satan was cast out of heaven.
Yes....Satan is the strongman....We do have to bind him before we can spoil his house....But really....did Jesus need to? He already had Satan under his feet...Even Satan could not keep Him down....The kingdom of heaven is the kingdom of heaven...not some symbolic utopia. When Jesus spoke of the kingdom of heaven He was talking about the real thing.
Personally, and not telling you what to do.....I think you should stop studying the Word cranially and start studying it in the spirit...listening the the Holy Spirit as He teaches you....

Riberra · Jan 2, 2018

TribulationSigns said:
Can't you read the Scripture?

Rev 22:16
[16] I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

And for EVERY Redeemed Elect who have overcome in Christ are also considered as morning star in God's eye:

Rev 2:26-29
[26] And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
[27] And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
[28] And I will give him the morning star.
[29] He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

You are confirming what I said ....

The other morning star mentioned in the BIBLE Have FALLEN

Question: "Why are both Jesus and Satan referred to as the morning star?"

The BIBLICAL PROOF
The first reference to the morning star as an individual is in Isaiah 14:12: “How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!” (NIV). The KJV and NKJV both translate “morning star” as “Lucifer, son of the morning.” It is clear from the rest of the passage that Isaiah is referring to Satan’s fall from heaven (Luke 10:18). So in this case, the morning star refers to Satan. In Revelation 22:16, Jesus unmistakably identifies Himself as the morning star. Why are both Jesus and Satan described as the “morning star”?

It is interesting to note that the concept of the “morning star” is not the only concept that is applied to both Jesus and Satan. In Revelation 5:5, Jesus is referred to as the Lion of the tribe of Judah. In 1 Peter 5:8, Satan is compared to a lion, seeking someone to devour. The point is this, both Jesus and Satan, to a certain extent, have similarities to lions. Jesus is similar to a lion in that He is the King, He is royal and majestic. Satan is similar to a lion in that he seeks to devour other creatures. That is where the similarities between Jesus, Satan, and lions end, however. Jesus and Satan are like lions in very different ways.

The idea of a “bright morning star” is a star that outshines all the others, and Jesus is the One who is called “bright.” Satan was a morning star. Jesus, as God incarnate, the Lord of the universe, is the BRIGHT and morning star. Jesus is the most holy and powerful “light” in all the universe. So, while both Jesus and Satan can be described as “morning stars,” in no sense is this equating Jesus and Satan. Satan is a created being. His light only exists to the extent that God created it. Jesus is the light of the world (John 9:5). Only Jesus’ light is “bright” and self-existent. Satan may be a morning star, but he is only a poor imitation of the one true bright morning star, Jesus Christ, the light of the world.

Link:
Why are both Jesus and Satan referred to as the morning star?

Denadii · Jan 3, 2018

n the

Riberra said:
You are confirming what I said ....

The other morning staoned in the BIBLE Have FALLEN

Question: "Why are both Jesus and Satan referred to as the morning star?"

The BIBLICAL PROOF
The first reference to the morning star as an individual is in Isaiah 14:12: “How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!” (NIV). The KJV and NKJV both translate “morning star” as “Lucifer, son of the morning.” It is clear from the rest of the passage that Isaiah is referring to Satan’s fall from heaven (Luke 10:18). So in this case, the morning star refers to Satan. In Revelation 22:16, Jesus unmistakably identifies Himself as the morning star. Why are both Jesus and Satan described as the “morning star”?

It is interesting to note that the concept of the “morning star” is not the only concept that is applied to both Jesus and Satan. In Revelation 5:5, Jesus is referred to as the Lion of the tribe of Judah. In 1 Peter 5:8, Satan is compared to a lion, seeking someone to devour. The point is this, both Jesus and Satan, to a certain extent, have similarities to lions. Jesus is similar to a lion in that He is the King, He is royal and majestic. Satan is similar to a lion in that he seeks to devour other creatures. That is where the similarities between Jesus, Satan, and lions end, however. Jesus and Satan are like lions in very different ways.

