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Genesis 6:1-4 and Jude 6&7 what do these passages mean? Why should we care?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Postvieww, Jun 28, 2016.

  1. seventysevens

    seventysevens Well-Known Member

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    Truly it is you that is doing the Forcing - you cannot conceive that things happen that are not explained in full detail , Fact is the bible is not and not intended to be a history of all that God has done
    Fact the collection of books found in the Protestant canon are only for the purpose of learning who God is and what he did for those created in His image and how a people can spend eternity with God
    There are mysteries in this world that happen - and some folk understand that these things happen even though there is no human explanation for them , others simply dismiss all things that have no human explanation as if they did not exist
    If there are millions of angels why do we find only a few names , do you think God created millions of angels and then refused to name them ?
    Or maybe it is not necessary to name them all and just speak of the ones that have an impact on humanity

    You have made a decision of what can or cannot happen -what can or cannot exist with nothing more to offer than your own personal point of view and you cannot prove you are correct and you cannot prove any other view is incorrect as all you have is your own personal view - without real evidence how can you prove anything
     
  2. seventysevens

    seventysevens Well-Known Member

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    Exactly , you really need to acknowledge that , and recognize that it is your pride that will not allow you to accept things that you do not have a human explanation for to exist as you choose to decide what can or cannot exist without having anything more than just your personal point of view
     
  3. Major1

    Major1 Well-Known Member

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    So then you are placing the Book of Enoch OVER the Word of God,.......correct?

    Matthew 22:31 is as clear as it can possibly be. Saints in heaven will not have physical relationships as they will be just like the angles in heaven. Angels then according to that verse are ASEXUAL and could not in any why have had sex with humans.

    So that you can use the book of Enoch to support the erroneous teaching of the Nephliian you would fall so low as to accept an OCCULCT book to support an agenda which is not Biblical.

    Now of course, just like going to Burger King, you are free to believe whatever you want to believe.
    I do think that too much Star Trek and science fiction movies has tainted the understanding of the world in general. Consider the words of...........
    2nd Thessalonians 2:!0-11...........
    " And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved."

    Then there is also 1 Timothy 4:1............
    "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils."

    What I am saying is that when the truth of God's Word is rejected then it becomes very easy to believe the deceptions of the devil.

    Now the bottom line truth is that there is no Biblical indication that the ‘sons of God’ in Genesis 6 refer to spirit beings. Jesus Christ makes it clear in Matthew 22:31 and Luke 20:28-36 that angels do not marry and consequently do not reproduce. Many people such as yourself, work and struggle to find an alternate meaning to the words that Jesus actually did say. That my friend is ADDING to the Word of God and it is strictly forbidden in Deut. 4:2..............

    "Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you."

    Having said that, in addition, if you read the Word of God you see that it clearly says what YOU are proposes, DEMONS/FALLEN ANGELS mating with humans does not fit God’s design of ‘kind after kind’ in Genesis 1:25. So by believing that they do, YOU are also rejecting once again the doctrines of reproduction that God laid down.

    Dogs do not mate with cats.
    Fish do not mate with birds.
    Lions do not mate with lizards.

    Genesis 1:25 says.......
    "And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good."

    That means ANGELS do not mate with humans!!!!!

    In addition, there is no scriptural reference in the Bible anywhere about any sort of ‘half god, half man’ as a fruit of the union in Genesis 6 or anywhere else. The reference to the enmity between ‘thy seed and her Seed’ in Genesis 2:15 is a statement to the serpent (Satan) that there will be enmity between his seed, or the way of life Satan produces, and Eve’s Seed.

    Note that ‘her Seed’ is capitalized and is recognized as the first prophecy of the coming Messiah, Jesus Christ. This statement of ‘thy seed and her Seed’ is a comparison of Satan’s way of life and God’s way of life and the constant struggle between the two ways since the Garden of Eden.

    Consider those Bible facts my friend.
     
  4. LastSeven

    LastSeven Amil Supporter

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    Do you not think the book of Enoch is true?
     
  5. SeventyOne

    SeventyOne Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, but you skipped right over my request and went into your diatribe.

    I'll ask again. When Jesus said they didn't know we would be like the angels in heaven, neither marrying nor given in marriage, He said it was partly because they didn't know the scriptures.

    Please show me in the scriptures where Jesus was referencing when He cited His reason.
     
  6. Major1

    Major1 Well-Known Member

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    NO SIR that is not the case and it is not the truth either. This has nothing to do with what I think.

    What YOU are propose comes from your IMAGINATION and what you want to see.

    The real evidence that I use is the Bible and that is all the proof anyone needs. I have made NO DECISION at all as there is none to make my brother. ALL I have done is to read the Bible and believe the Bible above and beyond what I might think.

    I just like you have read the works of Stephen King and Rod Serling and enjoy the twists and what might be. However, when I allow those ideas to replace the teachings of the Word of God I have actually entered the Twilight Zone.

    For your thinking to be acceptable YOU must remove Genesis 1:25 from your Bible as well as Matthew 22:31 and Luke 21 as well.
     
