Genesis 6:1-4 and Jude 6&7 what do these passages mean? Why should we care?

[Yahu_]

Those are the ONLY fallen angels we are ever told of we know there was a 2nd corruption of Nephilim after the flood which accounts for the 2nd group of 4.

This is a pretty big assumption on your part, can you make the connection with scripture?

Yes, I posted a brief explanation in the thread 'Sex with angels' about one specific reference. It requires an indepth study of the ancient paganism and its source. It helps greatly to understand the different symbols used in scripture for different pagan deities. An extensive study of the meanings of names is also require. There is a wealth of information about the ancient paganism in the place names if you translate all of them from the book of Joshua, the place names in the land of Canaan. Most city names are references to the pagan gods they followed or attributes or symbols of those deities. The OT prophets were in constant conflict with the ancient paganism that the people mixed with Judaism.

It also requires an understanding from things like the Baal Cycle translated from the Canaanite religious texts and cuneiform translations of Sumerian , Babylonian, Syrian and Urgaric religious texts so references in scripture can be understood.

The Babylonian texts are clear in their references to the Apkallu that taught men before the flood and 4 of them that were around after the flood that left their knowledge in the Babylonian civilization.

Here is a simple example. In Eze 8, Ezekiel is given a vision of the corruption of pagan worship conducted at Yahweh's temple complex. Their are references to idols, weeping for Tammuz. You have to know who Tammuz is. But the WORST offense was the men in the courtyard bowing to the rising sun in sun god worship.

Eze 8:15 Then said he unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations than these.
16 And he brought me into the inner court of the LORD’S house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east.

Sun god worship was the MOST offensive. You have to understand who the ancient pagan sun god was and his origin. It helps to know which deities among the different people's were the sun god in their culture. Molech (shameful king), Melqart (king of the city - in Tire), Malcham, Milcom, On, Rah, Shemesh, Baalzebub and Apollo were all sun gods in different cultures. Even the title Lucifer is a reference to a Latin epithet of the sun god meaning 'light bringer' or 'shining one'.

In the thread 'sex with angels' I explain the reference to the pagan high places of the Baalim where Balak took Balaam to curse Israel 3 times. The 'field of Zophim (Watchers)' on Mt Pisgah is a reference that the pagan gods were from Watchers having offspring via the goddess Asherah. You have to study out the Canaanite pantheon to know who Asherah was, the pagan 'mother earth' who is also referenced in scripture as just 'Erets/earth' in many places. Asherah is the mother of the pagan sun god. She has a title of 'she who treads upon the sea' in the Canaanite texts but is an 'earth goddess'. This reference confuses most scholars. Even the Babylonian reference to the Anunaki is a reference to the offspring of Anu (heavens) and Ki (earth) or angel and woman. In the Greek texts she is called by the names Leto and Gaia. In the Canaanite texts, the top level of authority over mankind is El and his wife Asherah and their 70 offspring and it is a reference not to Yah but to Noah, his wife and the 70 national founding fathers. Asherah was Noah's wife, mother of all mankind AND of two of the gods Molech and Ashtoreth the divine twins.

In Job 38, the 'Morning/Dayspring' (Shachar) is referenced as leading the son of God in song at the laying of the foundation of the earth then brings forth the wicked from the 'skirts of the earth'. Lucifer is called 'ben Shachar', the son of this angel. Shachar is also another Canaanite deity title. He is Anu of the Babylonians, Hadad/Adad (the thunderer) of the Syrians and Zeus of the Greeks.

Peter equates the pre-flood angels that sinned with the Titans of Greek myth as being bound in Tartarus. In the Greek understanding the four Olympians helped imprison the Titans in the previous age. They were on the side of Yah in that conflict against the Watchers but later had offspring themselves with mankind. They are the 4 post-flood Apkallu of the Babylonians, the divine rivers (mighty waters) that watered Eden, the four RIVERS referenced in Genesis that 'watered the garden' and led by Euphrates (Fruitfulness) and bound at Euphrates. They were the four angels that were stationed in Eden that kept man out, the four pillars of heaven. Of course their Greek names are more familiar to us as Zeus, Poisidon, Hades and Hera. In the Babylonian 3 of the Apkallu were full blooded but one was 2/3s Apkallu, or of lesser status, ie female.

Even a quote by Nebuchadnezzar in the Babylonian texts equates Adad (the thunderer, god of lightning) and his son Shemesh (sun god) as being the 'adudicators' the satans among the gods. And lets not forget the reference of Satan being cast down 'as lightning'. That is a reference to the 'old Satan' being cast down who is now replaced by his son with the title of Satan. The 'OLD Serpent' is a reference to the OT Cockatrice, not the serpent in the garden. There are several OT dragons, the cockatrice, the leviathan and the bohemoth, the dragon of the sky, of the sea and of the earth. The demonic realms in scripture are divided into four realms, the sky/air, the sea, the earth and sheol with the four winds/spirits having authority over those realms with Baal over the air, Ashtoreth (moon goddess) over sea, Asherah (mother earth) over earth and Molech (sun god) over sheol.

We also have the 'seat of Satan' in Pergamos was the major alter of Zeus now in the museum in Berlin and Revelation specifically names Apollo as 'king of the abyss'. Even one of the references in scripture in a name meaning references the 'children of Lightning'.

That is just a few examples. It also helps to study out 'waters' in scripture and how in psalms angelic beings are also called 'waters above'. It would take writing a book to explain all the different scriptural references scattered all over scripture.

For example, Isa 57 is a passage about the Baalim worship conducted outside Jerusalem in the grove and the sacrifice of the children to Molech in the valley below, the valley of Hinnom. Verse 9 (which has a vowel pointing error used in most translations) is a reference to Molech (not king, but shameful king) and sacrifices conducted to summon demonic messengers in ritual witchcraft to be sent on assignment and calls it 'debasing thyself unto Sheol'. It equates Molech worship with direct Satan worship. So does the passage in Eze 8 showing that sun god worship is the WORST offense of the paganistic corruption of Ezekiel's day.

 

[Yahu_]

Yahu said:

BTW, in the book of Enoch, the serpent in the garden of Eden is one of those angels bound in prison so if you are holding to the book of Enoch, that serpent wasn't who we know of as Satan but it equates them all as 'satans'.

Chapter and verse please?

