Genesis 6:1-4 and Jude 6&7 what do these passages mean? Why should we care?

[Major1]

Do you believe that Enoch was a pagan or superstitious ? and if so why then was God pleased so much with him for being so faithful?
Heb11
5 By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death: “He could not be found, because God had taken him away.”
For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God.

Gen5
22 After he became the father of Methuselah, Enoch walked faithfully with God 300 years and had other sons and daughters.

Since the Bible says that "Enoch walked with God and God took him" why would you spend the time asking a Bible believer if Enoch was a pagan?

I am sure your question has a relative point but it escapes me. You are welcome to help me understand if you so wish to.

 

[Major1]

People should recognize that a canon is a way that Man has decided to separate topics so that the wrong outcome does not occur - for example a book of angels was given to help people understand more about angels of God - but it did not get included in the canon because people were praying to angels which is not what people should do - we need to pray to God and not His creation -But Catholics pray to Mary a human . we consider that -
Book of Enoch is part of liturgical canon of Ethiopian and Eritrean Churches within Oriental Orthodox communion. The reason for this inclusion is because this book is included by Jews in the early first century as confirmed in Dead Sea Scrolls.Assyrian Church of the East for example use only 22 New Testament books in their New Testament liturgical canon. Eastern Orthodox to this day doesn't include Revelation in their liturgical canon, because they don't use it in liturgy. Each churches have their own liturgical canon.
Since God was pleased with Enoch it is rational and logical God did not consider the book of Enoch false -rather it is Men who chose not to include it in the American Protestant canon . Much of peoples understandings stem from what they are taught. Consider that our American government that was in the beginning on biblical principals and then some people decided to remove those biblical teachings from our nations public school systems our nation has become much more against the bible and Christianity due to the removal of the biblical teaching in our nations schools and forced out solely at the hands of those who do not want biblical teaching in public schools which has brought out that churches now have elementary schools in their churches
There is so much more than this

OK, now I see where you are coming from. YOU want the Book of Enoch to be included in the canon of Scriptures.

NOPE! There is a reason why it is not included and that is because it is OCCULTIC.

If you have read it throughy I do not know how you could ask the question or have a position of inclusion for it.

Please post the Scriptures from the KJV, ESV, ASV, NIV, Holman or any other canonized translation where we can find the angels named Raphael and Phanuel.’

Truth is that there are NO angels in the Scriptures with those names.

BUT.....the book of Enoch says that they are set over the repentance of those who inherit eternal life. That my friend is blasphemy! That statement in itself contradicts everything the Word of God teaches.

We read in 1st Timothy 2:5 that Jesus Christ is the ONLY Mediator between God and men, not some angel named Phanuel... "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."

Repentance is strictly between a man and Jesus Christ alone. Only Jesus died for our sins, and shed His blood to pay for them (1st Peter 1:18-19).

 

[Major1]

In think the topic of the fallen angels and Nephilim is so controversial because it was hidden for so long. Why anyone would hide the information imho is for control of people's minds. But Romans 12:2 lets us know that our minds need renewing.When you really understand what Lord Jesus, the last Adam really did and who we really are, you understand why the RCC kept this information hidden. The Bible says all of creation is waiting on us the son's of God to wake up and be. That is why Satan wants to keep us asleep and half awake with distractions imho.

I think it has become popular because a lot of people watch too much Star Trek instead of doing basic Bible study. That is jus my opinion.

 

[Major1]

You do know that many cults who use Holy scripture the same as you described people used Enoch don't you?

That has been taking place for the last several thousand years. One of those men was Jim Jones. Another was David Koresh.

 

[Major1]

IMHO Enoch understood what Our Father intended for man to be. Enoch walked with God much as Adam did before the fall. so no he was not pagan.

Probably more so. Adam only obeyed God for about 6 days. Enoch "walked" with God for over 300 years.

 

[Major1]

Do you believe that Enoch was a pagan or superstitious ? and if so why then was God pleased so much with him for being so faithful?
Heb11
5 By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death: “He could not be found, because God had taken him away.”
For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God.

Gen5
22 After he became the father of Methuselah, Enoch walked faithfully with God 300 years and had other sons and daughters.