The idea of a “bright morning star” is a star that outshines all the others, and Jesus is the One who is called “bright.” Satan was a morning star. Jesus, as God incarnate, the Lord of the universe, is the BRIGHT and morning star. Jesus is the most holy and powerful “light” in all the universe. So, while both Jesus and Satan can be described as “morning stars,” in no sense is this equating Jesus and Satan. Satan is a created being. His light only exists to the extent that God created it. Jesus is the light of the world (John 9:5). Only Jesus’ light is “bright” and self-existent. Satan may be a morning star, but he is only a poor imitation of the one true bright morning star, Jesus Christ, the light of the world.

Link:
Why are both Jesus and Satan referred to as the morning star?

Well its an interesting question, and I understand that you asked it of my friend TribulationSigns.
Jesus was called the morning star...Have you ever gotten up early in the morning, before daylight? At certain times of the year there is a very bright star in the southeast....It outshines all other stars in the sky....It's the morning star. The sky is heavily strewn with stars all around it making an awesome sight.... That's what Jesus is compared to.. Thw rood word is orthrinos in the greek ..But Satan, son of the morning, is compared to what he was created to be. It would be comparable to the early light of dawn. The word is shachar in the greek... Two very different things. So.........You are RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRight Laddie!!!!!!!

TribulationSigns · Jan 3, 2018

Denadii said:
Sons of God.....That is all of the angels...Created sons of God. The good the bad and the ugly and all kinds...they are the sons of God...

Nope. God is not the author of confusion. God did not consider the created celestial beings (angel) as His sons in the old testament and then consider human elect as sons of God in the New Testament. The Scripture must be compared with the rest of Scripture which is what is called biblical exegesis which you lacks! The so-called celestial beings (angels) were never considered as sons of God!

I tend to believe that the 'morning stars' mentioned in Job are the actual stars that shine in the morning hours.

Of course not.

The bible says Satan was cast out of heaven...I'm pretty sure that means that Satan was cast out of heaven.

Not if you understood heaven in proper context.

....Satan is the strongman....

Yes, of course!

We do have to bind him before we can spoil his house

Click to expand...

....

Wrong! Jesus did! Read Matthew 12:29, Mark 3:27, and Luke 11:21. Only Christ can do that. Not "we". Try to check with Scripture first before you make a foolish assumption.

But really....did Jesus need to?

Click to expand...

Did Jesus need to do this? What? Where in the Bible do you read that? Of course, He did! Else he would not have mentioned it in Scripture!

He already had Satan under his feet...Even Satan could not keep Him down....

Click to expand...

Huh? Scripture, please. Do you ever read the context of the passages?

The kingdom of heaven is the kingdom of heaven...not some symbolic utopia.

Click to expand...

Sigh! The kingdom of heaven is the Congregation of Israel which is also what the woman of Revelation 12 represents!

When Jesus spoke of the kingdom of heaven He was talking about the real thing.

Click to expand...

Yes! It is the congregation of Israel, the body of Christ.

Personally, and not telling you what to do.....I think you should stop studying the Word cranially and start studying it in the spirit...listening the the Holy Spirit as He teaches you....

Click to expand...

[Chuckle], I think you need to tell this to yourself.

TribulationSigns · Jan 3, 2018

Denadii said:
You are RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRight Laddie!!!!!!!

He is so wrrrrrrrrrrrrrrong.

Isa 14:12
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

The meaning of Lucifer, [heylel], is SHINNING. It is from the root Hebrew word [halal], literally to be clear, and by extension that which is transparent or has a shine. It is not what you think it is. A near literal reading of this sentence would be:

"How art thou fallen from heaven shinning son of the morning! Thou art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!"