2 Enoch 40
And after that I saw thousands of thousands and ten thousand times ten thousand, I saw a multitude beyond number and reckoning, who stood before the Lord of Spirits. And on the four sides of the Lord of Spirits I saw four presences, different from those that sleep not, and I learnt their names: for the angel that went with me made known to me their names, and showed me all the hidden things. And I heard the voices of those four presences as they uttered praises before the Lord of glory. The first voice blesses the Lord of Spirits for ever and ever. And the second voice I heard blessing the Elect One and the elect ones who hang upon the Lord of Spirits. And the third voice I heard pray and intercede for those who dwell on the earth and supplicate in the name of the Lord of Spirits. And I heard the fourth voice fending off the Satans and forbidding them to come before the Lord of Spirits to accuse them who dwell on the earth.

Chapter 65
And in those days Noah saw the earth that it had sunk down and its destruction was nigh. And he arose from thence and went to the ends of the earth, and cried aloud to his grandfather Enoch: and Noah said three times with an embittered voice: Hear me, hear me, hear me.’ And I said unto him: ‘Tell me what it is that is falling out on the earth that the earth is in such evil plight and shaken, lest perchance I shall perish with it?’ And thereupon there was a great commotion, on the earth, and a voice was heard from heaven, and I fell on my face. And Enoch my grandfather came and stood by me, and said unto me: ‘Why hast thou cried unto me with a bitter cry and weeping And a command has gone forth from the presence of the Lord concerning those who dwell on the earth that their ruin is accomplished because they have learnt all the secrets of the angels, and all the violence of the Satans, and all their powers — the most secret ones — and all the power of those who practice sorcery, and the power of witchcraft, and the power of those who make molten images for the whole earth: And how silver is produced from the dust of the earth, and how soft metal originates in the earth. For lead and tin are not produced from the earth like the first: it is a fountain that produces them, and an angel stands therein, and that angel is pre-eminent.’ ...

Chapter 69
And after this judgement they shall terrify and make them to tremble because they have shown this to those who dwell on the earth. And behold the names of those angels [and these are their names: the first of them is Samjaza, the second Artaqifa, and the third Armen, the fourth Kokabel, the fifth Turael, the sixth Rumjal, the seventh Danjal, the eighth Neqael, the ninth Baraqel, the tenth Azazel, the eleventh Armaros, the twelfth Batarjal, the thirteenth Busasejal, the fourteenth Hananel, the fifteenth Turel, and the sixteenth Simapesiel, the seventeenth Jetrel, the eighteenth Tumael, the nineteenth Turel, the twentieth Rumael, the twenty-first Azazel. And these are the chiefs of their angels and their names, and their chief ones over hundreds and over fifties and over tens]. The name of the first Jeqon: that is, the one who led astray [all] the sons of God, and brought them down to the earth, and led them astray through the daughters of men. And the second was named Asbeel: he imparted to the holy sons of God evil counsel, and led them astray so that they defiled their bodies with the daughters of men. And the third was named Gadreel: he it is who showed the children of men all the blows of death, and he led astray Eve, and showed [the weapons of death to the sons of men] the shield and the coat of mail, and the sword for battle, and all the weapons of death to the children of men....



Those are some of the references to calling the Watchers as 'Satans' and the reference to the specific angel that was the serpent in Eden. He was one of the 200 Watchers bound for their sins. The serpent in Eden was one of the angels that left his estate and is BOUND for his sins. They are all SATANS.

Your concept that SATAN is a name is false. It is a title for a position, a role. There are more then 1 satan. Yes, a single individual has held that title since Babel, not since Eden. If you are going to use Enoch as a source, then you can't equate the serpent in Eden as HaSatan.

The ONLY reference that ties the current Satan with the serpent is a single reference to the 'ancient serpent' which is ASSUMED to mean the serpent in Eden verses the Cockatrice who is also an ancient serpent, an OT dragon but NOT the serpent in Genesis.

The other passage in scripture that people use to tie the serpent in Genesis with the current Satan is in Eze 28. It references the 'king of Tyrus', the god Melqart ('king of the city' in Tire) as a covering cherub and mentions walking in Eden but that is NOT the earthly Eden by the heavenly garden where the 'tree of life' exists in heaven. This same individual is referenced in a dream by Daniel as the 'winged lion' with the heart of a man that had his wings removed. And in the previous prophecy in Eze 28 to the 'prince of Tire', Baal, is specifically states you think you are a god but you are really a man. These are Nephilim, that are classified as man, born on earth, that think they are gods, not fallen angels.

 

[Yahu_]

Who are these angels if not fallen angels? They obviously are not in chains currently as described in 2 Peter 2:4 and Jude 6.

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

I do not believe Rev 12:7-9 describes when the angels chose to follow satan (past), I believe it describes when they will be cast to the earth (future) and no longer be free to access the heavenlies.

The dragon is the 'former Satan' that was cast down at the time of Babel, cast down 'as lightning', locked up with 3 others at the Euphrates. He is let out during the tribulation. The other 3 are 'his angels' that followed him into error. He is the 'old serpent', the OT cockatrice, Ziz the great bird.

He was in prison until being let out in Rev 9. Lucifer isn't the 'great dragon' of Revelation. He is in the role of 'false prophet' as the god of prophecy in the paganism. It is the anti-christ's (Baal) turn to rule in the next earthly kingdom.

The above passage is Rev 12, the four angels get let loose in Rev 9 as well as the opening of the abyss letting out those bound in Tartarus. All of them are let out of prison to walk the earth again before the reference in Rev 12! Yes, they are in prison before that final war. They get let out to see the results of what their offspring have done to the world and the judgement of Yah it brings before being cast into the lake of fire. The dragon isn't but locked up again for another 1000 years.

You have to take things in CONTEXT. Of course they are out of prison by that time! The prisons have been opened. All of the Watchers and the four bound at the Euphrates are back on the earth.

