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Genesis 6:1-4 and Jude 6&7 what do these passages mean? Why should we care?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Postvieww, Jun 28, 2016.

  1. Handmaid for Jesus

    Handmaid for Jesus You can't steal my joy Supporter

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    I had to study Greek and Roman mythology in college. I often wondered where these stories came from and why have they stood the test of time. I wondered where Tolkien and C.S. Lewis got the idea of Elves and Orcs and the like. Archeology has shown us some things to make us wonder, like the depiction of people with heads of birds or half men and half horses. Paul tells us to not to get caught up into all of these things. Now, this is just my opinion, but I believe the society before the flood was very high tech, like we are today. Ecclesiastes tells us that there is nothing new under the sun.
    Ecc. 1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

    10 Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us.

    11 There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after.

    Only in this context do I deem this stuff important. Lord Jesus said it would be as it was in the days of Noah. Well, we don't know what it was like, but we do know that it was a very evil time.How evil I don't think we can even imagine. We also know that the last times will be worse than those times. Here is what He said.
    Mark 13:19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.

    20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.

    Lord Jesus said that mean's hearts will fail them for fear.
    Luke 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

    So, in my curiosity I do think that we have seen nothing yet. What if we see minotaurs walking down the street. Will animals talk again? With the technology at our disposal, anything is possible. And since there is nothing new under the sun. What has been will be again.
     
  2. DavidPT

    DavidPT Well-Known Member

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    It doesn't matter about missing any details since one of his premises is all wrong to begin with.

    Like I indicated in another post, Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 not being the same creation account, that is easily debunked. And the following is one way that I have done so.

    Let's first assume that that Genesis 1 and 2 are not the same creation account. With that in mind, let's consider Noah and his family. Assuming two creation accounts, obviously Noah and his family would have come through the man and woman formed in Genesis 2, and not the male and female created in Genesis 1. That would be the logical conclusion since Noah most definetly came through Adam's line.

    Let's now look at these two creation accounts, still assuming they are not one and the same.

    Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
    27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

    Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.


    Let's now go to Genesis 9.


    Genesis 9:6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.


    The text indicates this---for in the image of God made he man. Where does it say that in Genesis 2? It doesn't. Yet the ones who God was saying this to at the time---Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed---these were the ones that came through Adam, since He said this to Noah and his family. But how can Genesis 9:6 be applicable to Noah and his family if they were not made in the image of God(Genesis 1:26-27), but instead were formed of the dust of the ground, in an entirely different creation event at a later time than recorded in Genesis 1 and the 6th day? for in the image of God made he man---has to connect to Noah and his family. The only way it can, Genesis 1 and 2 are refrring to the same creation accounts.

    Forgot to add this. Genesis 1 indicates God created them male and female. Obviously a female and a woman are one and the same. Assuming Genesis 2 creation happened later, that account clearly indicates there was no such thing as a woman until God made one from Adam's rib. But that would be a lie if Genesis 1 and 2 are not the same creation events. Clearly God created the female species in Genesis 1, the female species being a woman, undeniably so.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2018
  3. Riberra

    Riberra Well-Known Member

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    As i said you miss the details ---
    Genesis 1 : Human created MALE AND FEMALE on the 6TH Day AFTER THE BEAST OF THE EARTH [WILD ANIMALS]...God command THEM [Humans] as well than the animals to Multiply and REPLENISH the Earth ..


    Genesis 2: ADAM created before the BEAST OF THE FIELD [FARM ANIMALS] then Eve is created... They were living in a Garden ----->First FARMER

    Now go listen the video for the precise details if you are interested if not then no problem...
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2018
  4. jhwatts

    jhwatts Junior Member Supporter

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    Noah was from the Genesis 1 account not Genesis 2. Realize Noah was perfect in his generations Genesis 6:9 and would make him made perfect in his likeness and therefore ties him to the Genesis 5 genealogy.

    Genesis 5:1

    1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

    Also notice.