It is the BOOK of Enoch that is Occultic, NOT the man Enoch who walked with God and God actually used him as an example of the Rapture.

 

[seventysevens]

OK, now I see where you are coming from. YOU want the Book of Enoch to be included in the canon of Scriptures.

NOPE! There is a reason why it is not included and that is because it is OCCULTIC.

If you have read it throughy I do not know how you could ask the question or have a position of inclusion for it.

Please post the Scriptures from the KJV, ESV, ASV, NIV, Holman or any other canonized translation where we can find the angels named Raphael and Phanuel.’

Truth is that there are NO angels in the Scriptures with those names.

BUT.....the book of Enoch says that they are set over the repentance of those who inherit eternal life. That my friend is blasphemy! That statement in itself contradicts everything the Word of God teaches.

We read in 1st Timothy 2:5 that Jesus Christ is the ONLY Mediator between God and men, not some angel named Phanuel... "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."

Repentance is strictly between a man and Jesus Christ alone. Only Jesus died for our sins, and shed His blood to pay for them (1st Peter 1:18-19).

You are jumping the gun there as you didn't even wait for a reply

 

[seventysevens]

It is the BOOK of Enoch that is Occultic, NOT the man Enoch who walked with God and God actually used him as an example of the Rapture.

You have proof of what you say ?
people who don't want it to be valid because they can't conceive of what it says will always attack what they don't want to be even when they have no proof to back it up

 

[seventysevens]

Please post the Scriptures from the KJV, ESV, ASV, NIV, Holman or any other canonized translation where we can find the angels named Raphael and Phanuel.’
Repentance is strictly between a man and Jesus Christ alone. Only Jesus died for our sins, and shed His blood to pay for them (1st Peter 1:18-19).

I did not say angels will repent as they are able to -they were not created in the image of God and Jesus did not come to save them which is why when they sin they are doomed to the pit for eternity .
Book of Enoch is part of liturgical canon of Ethiopian and Eritrean Churches within Oriental Orthodox communion. The reason for this inclusion is because this book is included by Jews in the early first century as confirmed in Dead Sea Scrolls.Assyrian Church of the East

Did you know that the story of Genesis was told in an oratory form for generations before it was written down ?

 

[Major1]

I did not say angels will repent as they are able to -they were not created in the image of God and Jesus did not come to save them which is why when they sin they are doomed to the pit for eternity .
Book of Enoch is part of liturgical canon of Ethiopian and Eritrean Churches within Oriental Orthodox communion. The reason for this inclusion is because this book is included by Jews in the early first century as confirmed in Dead Sea Scrolls.Assyrian Church of the East

Did you know that the story of Genesis was told in an oratory form for generations before it was written down ?

I must admit that I do not know where you are coming from neither do I know where you are trying to go with your comments.

I do know this. The Bible has come under attack by Christians an atheists alike recently.

There is abundant biblical and extra-biblical evidence that Moses wrote the Pentateuch during the wilderness wanderings after the Jews left their slavery in Egypt and before they entered the Promised Land (about 1445–1405 BC). Contrary to the liberal theologians and other skeptics, it was not written after the Jews returned from exile in Babylon (ca. 500 BC). Christians who believe Moses wrote the Pentateuch do not need to feel intellectually intimidated. It is the enemies of the truth of God that are failing to think carefully and face the facts honestly.

As a prophet of God, Moses wrote under divine inspiration, guaranteeing the complete accuracy and absolute authority of his writings. Those writings were endorsed by Jesus and the New Testament apostles, who based their teaching and the truth of the gospel on the truths revealed in the books of Moses, including the truths about a literal six-day creation about 6000 years ago, the Curse on the whole creation when Adam sinned, and the judgment of the global, catastrophic Flood at the time of Noah.

The attack on the Mosaic authorship of the Pentateuch is nothing less than an attack on the veracity, reliability, and authority of the Word of Almighty God. Christians should believe God, rather than the fallible, sinful skeptics inside and outside the church who, in their intellectual arrogance, are consciously or unconsciously trying to undermine the Word so that they can justify in their own minds (but not before God) their rebellion against God.

As Paul says in Romans 3:4,"Let God be true and every man a liar."