 

[toLiJC]

toLiJC said:

let's clarify something, there have been no Heavenly Holy Angels of God that fell as sinners within one single eternity, but all angels of satan were born as humans in this world without having been Holy Angels of God before they were born in this world (and) within this eternity - just humans that became angels of satan after having practiced deep occultism (such as yoga of krishna and patanjali) for a long enough time, and this is what is explained in Genesis 6,

I read your explanation on the other thread. If you can “clarify” it on this thread with scripture, that would be helpful. I saw no scriptural support in Post #163 Why Were Angels Allowed to Intervene in Prediluvian Human affairs.

ok, i am going to give a scriptural support also here, again putting blue-colored, bracketed explanations in the biblical quotes as well as highlighting explanatory text in green:

Genesis 3:1-7 "Now the serpent was more subtil than(i.e. and lo and behold the "serpent" came from the "darkness" and it was guileful compared to) any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of(i.e. which is beyond) the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes(i.e. your "third eye") shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. And the eyes of them both were opened(i.e. and thus there appeared a "third eye" in both of them), and they knew that they were naked(i.e. and from that moment on they began to perceive the sex, the physical sensory activities, and, in general, the physical creation as unclean/shameful/vicious of themselves); and they sewed fig leaves together(i.e. and they found many wise misbeliefs), and made themselves aprons(i.e. and made for themselves a (human) religion/spirituality).",

Revelation 17:9-12 "And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains(i.e. seven occult realms), on which the woman sitteth(i.e. on which the process of "kundalini"/yoga's activity is based). And there are seven kings(i.e. seven chakras): five are fallen(i.e. the inferior five chakras are considered to be most dependent), and one is(i.e. the sixth chakra is the (most) operative one), and the other is not yet come(i.e. the seventh chakra is main intent); and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth(i.e. the "beast" is even the eight chakra), and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. And the ten horns(i.e. the superior chakras i.e. the ones above the sixth/seventh chakra) which thou sawest are ten kings(i.e. are considered to be higher and highest occult realms and levels of spiritual self-realization), which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast."

the sixth chakra is also the so-called "third eye", which is why the number of the beast is "six hundred threescore and six", plus, the wicked one uses 33.3% of the Heavenly grace/bliss in favor of their kingdom (Revelation 12:4), so the kingdom of the "beats" is based on 66.6% of the kingdom of satan with 33.3% of the Heavenly grace/bliss; the "ten kings" are also the greatest spiritual servants of the "beast"

"And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns(i.e. these are the eleventh and the twelfth chakras, the most high) like a lamb(i.e. having a great power as if is Christ Himself), and he spake as a dragon(i.e. guilefully/deceitfully). And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast"

the "dragon", the "beast", and the "other beast" are the satanic/wicked/false equivalents of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, known in the system of yoga and hindusim as "sat - cit - ananda" - there are at least twelve chakras and many occult realms in the satanic trinity(triad)

Daniel 7:1-28 "In the first year of Belshazzar king of Babylon Daniel had a dream and visions of his head upon his bed: then he wrote the dream, and told the sum of the matters. Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea. And four great beasts came up from the sea(note: remember that the beast comes from the "sea" - Revelation 13:1), diverse one from another. The first was like a lion(i.e. it was dignified), and had eagle's wings(i.e. and had an impulse): I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it(i.e. i beheld until it started to realize its impulse - note: this is the physical activity and iniquity). And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear(i.e. it was affluent/consumptive), and it raised up itself on one side(i.e. and acquisitive/voracious), and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh(note: this is the economic(al) activity and iniquity). After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard(i.e. it was mental), which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads(i.e. which acted and thought with vigor); and dominion was given to it(note: this is the intellectual/mental activity and iniquity). After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast(i.e. the spiritual/religious iniquity), dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth(i.e. great spiritual mastery): it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it(i.e. it turned the things upside down and broke up them into smaller units in favor of its system, and seized the whole world): and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it(i.e. and it turned out that it has been the cause/root and the source/core of all other iniquities and evils since the very beginning of the reign of evil); and it had ten horns(i.e. it had at least ten chakras i.e. unclean/devilish spirits). I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn(i.e. the sixth chakra stood out among the other chakras), before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots(i.e. the first three chakras which primarily represent the sex(uality), and the other physical sensory activities, usually considered to be/marked for being the original sin in/by the system of (the) spiritual iniquity): and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man(or: the two remaining chakras - eleventh and twelfth, which are the highest ones appearing as a result of the deeper and more systematic occult/idolatrous process (of self-realization/self-knowledge)), and a mouth speaking great things(i.e. and a mind which prophesies satanic/unrighteous/guileful things). I beheld till the thrones were cast down(i.e. the reign of the "fourth beast" continued until the moment when the full number of the true Saints came in), and the Ancient of days did sit(i.e. and then the true God, the Heavenly Father, began to wake completely and permanently up from the state of incomplete wakefulness into which He had fallen since the seventh day), whose garment was white as snow(i.e. whose glory was perfectly good), and the hair of his head like the pure wool(i.e. and whose wisdom was full of perfect love for humans): his throne was like the fiery flame(i.e. His Reign and Spirit was completely righteous), and his wheels as burning fire(i.e. and Its four "winds" (were) all-saving). A fiery stream(i.e. a Good Word/Movement) issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened. I beheld then because of the voice of the great words(i.e. of the false prophecies) which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame. As concerning the rest of the beasts(i.e. as for the physical, the economic and the mental/intellectual activities), they had their dominion taken away(i.e. thus their satanic power had been removed, i.e. together with the removal of spiritual lawlessness/wickedness, the fourth "beast"): yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time(i.e. for a certain time)..... I came near unto one of them that stood by, and asked him the truth of all this. So he told me, and made me know the interpretation of the things. These great beasts(i.e. those great iniquities), which are four, are four kings(i.e. are also four natural activities), which shall arise out of the earth(i.e. the physical, the economic, the mental/intellectual and the spiritual/religious one). But the saints of the most High(i.e. the true Saints) shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever. Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast(i.e. about the spiritual/religious iniquity), which was diverse from all the others(i.e. which turned out to be the cause/root/source/core of all other iniquities and evils), exceeding dreadful, whose teeth were of iron(i.e. whose word(s) was(were) like that(those) of God), and his nails of brass(i.e. and its power(s) of grace, but not of the true true God); which devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet(i.e. with its activity); And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes(or: which leads to the highest two chakras), and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows. I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints(i.e. with the true Saints), and prevailed against them; Until the Ancient of days came(i.e. began to wake completely and permanently up, including because of their faithfulness and prayer), and judgment was given to the saints of the most High(i.e. to the true Saints); and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom. Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces(i.e. and shall defile it and try to possess it by means of up to 33.3% of the Heavenly grace/bliss). And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings(i.e. the chakras are devilish spirits) that shall arise: and another shall rise after them(i.e. among them, i.e. the main process of spiritual lawlessness/wickedness - e.g. the process of yoga); and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings. And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end. And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him. Hitherto is the end of the matter. As for me Daniel, my cogitations much troubled me, and my countenance changed in me: but I kept the matter in my heart.",

in this(7th) chapter of Daniel, the four main (kinds of) iniquities are presented in reverse order i.e. in order of their noticeability/observability, because the physical iniquity is most noticeable/observable, the economic(al) iniquity is less noticeable/observable than the physical one, the intellectual/mental is less noticeable/observable than the economic(al), while the spiritual iniquity is least noticeable/observable though it is the main one that is the cause and the source of all others, including of all other evils

Blessings

 

[toLiJC]

Where is it written in scripture that human beings become angels?