It's an spiritual allegory of sorts, the portent of which is to illustrate the Satanic falling away of those who have rule over God's people and did corrupt the nations, prefigured as Babylon, and their king as Satan. They are symbolized even as stars and their king as Satan that is falling from his place in heaven (congregation of Israel, not to be confused with literal heaven).

Isaiah 14:13

"For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:"

It is a man, ruled by Satan, as he sits to rule in the congregation. There really is no contradiction here or confusion in him being called a "Shinning son of the Morning" fallen from heaven. He is not pictured as the Morning Star himself. Christ "is" the Morning Star. Period. Satan is pictured or prefigured as the son of the Morning Star. In other words, Satan is working through a man as a son of God in the external or corporately sense. And if we search through scripture carefully we will learn that all "professing Christians" are spoken of symbolically or allegorically as being stars in heaven. Daniel and Revelation are some clear examples. So the only problem with this language of Isaiah is that which some people choose to create for themselves. The Lord speaks through scripture in parables, allegories, figures, and with symbolism.

Think about it.... when we profess Christ we are called sons of God because He "IS" the Son of God. When we profess Christ we are called Messengers because Christ is the Messenger and we are His messengers! When we profess Christ we are called Israel because Christ is the Israel of God and we are of Israel. When we profess Christ we are called stars because Christ is the Star. When we profess Christ we are called the light of the world because Christ is the Light of the world. There is no great mystery here. God is prefiguring a falling away. And it's no mystery that the language sounds a lot like that found in 2nd Thessalonians Chapter 2 and in Revelation Chapter 18 of the fall of Babylon (The Church).

Isaiah 14:12-15

"How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit."

For example, the shinning star falling from heaven because he wanted to be like God is symbolism for those professing Christ, those in the Church that is spiritually babylon, who have fallen away (Apostasy) and who ruled in God's house "as if" they were God. They forsook His word and counseled according to what seemed right in their own eyes. They corrupted God's word with their own definitions and explanations. As such, they are ruled by Satan and are as "stars falling from heaven to the earth." They made themselves to be as God. Even as Israel did, and even as many are doing today. They are the sons of the morning, the stars falling from heaven. This is the judgment of the unfaithful and external messengers of the church. So no, Satan does not share the title, "Morning Star" with Christ.

Riberra · Jan 3, 2018

TribulationSigns said:
He is so wrrrrrrrrrrrrrrong.

So no, Satan does not share the title, "Morning Star" with Christ.

Reread my post #154....I did not say that Lucifer/Satan SHARE the title of THE BRIGHT MORNING STAR...

But that at one time before his falling because of his pride and desire to sit on the throne of God ...Lucifer was also called a Morning Star....

The first reference to the morning star as an individual is in Isaiah 14:12: “How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!”

TribulationSigns · Jan 3, 2018

Riberra said:
Reread my post #154....I did not say that Lucifer/Satan SHARE the title of THE BRIGHT MORNING STAR...

Still incorrect.

Christ is the Morning Star.
And Christ is the Bright and Morning Star.
Satan NEVER called the Morning Star.
Satan is the son of the morning.
Read my previous post carefully.

But that at one time Lucifer was called also a Morning Star....
The first reference to the morning star as an individual is in Isaiah 14:12: “How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!”

You are using the bad and newer translation. It is the opinion of the translators, not based on literal translation.

Riberra · Jan 3, 2018

TribulationSigns said:
Still incorrect.

Christ is the Morning Star.
And Christ is the Bright and Morning Star.
Satan NEVER called the Morning Star.
Satan is the son of the morning.
Read my previous post carefully.

You are using the bad and newer translation. It is the opinion of the translators, not based on literal translation.

Well ,after verifying with the KJV that is right that Lucifer is called -son of the morning- not the morning star-

Which lead to the subject that ANGELS are called the Stars of God....and are also called the Sons of God in the Old Testament..

Isaiah 14:12 KJV
12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

15Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

Genesis 6 Giants in scripture

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