As I stated before, To the Biblically ignorant reader, the Book of Enoch might have an appeal; but to a believer grounded in the Scriptures, the Book of Enoch is packed full of heresy.

 

[Major1]

You have proof of what you say ?
people who don't want it to be valid because they can't conceive of what it says will always attack what they don't want to be even when they have no proof to back it up

YES! I have a copy right here. I HAVE READ IT my friend......Have you read it???

Book of Enoch 40:90-10............
"seen and whose words I have heard and written down?’ And he said to me: ‘This first is Michael, the merciful and long-suffering: and the second, who is set over all the diseases and all the wounds of the children of men, is Raphael: and the third, who is set over all the powers, is Gabriel: and the fourth, who is set over the repentance unto hope of those who inherit eternal life, is named Phanuel.’
10 And these are the four angels of the Lord of Spirits and the four voices I heard in those days. "


Here's chapter 48:1-3...
"And in that place I saw the fountain of righteousness Which was inexhaustible: And around it were many fountains of wisdom: And all the thirsty drank of them, And were filled with wisdom, And their dwellings were with the righteous and holy and elect. And at that hour that Son of Man was named In the presence of the Lord of Spirits, And his name before the Head of Days. Yea, before the sun and the signs were created, Before the stars of the heaven were made, His name was named before the Lord of Spirits."

Was the Son of Man named? When was Jesus named in Heaven? This is an attack on the deity of Jesus. Jesus Himself claimed in Revelation 1:8........
"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty."

Jesus is Eternal, without beginning or end. Head of Days? Lord of Spirits? These terms are NOT found in the Bible. IF the Book of Enoch were valid, composing well over 100 chapters, there should be numerous New Testament references to it; but there aren't. Although some people claim that the Bible quotes the Book of Enoch over 100 times, this is simply not true. Just as the Qur'an, the Book of Enoch borrows from the Word of God. In sharp contrast to the Book of Enoch, the New Testament often quotes the Book of Genesis.

Do you want to continue????

 

[Major1]

You are jumping the gun there as you didn't even wait for a reply

Yes I did.......but it did not change anything.

 

[seventysevens]

I must admit that I do not know where you are coming from neither do I know where you are trying to go with your comments.

.

Simple I decided rather than just continue accepting what I have always been "told" I would look into it, there are a lot of strange phenomenon that happen in our world that cannot be explained in normal scientific terms or established religious terms - just as there are topics within scripture like the rapture that many have an opinion on don't have a clarified understanding of it so they hop on board to what is 'popular' without studying it
so when I ask them to give their own personal understanding of why there will be a rapture and not speak of when - they cannot give an understanding as all they have is following the popular teaching of when simply because they did not study the topic but have a strong opinion on it

 

[seventysevens]

Please post the Scriptures from the KJV, ESV, ASV, NIV, Holman or any other canonized translation where we can find the angels named Raphael and Phanuel.’

canonized Book of Tobit
6 Then Raphael called the two of them privately and said to them, “Bless God and acknowledge him in the presence of all the living for the good things he has done for you. Bless and sing praise to his name. With fitting honor declare to all people the deeds of God. Do not be slow to acknowledge him. 7 It is good to conceal the secret of a king, but to acknowledge and reveal the works of God, and with fitting honor to acknowledge him. Do good and evil will not overtake you. 8 Prayer with fasting is good, but better than both is almsgiving with righteousness. A little with righteousness is better than wealth with wrongdoing. It is better to give alms than to lay up gold. 9 For almsgiving saves from death and purges away every sin. Those who give alms will enjoy a full life, 10 but those who commit sin and do wrong are their own worst enemies.

12 So now when you and Sarah prayed, it was I who brought and read the record of your prayer before the glory of the Lord, and likewise whenever you would bury the dead. 13 And that time when you did not hesitate to get up and leave your dinner to go and bury the dead, 14 I was sent to you to test you. And at the same time God sent me to heal you and Sarah your daughter-in-law. 15 I am Raphael, one of the seven angels who stand ready and enter before the glory of the Lord.”

 

[seventysevens]

YES! I have a copy right here. I HAVE READ IT my friend......Have you read it???

