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Genesis 6:1-4 and Jude 6&7 what do these passages mean? Why should we care?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Postvieww, Jun 28, 2016.

  1. Major1

    Major1 Well-Known Member

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    We have had this problem before. You tend to list a whole series of comments which do not allow for proper responces to each one. AGAIN, if you would like to shorten your post and deal with one or two elements I would be glad to respond to you.

    I will however speak to your first two opinions.

    #1.
    You said............
    Opinion. The text says “the angels of God in heaven” do not marry. It does not address fallen angels and what they are capable of. It only says angels of God in heaven do no. You have stated your opinion on what you believe the scripture means not what it actually says

    If you choose to believe that then wonderful. I am glad that you have done some study on this. I however cannot agree with you with all due respect to you.

    Jesus specifically said in Matt. 22:30 ......“As the angels of God in heaven”. You see, CONTEXTUALLY speaking, the Sadducees of that day did not believe in angels, so here Jesus was exposing another of their false beliefs. Angels are deathless creatures who do not propagate and therefore have no need for marriage. “In the resurrection,” the saints will have those same characteristics.

    Jesus then explained that “in the resurrection” men do not “marry” but are asexual “as the angels.” The infantile illustration of the Sadducees shows that they had no confidence in the power of a glorious resurrection to a new life. They thought that a resurrection would be the some kind of life as on earth.

    Jesus teaches neither that glorified men become angels, nor that all earthly family relationships are lost in heaven. All resurrected believers will be in a state of perfect glorification and fellowship but neither of those positions have physical sexual relations as its root.

    Angels are ministering spirits, not flesh and blood beings like here on this earth. I am not saying we shall not have a body. We shall have a heavenly body which changed in the twinkling of an eye.

    Angels are spirit beings and do not marry. Marriage is an earthly relationship and has no part in heaven. It is a function of the earth to populate the earth. Without death being in the picture, there is no need for birth. Mankind will be an eternal being in heaven.

    #2.
    You then said.............
    More opinion and speculation. You really don’t know what fallen angels are capable of. You have no text other than the one above to base that on and that is your opinion. Jude 6a says: And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation. Can you prove from scripture that does don’t involve leaving the heavenly spiritual realm and entering the carnal, natural realm. Angels of God can look just like men and can appear in physical form so we cannot tell the difference.

    No, it is not my opinion at all. It is however the teaching of the Word of God my brother.

    In Luke 24:37–43 the God-Man, the Lord Jesus Christ said...............
    But they were startled and frightened and thought that they were seeing a spirit. And He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts? See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.” And when He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet. While they still could not believe it because of their joy and amazement, He said to them, “Have you anything here to eat?” They gave Him a piece of a broiled fish; and He took it and ate it before them.

    Your argument against this angelic view in Matt. 22:30 was that angels didn’t marry in heaven according to Jesus. This has been responded to many times and it is your position that this is referring to angels in heaven, not fallen angels.

    So, the option then is left open that fallen angels may very well mate with humans even though Jesus has said that they are not flesh and bone but are spirits. However, a new problem now arises for YOU and those who accept that kind of thinking.

    Moses points out that the "sons of God" (Human line from Seth) took wives (ishshah wife/women) in Genesis 6:2. When we actually do the study and stay away from internet web sites we find that never once is there found a verse in the Bible where wife, wives, husband, husbands, or marriage was anything other than between a human male and female. If these were marriages between fallen angels and women, then it opens up the possibility of marriages that are not limited to man and woman, when the Bible is clear on this subject.
     
  2. Major1

    Major1 Well-Known Member

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    I would recommend that you stop watching Star Trek movies and do more Bible study instead.
     
  3. Handmaid for Jesus

    Handmaid for Jesus You can't steal my joy Supporter

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    You need to read the books of Genesis, Jude, and Enoch.
     
  4. Major1

    Major1 Well-Known Member

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    I have actually produced several works on Genesis and Jude but Enoch is a book of the Occult and has nothing what so ever to do with Biblical truth and is not found in the canon of Scriptures.

    The Catholic religion accepts the Apocrypha only because the book of Macabees has one verse which supports praying to the dead and they have based their doctrine of Purgatory on that verse.
     
  5. Handmaid for Jesus

    Handmaid for Jesus You can't steal my joy Supporter

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    Your own logic disagrees with your position about the fallen angels. You say do not marry, not cannot marry. Big difference. You say marriage is an earthly estate. Exactly so,the angels left their heavenly habitation and lusted after earthly women. Remember the fallen ones rebelled. No they have no part in Heaven, that is why they are bound in chains in the Earth, awaiting the lake of fire. Their desire was to populate Earth with their offspring, the Nephilim as reported in scripture, which you deny. And whether you believe it or not makes no difference.
     