  7. LastSeven

    LastSeven Amil Supporter

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    I know this is an old thread, so this may have been discussed in depth already but I'm just reading through it, so bear with me.

    I don't believe "sons of God" could have referred to human men after the fall, because it's only in Christ that we are worthy to be called sons of God.

    John 1:12
    Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God

    Romans 8:14
    For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God.

    Galatians 3:26
    So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith,

    Philippians 2:15
    so that you may become blameless and pure, “children of God without fault in a warped and crooked generation.”

    If you're not blameless and pure then you can't be called a child of God. Therefore in reference to Genesis 6, considering the time period, those "sons of God" can only have been angels.
     
  8. Major1

    Major1 Well-Known Member

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    I skipped over because I did not want to embarrass you any further my friend.

    When you can explain Genesis 1:25 then you can then understand why your position is not acceptable.

    Just like today, some people who looked to Moses as did those Sadducee's, whose writings only they received, and just like them some today rejecting the rest.

    The Sadducees' ideas were founded on ignorance and a common and vulgar view of all spiritual things, including the resurrection. Christ, in refutation of their false views, unveiled some of the glories of the future state. Men shall not marry. They will have no such need or desire. All earthly ties and relationships shall have been outgrown, their purpose ended, and no longer needed or desirable. Like the holy angels, men shall have an existence in God, apart from all limitations and necessities of the flesh. Matthew 22:30 -

    "they will not be incorporeal, as the angels are, but then, even their bodies will be spiritual, and in some respects, like spirits; they will not stand in any need of sustenance, by eating and drinking, any more than the angels; nor will there be any such things as marriage, and procreation of children among them, any more than among angels; for they "are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection"/ John Gills Exposition of the Bible.
     
  9. Major1

    Major1 Well-Known Member

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    I must be talking to myself. I do not need a HUMAN explanation for what I believe. I have the Bibles explanation my brother, why would I need yours??

    Lets do this shall we.

    Please explain Genesis 1:25 and how that is my personal point of view?
     
  10. Major1

    Major1 Well-Known Member

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    Brother.....have you been reading what I have been saying????

    Allow me to repeat myself.......
    "there is no scriptural reference in the Bible anywhere about any sort of ‘half god, half man’ as a fruit of the union in the Bible"!!!
     
  11. SeventyOne

    SeventyOne Well-Known Member

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    You'd make a great politician, dancing around the issue without addressing it head-on. And I appreciate you not 'embarrassing' me, as if you ever had such power to do so.

    You want to deflect? Fine. But the question concerns relationship between angels and marriage, and nothing to do with breeding itself. Come back when you are ready to answer the actual question.

    Does anyone else want to actually address the question?

    When Jesus said the Sadducees didn't know we would be like the angels in heaven, neither marrying nor given in marriage, He said it was partly because they didn't know the scriptures. Please show from the scriptures where Jesus was referencing when He cited His reason. Thanks.
     
  12. seventysevens

    seventysevens Well-Known Member

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    Seems that you are refusing to answer the question that Seventy One has been asking of you
    Why are you not answering his question ?
    I have more to show you .....

    First address the question Seventy One has asked of you , please
     
  13. Postvieww

    Postvieww Newbie

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    You really missed the larger point and that is there is a lot we are not told in our cannon. The fact that two angels named in Enoch and not in our cannon only proves they are not mentioned in our cannon not that they do not exist.

    I get the context of John 21:25 my point was only that everything in not recorded.
     
  14. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    No sense in getting all torn up because some of us who study our Bible are definitely going to disagree with you about the Genesis 6 mating with angels. You cannot force... your opinion in light of the Scripture evidence that is against it.

    Jude 6-7
    6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.


    7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

    KJV

    The Greek for "first estate" (arche) can also be translated as 'principality'. Remember Paul said we don't wrestle against flesh and blood but against "principalities, ...", referring to the spirit world. These Gen.6 "sons of God" didn't keep their original assigned state. They literally left their habitation of the heavenly. This suggests that they changed something which made it possible for them to mate with flesh woman.

    The "Even as..." in verse 7 works as a conjunction continuing the subject in comparison with a strange act of fornication like sodomy that was practiced in the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah. The angels coming down to take wives of flesh women and mating with them is a fornication act of going after "strange flesh" (strange meaning 'of uncertain affinity in the Greek).

    Gen 6:9
    9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

    KJV

    The Hebrew for "perfect" (tamiym) is the same word used for the old covenant sacrifice of an unblemished animal. So the matter of Noah's genealogy is definitely about bloodline purity in that Genesis 6 chapter. That is pointing emphatically to the problem of that time being the keeping of one's bloodline pure. Just as Satan had tried to destroy Abraham and Sarah because he knew Jesus would be born through that lineage, this event shows his attack upon the continued seed of the woman from Adam, i.e., Noah and his sons.



     
  15. Major1

    Major1 Well-Known Member

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    Hello Davy. I hope you are doing well. Please try to understand that I am not forcing anything at all. I am simply reading the Scriptures and posting them as they are found in the Bible, how does that translate into "forcing".