Book of Enoch 40:90-10............
"seen and whose words I have heard and written down?’ And he said to me: ‘This first is Michael, the merciful and long-suffering: and the second, who is set over all the diseases and all the wounds of the children of men, is Raphael: and the third, who is set over all the powers, is Gabriel: and the fourth, who is set over the repentance unto hope of those who inherit eternal life, is named Phanuel.’
10 And these are the four angels of the Lord of Spirits and the four voices I heard in those days. "


Here's chapter 48:1-3...
"And in that place I saw the fountain of righteousness Which was inexhaustible: And around it were many fountains of wisdom: And all the thirsty drank of them, And were filled with wisdom, And their dwellings were with the righteous and holy and elect. And at that hour that Son of Man was named In the presence of the Lord of Spirits, And his name before the Head of Days. Yea, before the sun and the signs were created, Before the stars of the heaven were made, His name was named before the Lord of Spirits."

Was the Son of Man named? When was Jesus named in Heaven? This is an attack on the deity of Jesus. Jesus Himself claimed in Revelation 1:8........
"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty."

Jesus is Eternal, without beginning or end. Head of Days? Lord of Spirits? These terms are NOT found in the Bible. IF the Book of Enoch were valid, composing well over 100 chapters, there should be numerous New Testament references to it; but there aren't. Although some people claim that the Bible quotes the Book of Enoch over 100 times, this is simply not true. Just as the Qur'an, the Book of Enoch borrows from the Word of God. In sharp contrast to the Book of Enoch, the New Testament often quotes the Book of Genesis.

Do you want to continue????

Chapter 48 is listed as a parable making comparisons

 

[Major1]

Simple I decided rather than just continue accepting what I have always been "told" I would look into it, there are a lot of strange phenomenon that happen in our world that cannot be explained in normal scientific terms or established religious terms - just as there are topics within scripture like the rapture that many have an opinion on don't have a clarified understanding of it so they hop on board to what is 'popular' without studying it
so when I ask them to give their own personal understanding of why there will be a rapture and not speak of when - they cannot give an understanding as all they have is following the popular teaching of when simply because they did not study the topic but have a strong opinion on it

My dear friend, there are not things in Scripture which can not be explained. There is Bible study where all things are found to be true. That is your opinion but it is not Bible theology.

This is not a thread on the Rapture. If you care to start one, please send me the link and I will be glad to speak to you about it on a Biblical level.

Now whether you accept or reject is your choice.

Now as for the book of Enoch being used to explain Scriptures in Genesis, that is just not possible or acceptable as the book of Enoch itself is The reason why the early church fathers and the King James Bible translators rejected the Book of Enoch as inspired of God, WASN'T to hide the truth; BUT, because it isn't the truth. The Book of Enoch is a fraud, an imposter, and straight from Hell.

 

[seventysevens]

Chapter 37-67 are listed as parables making comparisons

 

[Major1]

Chapter 48 is listed as a parable making comparisons

And what difference do you think that makes my friend. It says what it says and whether it is a parable or not is not the point.

By the way, you do know that a arable never uses proper names.....right" Therefore Chapter 48 is NOT a parable my friend.

 

[seventysevens]

My dear friend, there are not things in Scripture which can not be explained. There is Bible study where all things are found to be true. That is your opinion but it is not Bible theology.

This is not a thread on the Rapture. If you care to start one, please send me the link and I will be glad to speak to you about it on a Biblical level.

Now whether you accept or reject is your choice.

Now as for the book of Enoch being used to explain Scriptures in Genesis, that is just not possible or acceptable as the book of Enoch itself is The reason why the early church fathers and the King James Bible translators rejected the Book of Enoch as inspired of God, WASN'T to hide the truth; BUT, because it isn't the truth. The Book of Enoch is a fraud, an imposter, and straight from Hell.

I had thought based on previous conversations that you were more open minded , but you are not willing to even consider things or explore things outside what you have been taught . I am not discussing the rapture simply demonstrating that people sometimes form an opinion without ALL the facts then insist they are right and anyone else who is not in alignment with their thoughts and views are not correct

 

[Major1]

Trying to force the book of Enoch because you think it speaks in parables is not theologically acceptable and it is never proper exegesis.