Jude 1:6 "the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.",

1 Peter 2:4-12 "God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;..... But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities. Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord. But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;"

here is how there is speak of the difference between Angels and humans that commit spiritual lawlessness/wickedness as well as becoming and being angels of satan, because there have been spiritual, angelic services supposedly to God on human part since men began to practice occultism more than 5 millennia ago, or as St Paul says:

Colossians (NIV) 2:18-19 "Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you. Such a person also goes into great detail about what they have seen; they are puffed up with idle notions by their unspiritual mind(i.e. mind that is not truly spiritual). They have lost connection with the head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow."

that phrase "worship of angels" also means: spiritual, angel-like service ostensibly to God, because many people have practiced such occult methods as yoga and others since ancient times, while the (Heavenly) Holy Angels of God cannot fall as sinners within one single eterntity, but there is a need of many consecutive eternities, maybe zillions, for such an Angel to be born as a sinful human in this world, because They are the ones that have gained the eternal reward in "Heaven" in previous and before many previous eternities, and maybe you realize that such souls cannot lose that reward just like that?!, because the only way they can have it is to be (born as) Angels in "Heaven"

Mark 9:41 "For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward."

Blessings

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

The scriptures posted do not say humans became angels.

 

[toLiJC]

The scriptures posted do not say humans became angels.

read again these passages in the order they are listed here:

firstly, Genesis 6:1-13
then, 1 Peter 3:13-22
thirdly, Colossians 2:18-23
fourthly, Romans 5:12-14
fifthly, Jude 1:1-23
then, 2 Peter 2:1-22

if it is necessary, read them many times again and again exactly in this order they are listed above, and remember how it is written in 2 Peter 3:11 that the (Heavenly) Holy Angels of God never heap abuse on humans

and if it comes into question, where can you find any sentence in the Bible which categorically says that a Holy Angel of God fell from the "Heaven" and became a sinner within one single eternity?!

Blessings

 

[Postvieww]

The dragon is the 'former Satan' that was cast down at the time of Babel, cast down 'as lightning', locked up with 3 others at the Euphrates. He is let out during the tribulation. The other 3 are 'his angels' that followed him into error. He is the 'old serpent', the OT cockatrice, Ziz the great bird.

He was in prison until being let out in Rev 9. Lucifer isn't the 'great dragon' of Revelation. He is in the role of 'false prophet' as the god of prophecy in the paganism. It is the anti-christ's (Baal) turn to rule in the next earthly kingdom.

The above passage is Rev 12, the four angels get let loose in Rev 9 as well as the opening of the abyss letting out those bound in Tartarus. All of them are let out of prison to walk the earth again before the reference in Rev 12! Yes, they are in prison before that final war. They get let out to see the results of what their offspring have done to the world and the judgement of Yah it brings before being cast into the lake of fire. The dragon isn't but locked up again for another 1000 years.

You have to take things in CONTEXT. Of course they are out of prison by that time! The prisons have been opened. All of the Watchers and the four bound at the Euphrates are back on the earth.

Thanks for at least share more detail of what you are claiming. In all of what you posted I’m still not seeing proof of only “204” fallen angels. I still challenge that specific number. I could agree if your claim was only that, 204 is the number chained in darkness, but that is only possible by using the book of Enoch, and most will not accept it as a valid source. As I have said earlier I have quoted Enoch myself on this thread and others and I do accept that at the very least it was known, read and respected to at least some degree by those that wrote our New Testament.


I will not argue the point of the serpent’s name being “satan” or any named entity because scripture in Genesis tells us serpent and that’s all. I do have a few questions that need clarification.


If there are only 204 fallen angels and they are chained at this time.


1. When were they chained?


2. Identify the entity and type that tempted Jesus which scripture calls “the devil”. Jesus specifically referred to him as “Satan” as well. Fallen angel or not, if not what?


3. This “satan” that tempted Christ had authority over the kingdoms of this world, or it was no temptation at all. How could this be a mere "demon"?


4. When did Revelation 12:4 take place in your opinion? I believe it already has.


5. When did or will Revelation 12: 7-10 take place? I believe it is future.


6. Revelation 12:9 refers to one entity as “the great dragon” “that old serpent” (possibly Genesis?)


“the devil” and “satan”. Fallen angel or not? I believe the context shows us fallen angel because “he is over other angels who are obviously fallen.


7. When was the original rebellion? The serpent that tempted Eve, obviously rebelled against God sometime before the fall of man.


Your pointing out from Enoch the use of the word “Satans” does not for me in any way prove there is not one fallen angel greater in authority than the rest. I believe Jesus’s words and Rev 12 confirm that. I will be awaiting the answers to my question. I still contend based on Revelation 12 all fallen angels are not in chains although I will concede the 204.

 

[Postvieww]

ok, i am going to give a scriptural support also here, again putting blue-colored, bracketed explanations in the biblical quotes as well as highlighting explanatory text in green:

Genesis 3:1-7 "Now the serpent was more subtil than(i.e. and lo and behold the "serpent" came from the "darkness" and it was guileful compared to) any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of(i.e. which is beyond) the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes(i.e. your "third eye") shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. And the eyes of them both were opened(i.e. and thus there appeared a "third eye" in both of them), and they knew that they were naked(i.e. and from that moment on they began to perceive the sex, the physical sensory activities, and, in general, the physical creation as unclean/shameful/vicious of themselves); and they sewed fig leaves together(i.e. and they found many wise misbeliefs), and made themselves aprons(i.e. and made for themselves a (human) religion/spirituality).",

Revelation 17:9-12 "And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains(i.e. seven occult realms), on which the woman sitteth(i.e. on which the process of "kundalini"/yoga's activity is based). And there are seven kings(i.e. seven chakras): five are fallen(i.e. the inferior five chakras are considered to be most dependent), and one is(i.e. the sixth chakra is the (most) operative one), and the other is not yet come(i.e. the seventh chakra is main intent); and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth(i.e. the "beast" is even the eight chakra), and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. And the ten horns(i.e. the superior chakras i.e. the ones above the sixth/seventh chakra) which thou sawest are ten kings(i.e. are considered to be higher and highest occult realms and levels of spiritual self-realization), which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast."