  6. Riberra

    Riberra Well-Known Member

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    The Bible tell us that angels have a physical body [they are not just spirits as you wrongly believe]and they can EAT OUR FOODS
    Genesis 19
    1 And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground;

    2 And he said, Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you, into your servant's house, and tarry all night, and wash your feet, and ye shall rise up early, and go on your ways. And they said, Nay; but we will abide in the street all night.

    3 And he pressed upon them greatly; and they turned in unto him, and entered into his house; and he made them a feast, and did bake unleavened bread, and they did eat.


    On the other hand the bible tell us also that human can eat angels' food

    Psalms 78:24-25 KJV
    Man did eat angels' food: he sent them meat to the full.

    -MANNA is angel's food.-
    Do you get it ? Angels need to eat manna for the subsistence of their body even if they were created immortal by God ...

    so it will be for the saved humans when we will receive immortality.
    Revelation 22
    22 And he showed me a river of water of life, bright as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb, 2 in the midst of the street thereof. And on this side of the river and on that was THE TREE OF LIFE, bearing twelve [manner of] fruits, yielding its fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

    THE TREE OF LIFE was also present in the Garden Of Eden...
    BECAUSE Adam and Eve lost the access to the tree of life they became mortal....
    Genesis 3
    22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

    23 Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

    24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2017
  7. Major1

    Major1 Well-Known Member

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    You do know that eating is not the same as sexual intercourse?

    You said...........
    " [they are not just spirits as you wrongly believe]".

    Now when did I say that my friend?????

    Please look at my comments and you will quickly see that it was Jesus Christ the Lord who said that.
    I just agreed with Him and you will have to send Him an e-mail to tell Him that He is wrong.

    In Luke 24:37–43 the God-Man, the Lord Jesus Christ said...............
    But they were startled and frightened and thought that they were seeing a spirit. And He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts? See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.” And when He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet. While they still could not believe it because of their joy and amazement, He said to them, “Have you anything here to eat?” They gave Him a piece of a broiled fish; and He took it and ate it before them.
     
  8. Major1

    Major1 Well-Known Member

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    Why do you guys say MY Logic. Did you not read the Scriptures posted for you. Which ones had MAJOR written on it?

    You are playing word games so as to make the Scriptures fit what you want them to say.

    "Do not marry, cannot marry." If you think that to be the case then fine with me. All I did was post what God in the flesh said. You are going to have to argue with Him, not me.

    Personnaly I cannot accept the popular view that fallen angels had sexual relations with earthly women, because, if these were good angels, they would not commit this sin, and evil angels could never be designated as "sons of God." Also, as we learned, the Bible never specifies that the "giants" were the offspring of such extraterrestrial relations.

    But again, please feel free to believe as you wish and call the God-man and tell Him that He was wrong.
     
  9. Riberra

    Riberra Well-Known Member

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    There is nothing in the text saying that a spirit is an angel ... however the spirits of the NEPHILIM are the DEMONIC SPIRITS who sometimes are taking possession of some Humans as reported in the Bible....and also to this day.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2017
  10. Handmaid for Jesus

    Handmaid for Jesus You can't steal my joy Supporter

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    No, this is what you yourself are doing. LOL. There is a word for that. it is called projection.
    We call it your logic because it is.
    So you never read where the sons of God presented themselves before our Father and Satan was one among them? Read Job. Angels rebelled with Satan. Angels sinned. But I know your mind cannot accept the truth. It has no bearing on your salvation though. :)
    I don't have to argue with Him. He said it would be like it was in Genesis 6 when He returns. I believe Him.
     
  11. Major1

    Major1 Well-Known Member

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    Well, a couple of thoughts come to mind.

    The "sons of God " in Job were angels my dear friend. We know that because the location is Heaven.

    The "Sons of God" in Genesis 6 are humans. We know that because the location is the Earth.

    Then let me ask you this question. Why is “sons of God” in Hebrew suddenly off-limits to refer to humans when God has already used similar formats for calling godly men by such a godly title? It seems unlikely that God would put fallen angels in a class with un-fallen angels, Israelites (God’s chosen people), and Christians (the bride of Christ).