    Genesis 5:29 29 And he called his name Noah, saying, This same shall comfort us concerning our work and toil of our hands, because of the ground which the Lord hath cursed.

    The point of the flood is to remove the first creation. We see God states this before and after the flood.

    The first creation account is the one that God cursed the ground due to the fall. Those thatr have the breath of life are also made from the dust of earth. This is the first creation. God states he will remove it from the earth.

    Genesis 7:21 21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man: 22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.

    Also notice Genesis 8:21. The first creation has been removed and the end result is God promising he will not do it again.

    Genesis 8:21 21 And the Lord smelled a sweet savour; and the Lord said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.
    Realize
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2018
  5. DavidPT

    DavidPT Well-Known Member

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    But I have already adequately debunked one of his false premises. Doesn't that count for anything? Why does the order of animals matter? Genesis 1 is the chronological template. To get the correct chronology of events recorded in Genesis 2, one needs to go back to Genesis 1 in order to see when these events initially took place and on what day.

    Genesis 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

    The text indicates this---And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air. To get the initial timing of when this took place, one has to go back to Genesis 1.

    Genesis 1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
    21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
    22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
    23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
    24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
    25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.


    According to this, Genesis 2:19 needs to be understood like such----And out of the ground, in the fifth day, the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam, in the sixth day, to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

    Where is there an alleged contradiction now? I don't see one.
     
  6. Riberra

    Riberra Well-Known Member

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    Adam was 130 years old when he get his THIRD CHILD named SETH Genesis 5:3..... Where does CAIN find his wife ? ------>Between Genesis 4:1 and Genesis 4:25 130 years have passed..
     
  7. DavidPT

    DavidPT Well-Known Member

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    Assuming two creation events in Genesis 1 and 2, all one has to do is trace whom Noah came through. A good place to start would be Seth, since no one could deny he came through Adam.

    Genesis 5:28 And Lamech lived an hundred eighty and two years, and begat a son:
    29 And he called his name Noah, saying, This same shall comfort us concerning our work and toil of our hands, because of the ground which the LORD hath cursed.

    If we trace back, it clearly leads to the line of Seth.
     
  8. Handmaid for Jesus

    Handmaid for Jesus You can't steal my joy Supporter

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    His third son.Adam also begat daughters.
     
  9. Riberra

    Riberra Well-Known Member

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  10. Handmaid for Jesus

    Handmaid for Jesus You can't steal my joy Supporter

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    The element of time is missing from this discussion. The human gestation period is roughly 40 weeks. A lot of people (females) could be born during the interval between when Cain slew Abel and when Seth was born. For this discussion, we can safely say that it is possible that Cain married his sister and not some other creature.I don't believe Adam waited for over a hundred to have relations with his wife. Plus, we do not know how old Adam was when Cain slew Abel. And we do not know how old Cain and Abel were when Cain slew Abel.
     
  11. DavidPT

    DavidPT Well-Known Member

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    It could mean that but doesn't have to. The following is said of many others as well. To be consistent, one would need to interpret all of these in like manner.

    Genesis 5:7 And Seth lived after he begat Enos eight hundred and seven years, and begat sons and daughters:
    Genesis 5:10 And Enos lived after he begat Cainan eight hundred and fifteen years, and begat sons and daughters:
    Genesis 5:13 And Cainan lived after he begat Mahalaleel eight hundred and forty years, and begat sons and daughters:
    Genesis 5:16 And Mahalaleel lived after he begat Jared eight hundred and thirty years, and begat sons and daughters:
    Genesis 5:19 And Jared lived after he begat Enoch eight hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:
    Genesis 5:22 And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:
    Genesis 5:26 And Methuselah lived after he begat Lamech seven hundred eighty and two years, and begat sons and daughters:
    Genesis 5:30 And Lamech lived after he begat Noah five hundred ninety and five years, and begat sons and daughters:
    Genesis 11:11 And Shem lived after he begat Arphaxad five hundred years, and begat sons and daughters.
    Genesis 11:13 And Arphaxad lived after he begat Salah four hundred and three years, and begat sons and daughters.
    Genesis 11:15 And Salah lived after he begat Eber four hundred and three years, and begat sons and daughters.
    Genesis 11:17 And Eber lived after he begat Peleg four hundred and thirty years, and begat sons and daughters.
    Genesis 11:19 And Peleg lived after he begat Reu two hundred and nine years, and begat sons and daughters.
    Genesis 11:21 And Reu lived after he begat Serug two hundred and seven years, and begat sons and daughters.
    Genesis 11:23 And Serug lived after he begat Nahor two hundred years, and begat sons and daughters.
    Genesis 11:25 And Nahor lived after he begat Terah an hundred and nineteen years, and begat sons and daughters.
     