the sixth chakra is also the so-called "third eye", which is why the number of the beast is "six hundred threescore and six", plus, the wicked one uses 33.3% of the Heavenly grace/bliss in favor of their kingdom (Revelation 12:4), so the kingdom of the "beats" is based on 66.6% of the kingdom of satan with 33.3% of the Heavenly grace/bliss; the "ten kings" are also the greatest spiritual servants of the "beast"

"And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns(i.e. these are the eleventh and the twelfth chakras, the most high) like a lamb(i.e. having a great power as if is Christ Himself), and he spake as a dragon(i.e. guilefully/deceitfully). And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast"

the "dragon", the "beast", and the "other beast" are the satanic/wicked/false equivalents of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, known in the system of yoga and hindusim as "sat - cit - ananda" - there are at least twelve chakras and many occult realms in the satanic trinity(triad)

Daniel 7:1-28 "In the first year of Belshazzar king of Babylon Daniel had a dream and visions of his head upon his bed: then he wrote the dream, and told the sum of the matters. Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea. And four great beasts came up from the sea(note: remember that the beast comes from the "sea" - Revelation 13:1), diverse one from another. The first was like a lion(i.e. it was dignified), and had eagle's wings(i.e. and had an impulse): I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it(i.e. i beheld until it started to realize its impulse - note: this is the physical activity and iniquity). And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear(i.e. it was affluent/consumptive), and it raised up itself on one side(i.e. and acquisitive/voracious), and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh(note: this is the economic(al) activity and iniquity). After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard(i.e. it was mental), which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads(i.e. which acted and thought with vigor); and dominion was given to it(note: this is the intellectual/mental activity and iniquity). After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast(i.e. the spiritual/religious iniquity), dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth(i.e. great spiritual mastery): it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it(i.e. it turned the things upside down and broke up them into smaller units in favor of its system, and seized the whole world): and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it(i.e. and it turned out that it has been the cause/root and the source/core of all other iniquities and evils since the very beginning of the reign of evil); and it had ten horns(i.e. it had at least ten chakras i.e. unclean/devilish spirits). I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn(i.e. the sixth chakra stood out among the other chakras), before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots(i.e. the first three chakras which primarily represent the sex(uality), and the other physical sensory activities, usually considered to be/marked for being the original sin in/by the system of (the) spiritual iniquity): and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man(or: the two remaining chakras - eleventh and twelfth, which are the highest ones appearing as a result of the deeper and more systematic occult/idolatrous process (of self-realization/self-knowledge)), and a mouth speaking great things(i.e. and a mind which prophesies satanic/unrighteous/guileful things). I beheld till the thrones were cast down(i.e. the reign of the "fourth beast" continued until the moment when the full number of the true Saints came in), and the Ancient of days did sit(i.e. and then the true God, the Heavenly Father, began to wake completely and permanently up from the state of incomplete wakefulness into which He had fallen since the seventh day), whose garment was white as snow(i.e. whose glory was perfectly good), and the hair of his head like the pure wool(i.e. and whose wisdom was full of perfect love for humans): his throne was like the fiery flame(i.e. His Reign and Spirit was completely righteous), and his wheels as burning fire(i.e. and Its four "winds" (were) all-saving). A fiery stream(i.e. a Good Word/Movement) issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened. I beheld then because of the voice of the great words(i.e. of the false prophecies) which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame. As concerning the rest of the beasts(i.e. as for the physical, the economic and the mental/intellectual activities), they had their dominion taken away(i.e. thus their satanic power had been removed, i.e. together with the removal of spiritual lawlessness/wickedness, the fourth "beast"): yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time(i.e. for a certain time)..... I came near unto one of them that stood by, and asked him the truth of all this. So he told me, and made me know the interpretation of the things. These great beasts(i.e. those great iniquities), which are four, are four kings(i.e. are also four natural activities), which shall arise out of the earth(i.e. the physical, the economic, the mental/intellectual and the spiritual/religious one). But the saints of the most High(i.e. the true Saints) shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever. Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast(i.e. about the spiritual/religious iniquity), which was diverse from all the others(i.e. which turned out to be the cause/root/source/core of all other iniquities and evils), exceeding dreadful, whose teeth were of iron(i.e. whose word(s) was(were) like that(those) of God), and his nails of brass(i.e. and its power(s) of grace, but not of the true true God); which devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet(i.e. with its activity); And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes(or: which leads to the highest two chakras), and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows. I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints(i.e. with the true Saints), and prevailed against them; Until the Ancient of days came(i.e. began to wake completely and permanently up, including because of their faithfulness and prayer), and judgment was given to the saints of the most High(i.e. to the true Saints); and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom. Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces(i.e. and shall defile it and try to possess it by means of up to 33.3% of the Heavenly grace/bliss). And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings(i.e. the chakras are devilish spirits) that shall arise: and another shall rise after them(i.e. among them, i.e. the main process of spiritual lawlessness/wickedness - e.g. the process of yoga); and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings. And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end. And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him. Hitherto is the end of the matter. As for me Daniel, my cogitations much troubled me, and my countenance changed in me: but I kept the matter in my heart.",

in this(7th) chapter of Daniel, the four main (kinds of) iniquities are presented in reverse order i.e. in order of their noticeability/observability, because the physical iniquity is most noticeable/observable, the economic(al) iniquity is less noticeable/observable than the physical one, the intellectual/mental is less noticeable/observable than the economic(al), while the spiritual iniquity is least noticeable/observable though it is the main one that is the cause and the source of all others, including of all other evils

Blessings

My dear brother far too much mingling of paganism to explain our scriptures for me. Blessing to you as well!

My dear brother far too much mingling of paganism to explain our scriptures for me. Blessing to you as well!

 

[Yahu_]

Your pointing out from Enoch the use of the word “Satans” does not for me in any way prove there is not one fallen angel greater in authority than the rest. I believe Jesus’s words and Rev 12 confirm that. I will be awaiting the answers to my question. I still contend based on Revelation 12 all fallen angels are not in chains although I will concede the 204.

I think I said 204 KNOWN angels that fell if you take the 200 from Enoch as valid. We just plain are not told of any others.

We know of 3 rebellions, that of man in Eden, the Gen 6 angels and Babel. Everyone else assumes an non mentioned rebellion by thinking the 1/3 of the stars that are pulled down by the dragon's tail is another rebellion of angels. They pull that verse totally out of context. EVERYTHING past Rev 4 is future from the start of the tribulation forward.

I would also suggest you do a search for what the OT references as the 'host of heaven'. Most references of it are directly tied to the paganism. A few times it is a reference to Yah's angels.