    What reason do you think would prompt God so that He would want confusion with fallen angels with his bride! There are several Scriptures that point out that men can be children of God, such as Psalm 73:15 and Deuteronomy 32:5. Thus God-fearing men can also rightly be called sons of God.
     
  12. Handmaid for Jesus

    Handmaid for Jesus You can't steal my joy Supporter

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    So you deny the scripture teaching that angels visited Earth? Evidently you have not studied scripture about angel activity on Earth.
    I addressed this in post #388. You chose to ignore it. But that suits me. The scripture you referred to do not call men sons of God.

    Show scripture where men after Adam fell were called son of God. Not until Lord Jesus was a man ,after Adam's fall, called Son of God.
     
  13. Major1

    Major1 Well-Known Member

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    You said......
    "So you deny the scripture teaching that angels visited Earth? Evidently you have not studied scripture about angel activity on Earth."

    Obviously I did not say that. That is YOU wanting to believe that is what I said.

    I said that the "Sons of God" seen in Job 1 were angels. They are seen with God and God is in heaven so the answer is that in that verse they are angels.

    I then said that the "Sons of God" in Genesis are humans as the location in those verses are earthly.

    Obviousely, when anyone reads the Bible they can not help but to see and understand that angels did visit and minister humans, HOWEVER that does not mean that they had sexual intercourse with humans.

    As for #388, I really did not see any reason to respond to your comment. Your theology is all messed up it seems from the floor up and when that happens it manifests itself in the kind of thinking you are showing.

    Just as an example you said that Adam was no longer a Son of God after he sinned.

    Where in the Scriptures did you find that my child?????

    If what you said is true, then what about YOU??? When you used Gods name in vain, did you stop being a child of God?

    When you lied, did you stop being a child of God?
     
  14. Major1

    Major1 Well-Known Member

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    Daniel 7:13 uses the term "one like a son of man" when describing a person coming in glory as God on the clouds, to stress that the Messiah is both divine and human.

    Ezekiel's uses the words of "son of man." when God calls Ezekiel "son of man," it is a way of saying he is completely a man, a mere human creature in contrast to the Creator. So the term "son of man" in Ezekiel stresses Ezekiel's humility in contrast to God's glory.

    1 Chronicles 17:13 ..............
    "I will be his father and he shall be My son; and I will not take My lovingkindness away from him, as I took it from him who was before you."

    Jeremiah 31:20 ............
    "Is Ephraim My dear son? Is he a delightful child? Indeed, as often as I have spoken against him, I certainly still remember him; Therefore My heart yearns for him; I will surely have mercy on him," declares the LORD.

    1 Chronicles 22:10 ...........
    'He shall build a house for My name, and he shall be My son and I will be his father; and I will establish the throne of his kingdom over Israel forever.'

    1 Chronicles 28:6 ..........
    "He said to me, 'Your son Solomon is the one who shall build My house and My courts; for I have chosen him to be a son to Me, and I will be a father to him.

    If you were so wrong on your theology on just this one subject, does it not call into
    question your theology on the Nephellim?
     
  15. Handmaid for Jesus

    Handmaid for Jesus You can't steal my joy Supporter

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    @Major1 ok, you can stop trolling me. You do not rightly divide the word so I have nothing else to say to you.
     
  16. Major1

    Major1 Well-Known Member

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    Lets be clear here. I have only responded to you when you have posted something TO ME. For you to think am "trolling" you means that you believe that your comments and opinion are very important. I am ROFL!!!!!

    Such as this comment right here. IF you do not want to read the truth of Gods Word as I post it then do not post anything for me to respond to.

    So then, as of this moment we are done!
     
  17. Handmaid for Jesus

    Handmaid for Jesus You can't steal my joy Supporter

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    OK, great! But you have no idea what is on my mind. But we are clear. be blessed.^_^
     
  18. Postvieww

    Postvieww Newbie

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    Updated: Sethite view is false!

    ISV International Standard Version.

    Genesis 4:26 ISV Seth also fathered a son, whom he named Enosh. At that time, profaning the name of the Lord began.

    Genesis 4:26 KJV And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the Lord.

    The Hebrew words translated, men, call, name and Lord in Gen 4:26 KJV is:

    Men ?? profane2490 call 7121l name 8034 Lord 3068, Jehovah

    In strong’s concordance if you look up the word men the first entry is Genesis 6:1 no mention of Gen. 4:26

    The word men is not found in the original Hebrew text of Genesis 4:26.



    Phrase in Hebrew “chalal qara shem yhwh”
    Profane call name name of God

    An accurate translation would be: Men defiled the name of God


    Strongs 2490 chalal Profane


    7121- quara call

    Phrase in Hebrew “chalal qara shem yhwh”
    Profane call name name of God

    Men defiled the name of God.