  12. jhwatts

    jhwatts Junior Member Supporter

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    Um. Ok. That doesn't change anything. Noah corrsponds to Genesis 5 geneology not the genealogy that occurrd during the generations of the heavens and earth. See Genesis 4 and Genesis 1:1.
     
  13. seventysevens

    seventysevens Well-Known Member

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    If this be true then it should be possible to have the names of those whom you say are the first creation as we do have the names of Noah and many others - what are their names and how would you know which Adam is which if they were both standing in front of you--even the giants are given names
    Those are the giants that are refereed to - are they who you call the first creation?

    If you speak of just evil men ...well there are many evil men and women here today
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2018
  14. Riberra

    Riberra Well-Known Member

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    Genesis 4:25 is clear that SETH was the other SEED [OFFSPRING] in replacement of Abel AFTER THAT CAIN HAVE KILLED ABEL.
    Genesis 4:25
    25 And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth. For, [said she], God hath appointed me ANOTHER SEED instead of Abel; for Cain slew him.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2018
  15. jhwatts

    jhwatts Junior Member Supporter

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    The giants are part of the 1st creation. see Ezekiel 31. These are the cedars of Lebanon also see Amos 2:9 for a comparison of size. Genesis 6:4 says "There were giants in the earth in those days;" These are the cedars of Lebanon from Eden. The first creation occurred in Eden but the second does not. Notice there is no mention of Eden in Genesis 1.

    Yes. See Genesis 4 for the corresponding names of the first creation. Also compare these names to 1 Chronicles 1 and Luke 3. This is why they are different. They are not the same as Genesis 5. This is why you see the Genesis 5 names match the names for Luke 3 and 1 Chronicles. Also notice in Jude 1 that Enoch is defined as the 7 th from Adam and that is why it matches Genesis 5 and not Genesis 4. Those in Genesis are no the same as those in Genesis 5.
     
  16. Handmaid for Jesus

    Handmaid for Jesus You can't steal my joy Supporter

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    He had another male child.
     
  17. Handmaid for Jesus

    Handmaid for Jesus You can't steal my joy Supporter

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    Our Father planted the Garden of Eden.
    Gen. 2:And the Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

    He put Adam there after He formed him.
     
  18. jhwatts

    jhwatts Junior Member Supporter

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    Yes. Exactly. He formed of the dust of earth. This before occurred Genesis 1:2. That is the first creation. The one that occurrd during the generations of the heavens and the earth. See Genesis 2:4 and Genesis 1:1.
     
  19. Handmaid for Jesus

    Handmaid for Jesus You can't steal my joy Supporter

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    That Eden was not mentioned does not mean that Eden was not there. Eden was where our Father chose to plant His garden and where He placed the man He had formed.
     
  20. jhwatts

    jhwatts Junior Member Supporter

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    Um. Ok. I'm pretty sure Eden is clearly described in Ezekiel 31 and Genesis 2:4 through 4:26. This is the first creation. God gives us direction of its location. We see it is locted near the city of Assyria. See Ezekiel 31:3 and Genesis 2:14.
     
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