Here is an example:

De 17:3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded;
2Ki 17:16 And they left all the commandments of the LORD their God, and made them molten images, even two calves, and made a grove, and worshipped all the host of heaven, and served Baal.
2Ki 21:3 For he built up again the high places which Hezekiah his father had destroyed; and he reared up altars for Baal, and made a grove, as did Ahab king of Israel; and worshipped all the host of heaven, and served them.
2Ki 23:4 And the king commanded Hilkiah the high priest, and the priests of the second order, and the keepers of the door, to bring forth out of the temple of the LORD all the vessels that were made for Baal, and for the grove, and for all the host of heaven: and he burned them without Jerusalem in the fields of Kidron, and carried the ashes of them unto Bethel.
2Ki 23:5 And he put down the idolatrous priests, whom the kings of Judah had ordained to burn incense in the high places in the cities of Judah, and in the places round about Jerusalem; them also that burned incense unto Baal, to the sun, and to the moon, and to the planets, and to all the host of heaven.

The pagan deities in the sky, the planets, the constellations, the sun god and moon goddess are referenced as the pagan 'host of heaven/sky'. Could it be these that the dragon pulls 1/3 down? I believe it is and not some mythical other rebellion. I see it as a re-ordering of the principalities that side with the dragon once he is free from his prison. He is the father/ancestor of many of those Nephilim spirits. It is a dividing of the demonic realms, a kingdom divided against itself that can not stand.

If Lucifer is the son, when dad gets let out of prison to retake his lost position of authority, it will cause chaos in the ranks.

 

[Yahu_]

1. When were they chained?

Enoch tells us they were allowed to see their children die by the flood then chained up. Of course Yah wasn't going to allow them to have more children after He sent the flood to wipe out those children. It had to be sometime right after the death of the children.

2. Identify the entity and type that tempted Jesus which scripture calls “the devil”. Jesus specifically referred to him as “Satan” as well. Fallen angel or not, if not what?

I see the current Satan the individual we would call Lucifer/Apollo, the son of the former Satan. So, no not a fallen angel but a winged child of that former angel that had his wings removed by Yah but was born on earth thus classified as both man by birth and cherub/Sereph because of being winged. He lived then died but took over rulership of the realm of the dead as the most powerful Nephilim spirit. .

3. This “satan” that tempted Christ had authority over the kingdoms of this world, or it was no temptation at all. How could this be a mere "demon"?

Yah gave dominion over the earth to MAN, not angels. When Lucifer took over the spiritual realms on earth he forced that authority to be granted because angels don't qualify to have dominion. He usurped his Father's previous position.

4. When did Revelation 12:4 take place in your opinion? I believe it already has.

It takes place when the former Satan tries to return to heaven after being let out of prison. The time is in the tribulation.

5. When did or will Revelation 12: 7-10 take place? I believe it is future.

Future, see above.

6. Revelation 12:9 refers to one entity as “the great dragon” “that old serpent” (possibly Genesis?)

Again, I see the dragon, the old Satan (which he held from Eden to Babel, but not the serpent was originally an agent of Yah that guarded Eden) as the cockatrice of the OT, not the serpent in Eden. Yes, he is/was a full angel but has been in prison since Babel.

“the devil” and “satan”. Fallen angel or not? I believe the context shows us fallen angel because “he is over other angels who are obviously fallen.


7. When was the original rebellion? The serpent that tempted Eve, obviously rebelled against God sometime before the fall of man.

That isn't a rebellion. It was jealousy IMO. Angels are created with fixed glory. Mankind is born with no glory/knowledge but can achieve greater glory then the angels. We were created to displace them of positions of authority. That made them jealous of our future glorification.

How can an angel increase in glory? They can't BUT if they have offspring and those offspring can achieve GREAT glory, the angel as a father has authority over his children. The net effect is an elevation of that angels status. So they taught their sons much knowledge to give them an advantage over man. The problem is with greater power, the children dominated and to be great in the kingdom is to serve, not to rule. They didn't understand the rules on how to gain great glory in the coming age.

Your pointing out from Enoch the use of the word “Satans” does not for me in any way prove there is not one fallen angel greater in authority than the rest.

All I stated was that Enoch calls all the Watchers as 'Satans'. It isn't an individual's name. Yes, I believe the same individual has held that title since Babel so for most of the scripture it has been a single individual.

 

[toLiJC]

My dear brother far too much mingling of paganism to explain our scriptures for me. Blessing to you as well!

My dear brother far too much mingling of paganism to explain our scriptures for me. Blessing to you as well!

i don't mingle the truth of God with a lie, it may seem to you that something is mingled with something else, but i speak the perfect truth of God and Jesus - there are some spiritual things hard to be understood, and it is not even possible that they be understood only by reading in the physical/material sense of the word (2 Peter 3:15-16), for example, many people practiced occultism such as yoga of krishna and patanjali, but only some of them had the chance to experience and practically know the difference between the different chakras/occult realms as well as the difference between high and low in the occult world, however, only the true Saints understand the difference between the spiritual of the true God and the spiritual of the wicked one which is the occult:

1 Corinthians 2:14-16 "the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual(i.e. truly spiritual) judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man(i.e. yet he himself cannot be denounced by anyone). For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ."

and They know that the occult is not true, though it is real, and They had to talk not only about the spiritual things of God, but also about the spiritual things of the wicked one, so that they could explain the difference between spiritual and occult:

1 Corinthians 2:12-13 "we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual."

the yogi(n)s receive the spirit of the world, namely the so-called "beast(666)", and this is the reason why they cannot understand and don't know the things of the true God, even if they know everything as occultists, or IOW, as spiritual servants/workers of the spiritual of satan, because a person need love the true God or at least His righteousness so that they can (as it were) know His truth, the true God is a Spirit, and His Kingdom is Spiritual (at least at Its core), but the wicked one is also a spirit, and his kingdom is also spiritual (at its core), and the spiritual is (in) the base of everything in the universe, God forbid (that) the spiritual of the wicked one should rule anything in the universe!, but unfortunately it has ruled many things for the last centuries and millennia - even since the day of the Fall, and, as we said above, it is the occult and the spiritual of yoga as well as of many other unclean/unrighteous religions

Blessings

 

[Postvieww]

Archaeologists Find the Gate to Goliath's Hometown

The city entrance is one of the largest ever found in Israel

Link below:

Archaeologists unearth entrance to Biblical city Gath, and it's massive

 

[toLiJC]

Archaeologists Find the Gate to Goliath's Hometown

The city entrance is one of the largest ever found in Israel

Link below:

Archaeologists unearth entrance to Biblical city Gath, and it's massive

and is there anything fitting at least 135 meter giant?!