    Leviticus 19:12 And ye shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the Lord.


    Lev. 18:21, 20:3 , 21:4,6,9,12,15,23 Lev 22:2,9,15,32 Ne 13:17 Ezk. 23:39, 24:21 Amos 2:7


    Exodus 6: 3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name Jehovah was I not known to them.


    Interlinear Bible - Greek and Hebrew with Concordance


    Qar’


    Strong's Number: 07121 Browse Lexicon

    Original Word Word Origin

    arq a primitive root [rather identical with (07122) - through the idea of accosting a person met]



    Transliterated Word TDNT Entry

    Qara' TWOT – 2063



    Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech

    kaw-raw' Verb





    Definition



    to call, call out, recite, read, cry out, proclaim

    (Qal)

    to call, cry, utter a loud sound

    to call unto, cry (for help), call (with name of God)

    to proclaim

    to read aloud, read (to oneself), read

    to summon, invite, call for, call and commission, appoint, call and endow

    to call, name, give name to, call by

    (Niphal)

    to call oneself

    to be called, be proclaimed, be read aloud, be summoned, be named

    (Pual) to be called, be named, be called out, be chosen



    King James Word Usage - Total: 735

    call 528, cried 98, read 38, proclaim 36, named 7, guests 4, invited 3, gave 3, renowned 3, bidden 2, preach 2, miscellaneous 11



    On Biblestudytools.com Interlinear Bible - Greek and Hebrew with Concordance



    Conclusion, using Genesis 4:26 as support of the Sethite view, that “the sons of God” were descendants of Seth that began to call on the name of the Lord and were Godly men and not created beings it totally without merit and is false doctrine.

    There is no hint there was a Godly revival at the time of Genesis 4:26, sure there were some Godly men but they all died before the flood save Noah and his family. Evil ruled the day, not calling on the name of the Lord.

    If Genesis 4:26 tells us there was a Godly revival through the line of Seth it was short lived and Noah was the only descendant of Seth Found worthy to be saved from the flood.

    The Sethite view is a house of cards that begins to collapse under its own weight.

    1. If the “sons of God” are merely godly decendants of Seth how did a union between the sons of Seth and the daughters of Cain produce giants.

    2. Many try to explain away the giants by natural means, by claiming they were just a genetic anomaly.

    3. Now we are left with the question what does Godliness or the lack there of have to do with DNA? The Giants were tied to the ungodly union in Genesis 6:4

    4. How does one scripturally tie the “sons of God “in Genesis 6 to the descendants of Seth?

    5 How does one scripturally tie the daughters of men to the descendants of Cain?

    6. There are real giants with six fingers and toes described in scripture what is a reasonable explanation for their existence?

    7. Why did God want the giant clans destroyed from the face of the earth, men, women, children and sometimes even the animals?

    The Sethite view is built on assumption not scriptural facts.


    The phrase “sons of God” is unique in the Old Testament, it always refers to created beings, angels.

    Trying to dilute this fact by mixing in other phrases like “1 Chronicles 17:13 "I will be his father and he shall be My son” has no bearing on the topic at hand.

    This cannot be used to contradict Job 1:6 nor can it be used to contradict Genesis 6:2.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2017
  19. Postvieww

    Postvieww Newbie

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    Sure we can do that , but I believe the post you complain about was a point by point response to your post.
     
  20. Postvieww

    Postvieww Newbie

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    I totally understand your line of thinking here, but I still maintain you are basing most of this on assumption not scriptural fact.


    I do not try to dispute Hebrews 1:14. I do dispute how you try to use that to imply angels have no physical form and are something akin to our concept of a ghost.


    Look at the physical characteristic angels had in Genesis 19 and elsewhere in scripture..


    My disagreement with your stance is that neither you nor I really know what physical characteristics angels can exhibit.


    Using Luke 24:39 to imply angels have no physical form doesn’t work for me. The context of Luke 24:39 is Jesus’s physical form, the context of Hebrews 1:14 is not. Hebrews speaks to angels purpose to mankind not how they can or cannot physically manifest themselves.


    So when you say that absolutely fallen angels do not have the capability to have intercourse because angels of God do not marry, I believe you have stepped beyond specific knowledge given us in scripture.


    I have no idea what all of the physical limits are on angels created by God fallen or otherwise and I do not believe you do either.


    Again we can just agree to disagree!
     
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