• With the events that occured on July 13th, 2024, a reminder that posts wishing that the attempt was successful will not be tolerated. Regardless of political affiliation, at no point is any type of post wishing death on someone is allowed and will be actioned appropriately by CF Staff.

  • Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

General Mike Flynn uncovers 'religious' organization that's a front for money-laundering tax dollars. Musk vows that DOGE will shut it down

essentialsaltes

Fact-Based Lifeform
Oct 17, 2011
38,523
41,943
Los Angeles Area
✟942,251.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Legal Union (Other)

Elon Musk targets Lutheran groups' federal funding. Here's how the money is used in Columbus


Flynn, who briefly served as national security advisor during the early days of President Donald Trump's first term, posted on X on Saturday night that Lutherans are using "'religion' as a money laundering operation" and that it "must end."

Flynn said the "huge sums" the entities in the screenshots get "raise serious questions about how taxpayer funds are being spent and who’s benefiting."

Those questions are easily answered, at least locally, with a look into what services Lutheran Social Services of Central Ohio provides in Columbus and the region.

The grants specifically mentioned in the images are for the LSS Health Center, [President & CEO of LSS] Lustig said.

The health center, located Downtown on North Grant next to the organization's homeless shelter, Faith Mission, offers health care to people experiencing homelessness and those with low incomes who may have trouble accessing health care.

1738617542088.png
 
  • Wow
Reactions: DaisyDay

linux.poet

Internet Librarian
Christian Forums Staff
Red Team - Moderator
Angels Team
CF Senior Ambassador
Site Supporter
Apr 25, 2022
2,875
1,575
Poway
✟288,303.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Republican
This is confusing to me. Money laundering is using a legitimate business to make criminal money not look like it came from criminals. Are the drug cartels paying into this organization to feed their homeless brothers? Somehow I doubt this. Who are the criminals?

I think Elon is trying to say that this Lutheran organization is misusing funds that the government is giving it, not that it takes money from criminals to fund its operations.
 
Upvote 0

BCP1928

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2024
6,181
3,152
82
Goldsboro NC
✟232,743.00
Country
United States
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Married
This is confusing to me. Money laundering is using a legitimate business to make criminal money not look like it came from criminals. Are the drug cartels paying into this organization to feed their homeless brothers? Somehow I doubt this. Who are the criminals?

I think Elon is trying to say that this Lutheran organization is misusing funds that the government is giving it, not that it takes money from criminals to fund its operations.
The wrong kind of Christians giving money to the wrong kind of people. MAGA!
 
Upvote 0

linux.poet

Internet Librarian
Christian Forums Staff
Red Team - Moderator
Angels Team
CF Senior Ambassador
Site Supporter
Apr 25, 2022
2,875
1,575
Poway
✟288,303.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Republican
The wrong kind of Christians giving money to the wrong kind of people. MAGA!
Is it illegal to give money to illegal immigrants?

We know that hiring them is illegal, but is giving them money illegal too?
 
Upvote 0

Arcangl86

Newbie
Dec 29, 2013
12,044
8,317
✟392,823.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Green
I wonder what they're after? The center is run by ELCA, a "woke" denomination that Tim Walz beongs to.
Actually only half true. The Lutheran Services of America, which Lutheran Social Services of Central Ohio is part of, is a joint venture between the ELCA and LCMS. So many Trump supporters support the work of LSA as well as Harris supporters.
 
Upvote 0

BCP1928

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2024
6,181
3,152
82
Goldsboro NC
✟232,743.00
Country
United States
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Married
Actually only half true. The Lutheran Services of America, which Lutheran Social Services of Central Ohio is part of, is a joint venture between the ELCA and LCMS. So many Trump supporters support the work of LSA as well as Harris supporters.
LCMS is hard core Christian Nationalist. Maybe it's part of a power grab.
 
Upvote 0

Laodicean60

Well-Known Member
Jul 2, 2023
3,890
1,933
64
NM
✟79,711.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Upvote 0

BCP1928

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2024
6,181
3,152
82
Goldsboro NC
✟232,743.00
Country
United States
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Married
The wrong kind of Christians helping the wrong kind of people. Getting rid of them is all part of the plan. Mainstream Protestants and Catholics have no place, no future in a truly Christian America. MAGA! The hatred that right-wing Evangelicals have for these people oozes out even on CF which is heavily moderated against it.
 
Upvote 0

ThatRobGuy

Part of the IT crowd
Site Supporter
Sep 4, 2005
26,689
16,252
Here
✟1,377,161.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Catholics next...

Probably should scrap all public funding to religious organizations.

I ripped on Elon above for what appears to be blindly retweeting something without looking into it (if you look at the timestamps between the original tweet and his re-tweet, they're only 6 hours apart, there's no way that would've been enough time to "look into the situation" in any sort of real detail). Not to mention, claiming that someone is engaging in money laundering borders on defamation.


But none the less, I'd prefer if no tax money went to religious based organizations, even ones that proport to be only engaging in "secular services", as there's still often proselytizing that goes on and that's not what our money should be spent on. I know my parents' Baptist church received some state money at one point because they were running a meal kitchen for the homeless and people down on their luck. While that alone is a secular act, every church volunteer in there was on their own little side mission to "spread the word" and "get people saved", and it ended up being an environment that more closely resembled a timeshare presentation, where it's the old "you want the free meal, you gotta hear the spiel"

I think a lot of times, faith-based organizations will leverage engagement in public services (which, by themselves, are secular) in order to get a "captive audience" for their recruitment speech.
 