Numbers 13:33 "And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.",

Enoch 7:11-12 "And the women conceiving brought forth giants, Whose stature was each three hundred cubits.",

Wikipedia (Biblical cubit) "The Near Eastern or Biblical cubit is usually estimated as approximately 457.2 mm (18 in)."

Blessings

 

[Postvieww]

Left their own habitation



2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house (3614) of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house (3614) not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

The context of this verse shows “house” to be our earthly bodies.

2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house (3613) which is from heaven:

The context of this verse shows “house “ to be our new heavenly bodies after the resurrection.

3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.



Jude 6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation (3613), he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

The word habitation is the same Greek word use in 2 Corinthians 5:2 which lends credence to the point the angels left their own heavenly bodies to engage in the human activity of fornication with strange flesh as outlined in Jude 7.

7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.



Strong's Concordance 3613

oikétérion: a habitation

Original Word: οἰκητήριον, ου, τό

Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter

Transliteration: oikétérion

Phonetic Spelling: (oy-kay-tay'-ree-on)

Short Definition: a dwelling-place, habitation

Definition: a dwelling-place, habitation, abode.



Strong's Concordance 3614

oikia: a house, dwelling

Original Word: οἰκία, ας, ἡ

Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine

Transliteration: oikia

Phonetic Spelling: (oy-kee'-ah)

Short Definition: a house, household

Definition: a house, household, dwelling; meton: goods, property, means.

 

[Major1]

Book of Enoch Chapter 6 Compared to Scripture


1. It happened after the sons of men had multiplied in those days, that daughters were born to them, elegant and beautiful.

Gen 6: 2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

2. And when the angels, the sons of heaven,beheld them, they became enamoured of them, saying

to each other. Come, let us select for ourselves wives from the progeny of men, and let us beget children.

Gen 6: 4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

3. Then their leader Samyaza said to them ; I fear that you may perhaps be indisposed to the performance of this enterprise ;

4. And that I alone shall suffer for so grievous a crime.

5. But they answered him and said ; We all swear

6. And bind ourselves by mutual execrations, that we will not change our intention, but execute our projected undertaking.

7. Then they swore all together, and all bound themselves by mutual execrations. Their whole number was two hundred, who descended upon Ardis, which is the top of mount Armon.

8. That mountain therefore was called Armon, because they had sworn upon it, and bound themselves by mutual execrations.

9. These are the names of their chiefs : Samyaza, who was their leader, Urakabarameel, Akibeel, Tamiel, Ramuel, Danel, Azkeel, Saraknyal, Asael, Armers, Batraal, Anane, Zavebe, Samsaveel, Ertael, Turel, Yomyael, Arazyal. These were the prefects of the two hundred angels, and the remainder were all with them.

10. Then they took wives, each choosing for himself; whom they began to approach, and with whom they cohabited ; teaching them sorcery, incantations, and the dividing of roots and trees.

11. And the women conceiving brought forth giants,

12. Whose stature was each three hundred cubits. These devoured all which the labour of men produced ; until it became impossible to feed them ;

13. When they turned themselves against men, in order to devour them ;


Micah 3:1 And I said, Hear, I pray you, O heads of Jacob, and ye princes of the house of Israel; Is it not for you to know judgment?

2 Who hate the good, and love the evil; who pluck off their skin from off them, and their flesh from off their bones;

3 Who also eat the flesh of my people, and flay their skin from off them; and they break their bones, and chop them in pieces, as for the pot, and as flesh within the caldron.


14. And began to injure birds, beasts, reptiles, and fishes, to eat their flesh one after another, and to drink their blood.


Leviticus 7:26 Moreover ye shall eat no manner of blood, whether it be of fowl or of beast, in any of your dwellings.

Leviticus 7:27 Whatsoever soul it be that eateth any manner of blood, even that soul shall be cut off from his people.

Acts 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

Acts 15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

15. Then the earth reproved the unrighteous.

In my opinion, nothing from the book of Enoch is acceptable in correctly understanding the Bible.

Enoch is NOT included in Scriptures because it is OCCULTIC and anti-Christ in its teaching.

We tend to want to have "conspirecey's and mystery's" in our lives because it causes excitement and IMO that comes from Hollywood.

Most of the time, the real answer is right in front of us. IMO, the “sons of God” refers to the descendents of Seth, while the “daughters of men” refers to the descendents of Cain. In other words, the righteous line of Seth intermarried with the unrighteous line of Cain resulting in the corruption of society.

Simple as that! All this other stuff is coming from or own imagination. That is not a comment of disrespect to anyone, just the way I think.

 

[Major1]

My comment

There have been and are some humans who are larger than the average, and some smaller

Much of this has to do with genetics and cultural environment

Most past populations on average have been of smaller stature that today for various reasons .... nutrition, diet, etc.

So I would say that the reference to "giants" [men of renown] in Genesis 6 had more to do with wealth, political influence, and financial status rather than physical size

Should we look for giant humans as we move close to the end of this present age?

I don't think so

I tend to agree with you.

 

[Postvieww]

In my opinion, nothing from the book of Enoch is acceptable in correctly understanding the Bible.

Enoch is NOT included in Scriptures because it is OCCULTIC and anti-Christ in its teaching.

We tend to want to have "conspirecey's and mystery's" in our lives because it causes excitement and IMO that comes from Hollywood.

Most of the time, the real answer is right in front of us. IMO, the “sons of God” refers to the descendents of Seth, while the “daughters of men” refers to the descendents of Cain. In other words, the righteous line of Seth intermarried with the unrighteous line of Cain resulting in the corruption of society.

Simple as that! All this other stuff is coming from or own imagination. That is not a comment of disrespect to anyone, just the way I think.

Your opinion on the Sethite view agrees with a few others who have posted here. I will refer you to post # 309 and a very detailed video in post #305 that refutes that view. I am more than willing to discuss any specific points about the theory that the “sons of God” are the sons of Seth. IMHO That view is totally without scriptural support.

 

[Major1]

Your opinion on the Sethite view agrees with a few others who have posted here. I will refer you to post # 309 and a very detailed video in post #305 that refutes that view. I am more than willing to discuss any specific points about the theory that the “son of God” are the sons of Seth. IMHO That view is totally without scriptural support.

That is interesting. That is exactly what I think about the view of angels having sex with humans.

This is a subject in which I have had countless discussions on. The bottom line is that there are NO Scriptures to support fallen angels having sex with humans. NONE!