    Now you said.............
    "This suggests that they changed something which made it possible for them to mate with flesh woman."

    That is YOUR suggestion Davy, not mine and certainly not God's. There is NO suggestion at all that Jude is talking about mating of angels and humans.

    Obviousely that choose to leave heaven as they followed Lucifer in his rebellion.
    "They left their own habitation" nowhere says they had sex with humans.

    Demons and Satan have caused a lot of problems that is for sure. but there is NO BIBLE RECORD of fallen angels having sex and producing hybrid offsprings.

    Now since you have said that, how do you explain Genesis 1:25...........
    "God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good."

    Do you think that ALL CREATURES would include humans and Angels? If NOT, why not?
    Doesn't that mean Angels would have to reproduce angels and humans would reproduce humans?

    Now if that was all there was, I might be swayed, but in 1st Corinthians 15:39,40 proves it...

    "All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds. There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another."

    This Scripture passage plainly states that men are men, animals are animals, fish are fish, birds are birds, and angels are angels. There is not one Scriptural reference which would even remotely lead us to believe that angels and humans ever had sex.

    If YOU personally want to believe that then be my guest. But you can not claim that it is Biblical as the Bible says it is not possible.

    The mighty Bible teacher, J. Vernon McGee on this matter, who states...
    And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose [Gen. 6:1–2].


    This matter of "the sons of God" and "the daughters of men" is something that has caused no end of discussion. There are a great many good men who take the position that "the sons of God" were angels. I personally cannot accept that at all. Most of my teachers taught that the sons of God were angels, and I recognize that a great many of the present-day expositors take that position.

    However, Davy, stop and think for a moment and ask yourself....... if these were good angels, they would not commit this sin, and evil angels could never be designated as "sons of God." Also, the offspring here were men; they were not monstrosities.
     
  16. Major1

    Major1 Well-Known Member

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    No sir, I did not miss your inference at all.

    I just do not agree with you as you are using it to try a validate a NON-Biblical teaching agenda that you personally have.

    You can use the dictionary or Life magazine or a book from Stephen King to support what you imagine, but you can use the Bible to do that.

    Then it is not just that they are NOT named in the Bible, it is what Enoch says they do which YOU REALLY MISSED my brother.

    Ecoch 40:9-10
    "who is set over all the diseases and all the wounds of the children of men, is Raphael: and the third, who is set over all the powers, is Gabriel: and the fourth, who is set over the repentance unto hope of those who inherit eternal life, is named Phanuel.’
    10 And these are the four angels of the Lord of Spirits and the four voices I heard in those days.

    The Bible never mentions an angel named Phanuel, let alone an angel who is set over the repentance of those who inherit eternal life, and where in the Bible is a verse which tells us that RAPHAEL IS SET OVER ALL POWERS.

    My dear brother, that is complete blasphemy which YOU are supporting!

    I know your belief but how in the world can you read those words and still hold to an agenda which is Satanic and Occultuc??????

    That statement in itself contradicts everything the Word of God teaches.

    1st Timothy 2:5 that Jesus Christ is the ONLY Mediator between God and men, not some angel named Phanuel... .........
    "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."

    Repentance is strictly between a man and Jesus Christ alone. Only Jesus died for our sins, and shed His blood to pay for them.

    Then please open your Bible and read it and then post ONE SINGLE verse which says that an angel named RAPHAEL is "set over all powers".
     
  17. seventysevens

    seventysevens Well-Known Member

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    Seems that you are refusing to answer the question that Seventy One has been asking of you
    Why are you not answering his question ?
    I have more to show you .....

    First address the question Seventy One has asked of you , please
     
  18. Major1

    Major1 Well-Known Member

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    Please read comment #568.

    The Sadducees' ideas were founded on ignorance and a common and vulgar view of all spiritual things, including the resurrection. Christ, in refutation of their false views, unveiled some of the glories of the future state. Men shall not marry. They will have no such need or desire. All earthly ties and relationships shall have been outgrown, their purpose ended, and no longer needed or desirable. Like the holy angels, men shall have an existence in God, apart from all limitations and necessities of the flesh.

    Matt. 22:30 says that
    "they will not be incorporeal, as the angels are, but then, even their bodies will be spiritual, and in some respects, like spirits; they will not stand in any need of sustenance, by eating and drinking, any more than the angels; nor will there be any such things as marriage, and procreation of children among them, any more than among angels.

    Angels are ASEXUAL and can not reproduce.
     
  19. Major1

    Major1 Well-Known Member

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    Comment #568, and has been posted twice now.
     
  20. Postvieww

    Postvieww Newbie

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    The fallen angels were called “sons of God“ because God created them not because they never sinned. Their fall did not change the fact God created them.


    Adam was called a “son of God “ and we know what happened to him. He was called a Son of God inspite of his fall,


    The term “son of God” in scripture is not always synonymous with being in right standing with God. The logic you posted above is faulty.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018
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