Upvote 0

BCP1928

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2024
6,181
3,152
82
Goldsboro NC
✟232,743.00
Country
United States
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Married
Probably should scrap all public funding to religious organizations.

I ripped on Elon above for what appears to be blindly retweeting something without looking into it (if you look at the timestamps between the original tweet and his re-tweet, they're only 6 hours apart, there's no way that would've been enough time to "look into the situation" in any sort of real detail). Not to mention, claiming that someone is engaging in money laundering borders on defamation.


But none the less, I'd prefer if no tax money went to religious based organizations, even ones that proport to be only engaging in "secular services", as there's still often proselytizing that goes on and that's not what our money should be spent on. I know my parents' Baptist church received some state money at one point because they were running a meal kitchen for the homeless and people down on their luck. While that alone is a secular act, every church volunteer in there was on their own little side mission to "spread the word" and "get people saved", and it ended up being an environment that more closely resembled a timeshare presentation, where it's the old "you want the free meal, you gotta hear the spiel"

I think a lot of times, faith-based organizations will leverage engagement in public services (which, by themselves, are secular) in order to get a "captive audience" for their recruitment speech.
I agree, but I don't think it's going to stop. It's just going to be only "real" Christian denominations which get the money.
 
Upvote 0

seeking.IAM

A View From The Pew
Site Supporter
Feb 29, 2004
4,695
5,398
Indiana
✟1,059,481.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Probably should scrap all public funding to religious organizations

That would have some far-reaching results. Many large health and hospital systems are faith-based. So when grandma goes into the hospital to get her hip replaced, she should get the bill instead of having Medicare pay for it?

Religious entities founded many of the hospitals, orphanages, children's homes, half-way houses, etc. in this country over 100 years ago. Many of them are still in operation today partnering with government. I worked for such an agency in the business of mental health treatment. We had government contracts providing outpatient psychotherapy, community-based services, and inpatient mental health services. We were paid with government child welfare funds, Medicaid, private insurance, and self-pay depending upon which service the client was receiving and which contract. Without us, there was no one else to do what we did.

Here are two: Ascension St. Vincent and Advocate Health Care

Sometimes being a faith-based agency has to do with why you do something, not how you do something. They are acting because of their faith, not trying to push their faith onto others.
 
Upvote 0

BCP1928

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2024
6,181
3,152
82
Goldsboro NC
✟232,743.00
Country
United States
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Married
That would have some far-reaching results. Many large health and hospital systems are faith-based. So when grandma goes into the hospital to get her hip replaced, she should get the bill instead of having Medicare pay for it?

Religious entities founded many of the hospitals, orphanages, children's homes, half-way houses, etc. in this country over 100 years ago. Many of them are still in operation today partnering with government. I worked for such an agency in the business of mental health treatment. We had government contracts providing outpatient psychotherapy, community-based services, and inpatient mental health services. We were paid with government child welfare funds, Medicaid, private insurance, and self-pay depending upon which service the client was receiving and which contract. Without us, there was no one else to do what we did.

Here are two: Ascension St. Vincent and Advocate Health Care

Sometimes being a faith-based agency has to do with why you do something, not how you do something. They are acting because of their faith, not trying to push their faith onto others.
But Rob is right. Cutting funding to all religious organizations may be the only Constitutional way to make sure that the wrong kind of Christians don't get any.
 
Upvote 0

seeking.IAM

A View From The Pew
Site Supporter
Feb 29, 2004
4,695
5,398
Indiana
✟1,059,481.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Many large health and hospital systems are faith-based. So when grandma goes into the hospital to get her hip replaced, she should get the bill instead of having Medicare pay for it?
But Rob is right. Cutting funding to all religious organizations may be the only Constitutional way to make sure that the wrong kind of Christians don't get any.

Just too bad about grandma's hip, eh? Grandma should just suck it up for the greater good.
 
Upvote 0

ThatRobGuy

Part of the IT crowd
Site Supporter
Sep 4, 2005
26,689
16,252
Here
✟1,377,161.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Just too bad about grandma's hip, eh? Grandma should just suck it up for the greater good.
Or they could use the money they would've given to the religious organization, and instead give it to a private sector counterpart for new locations or an expansion?

One of the big issues with the Catholic Health Association, was that not only did they receive some forms of federal funding, but they moved some money around and would buy up other hospitals and smaller healthcare systems, and then start denying certain "services" that went against their religious beliefs...and were able to do it by using some "creative accounting"
 
Upvote 0

ThatRobGuy

Part of the IT crowd
Site Supporter
Sep 4, 2005
26,689
16,252
Here
✟1,377,161.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
But Rob is right. Cutting funding to all religious organizations may be the only Constitutional way to make sure that the wrong kind of Christians don't get any.
I don't really have a preference or opinion about "which ones are right and wrong kinds"...I don't have a dog in that fight.

But regardless of whether their positions are right or wrong, they're positions that shouldn't be receiving government funding none-the-less.

I cited the example above of the Catholic Health Association. They found some creative ways (via creative accounting) to move some money around so that they could both expand, deny certain services, and still receive government money.
 
Upvote 0