Now there are Scriptures which can be twisted to make say what we want them to say to fit our way of thinking but that in itself is in-Biblical as well.

The "Sons of God" in Genesis 6 can not be fallen angels.

When you use Job 1:6 to support angels being the "Sons of God", you are correct in that the phrase “sons of God” is talking about angels in Job. But when one does a closer examination of the scriptures shows that Genesis 6 is NOT talking about angels. It is referring to humans and this truth can be deducted from the principles and context of what the Bible teaches.

Correct Bible exegesis ALLWAYS stems from the correct "context" of what it is we are looking at.
Now if we go back to Genesis 4, it establishes the context for chapters 5 and 6. At the end of Genesis 4, we are shown that two families of men are emerging in the Earth–---
1). Cain’s descendants
2). and Seth’s descendants.

It was Seth’s descendants who “call upon the name of the LORD,” in Genesis 4:26. In other words, Seth’s descendants were those who worshiped God and their lineage is highlighted in Genesis 5. Since they worshiped God, they were considered sons of God and were the sons of God in Genesis 6. It was Cain’s descendants and other unbelievers who were the “daughters of men.”

May I also point out to you that Fallen angels are never called sons of God.

Satan, who is the fallen angel Lucifer as seen in Isaiah 14:12-15, Ezekiel 28:12-17, first appears in the garden of Eden in Genesis 3. We must also take into account that Satan, according to Revelation 12:4, convinced 1/3 of the angels in heaven to follow him in his rebellion against God as he started a war in heaven. Revelation 12 also tells us that Satan lost the war and was kicked out of heaven with his angels. It was at this point that---------------

"…God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment" [2 Peter 2:4] AND........

"…the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day." [Jude 6]

Since these angels “kept not their first estate,” they lost all the privileges and benefits they had in heaven, including the right to be called the “sons of God.” Because Satan is present in Genesis 3, we know he has already been kicked out of heaven with his angels. So by the time Genesis 6 comes around, neither Satan nor his angels would have been referred to as the “sons of God.”

I have absolutely no expectation that you will accept any of what I have just posted. I only did this so that some else who is not learned in this Bible subject would be able to see the other side of the explanation.

 

[Major1]

1. When were they chained?

Enoch tells us they were allowed to see their children die by the flood then chained up. Of course Yah wasn't going to allow them to have more children after He sent the flood to wipe out those children. It had to be sometime right after the death of the children.

2. Identify the entity and type that tempted Jesus which scripture calls “the devil”. Jesus specifically referred to him as “Satan” as well. Fallen angel or not, if not what?

I see the current Satan the individual we would call Lucifer/Apollo, the son of the former Satan. So, no not a fallen angel but a winged child of that former angel that had his wings removed by Yah but was born on earth thus classified as both man by birth and cherub/Sereph because of being winged. He lived then died but took over rulership of the realm of the dead as the most powerful Nephilim spirit. .

3. This “satan” that tempted Christ had authority over the kingdoms of this world, or it was no temptation at all. How could this be a mere "demon"?

Yah gave dominion over the earth to MAN, not angels. When Lucifer took over the spiritual realms on earth he forced that authority to be granted because angels don't qualify to have dominion. He usurped his Father's previous position.

4. When did Revelation 12:4 take place in your opinion? I believe it already has.

It takes place when the former Satan tries to return to heaven after being let out of prison. The time is in the tribulation.

5. When did or will Revelation 12: 7-10 take place? I believe it is future.

Future, see above.

6. Revelation 12:9 refers to one entity as “the great dragon” “that old serpent” (possibly Genesis?)

Again, I see the dragon, the old Satan (which he held from Eden to Babel, but not the serpent was originally an agent of Yah that guarded Eden) as the cockatrice of the OT, not the serpent in Eden. Yes, he is/was a full angel but has been in prison since Babel.

“the devil” and “satan”. Fallen angel or not? I believe the context shows us fallen angel because “he is over other angels who are obviously fallen.


7. When was the original rebellion? The serpent that tempted Eve, obviously rebelled against God sometime before the fall of man.

That isn't a rebellion. It was jealousy IMO. Angels are created with fixed glory. Mankind is born with no glory/knowledge but can achieve greater glory then the angels. We were created to displace them of positions of authority. That made them jealous of our future glorification.

How can an angel increase in glory? They can't BUT if they have offspring and those offspring can achieve GREAT glory, the angel as a father has authority over his children. The net effect is an elevation of that angels status. So they taught their sons much knowledge to give them an advantage over man. The problem is with greater power, the children dominated and to be great in the kingdom is to serve, not to rule. They didn't understand the rules on how to gain great glory in the coming age.

Your pointing out from Enoch the use of the word “Satans” does not for me in any way prove there is not one fallen angel greater in authority than the rest.

All I stated was that Enoch calls all the Watchers as 'Satans'. It isn't an individual's name. Yes, I believe the same individual has held that title since Babel so for most of the scripture it has been a single individual.

You are welcome to believe and accept Enoch as it is written. I will however say to you once again that the book of Enoch is of the OCCULT!

There is nothing in it for us today. I have done this many times and here once again I ask all of you to consider these words from the book of Enoch 40:9-10..........

"....seen and whose words I have heard and written down?’ And he said to me: ‘This first is Michael, the merciful and long-suffering: and the second, who is set over all the diseases and all the wounds of the children of men, is Raphael: and the third, who is set over all the powers, is Gabriel: and the fourth, who is set over the repentance unto hope of those who inherit eternal life, is named Phanuel.’
10 And these are the four angels of the Lord of Spirits and the four voices I heard in those days.

Please post for me the Scriptures in the Bible where there is an angel name an angel named Phanuel, and Raphael. Now if you are going to accept the Book of Enoch it should not be hard to tell all of us where these two angels came from in the actual Bible.


Now consider that let alone an angel who is set over the repentance of those who inherit eternal life. Again, where is that found in the Word of God????

What that statement is, is blasphemy! That statement in itself contradicts everything the Word of God teaches. If there was nothing else in the Book of Enoch but those two verses, they alone are all that is need for the Christian to reject such a comment.

We read in 1st Timothy 2:5 that Jesus Christ is the ONLY Mediator between God and men, not some angel named Phanuel... "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."

You see, repentance is strictly between a man and Jesus Christ alone. Only Jesus died for our sins, and shed His blood to pay for them (1st Peter 1:18-19); therefore, we must be diligent to guard and defend the Word of God against productions like Enoch and encourage all to reject it as heresy.