Gen 3:14 all the days of thy life.

[cwb01]

Gen 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:


Does this verse which is used so early in the bible show there is a time limit on Satan's life and that eternal conscious torment is a false doctrine. It says "all the days of thy life". Sounds like God is telling the devil that his days are numbered and his existance will come to an end, not that he will be tortured endlessly for eternity.

 

[St_Worm2]

Hello @cwb01, first off (since I see that you are a new member), WELCOME TO CF

As for Genesis 3:14's, "all the days of your life", it refers to life in this age, on this side of the grave (for humans like Adam .. e.g. Genesis 3:17), and probably from the Garden of God to the pit (Abyss) for Satan .. e.g. Revelation 20:1-3. (it does not speak of the end of Adam's or Satan's life in the eternal sense however, as both will continue on into eternity)

It also tells us, along with v15, that Satan will continue on with us (in humiliation for what he did .. slither on his belly/eat dust .. v14) and will be a problem for us 'in this life' (he will bruise/strike our heel), even for a time after his head is "bruised/crushed" by the Seed* of the woman.

Attempting to prove that a presupposition is true by pointing to a phrase in a verse that is taken out-of-context rarely, if ever, works, since the Bible, from cover to cover, is the "breathed" word of a single Author .. 2 Timothy 3:16, who has much to say elsewhere in the Bible about Satan. For instance,

Revelation 20
10 The devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
​

God bless you!

--David
p.s. - the "Seed" of the woman spoken of in Genesis 3:15 is the Lord Jesus Christ*.

 

[Der Alte]

Gen 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
Does this verse which is used so early in the bible show there is a time limit on Satan's life and that eternal conscious torment is a false doctrine. It says "all the days of thy life". Sounds like God is telling the devil that his days are numbered and his existance will come to an end, not that he will be tortured endlessly for eternity.

Sometimes I cheat and read the end of the book before I finish the book.

Revelation 19:20
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Revelation 20:10
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.​

I would suggest that before forming an opinion one should read all the pertinent verses. The Greek verb translated "shall be tormented" in Rev 20;10 is plural including the devil. the beast and the false prophet.

 

[FaithWillDo]

Gen 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:


Does this verse which is used so early in the bible show there is a time limit on Satan's life and that eternal conscious torment is a false doctrine. It says "all the days of thy life". Sounds like God is telling the devil that his days are numbered and his existance will come to an end, not that he will be tortured endlessly for eternity.

Dear cwb01,
Satan's days are numbered just like mankind's days are numbered. We ALL must die so that we can be "born again", even Satan. When one is "born again", the old passed away and become a new creature who glorifies God.

Phi 2:10-11 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

This verse can only be true if Satan and the fallen angels are converted, too. How this happens is not revealed to us through scripture. But the outcome of all things is revealed as the above verse states.

In the end, all will be saved, then God will be "all in all".

Joe

 

[cwb01]

Hello @cwb01, first off (since I see that you are a new member), WELCOME TO CF


Attempting to prove that a presupposition is true by pointing to a phrase in a verse that is taken out-of-context rarely, if ever, works, since the Bible, from cover to cover, is the "breathed" word of a single Author .. 2 Timothy 3:16, who has much to say elsewhere in the Bible about Satan. For instance,

Revelation 20
10 The devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
​

God bless you!

--David
p.s. - the "Seed" of the woman spoken of in Genesis 3:15 is the Lord Jesus Christ*.

You are correct. We should not try to prove a presupposition is true by pointing to a phrase in a verse that is taken out-of-context rarely, if ever, works, since the Bible, from cover to cover, is the "breathed" word of a single Author. Seems like you might have done that in quoting Rev. 20:10 -

The devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

We all know the bible can not contradict itself so sometimes we have to see if the words in a verse were translated as they should have been. When we look at the Greek work from which forever is translated, it is the word aiōn. Another place this same word is used is Matthew 13:49.

So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,

The word "world" is also translated from the word aion. The above verse shows clearly there is end to the "aion". A better translation would be "they shall be tormented for ages". There is no contradiction between Gen 3:14 and Rev 20:10. Both show eternal conscious torment as false.

 

[cwb01]

You are correct. We should not try to prove a presupposition is true by pointing to a phrase in a verse that is taken out-of-context rarely, if ever, works, since the Bible, from cover to cover, is the "breathed" word of a single Author. Seems like you might have done that in quoting Rev. 20:10 -

The devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

We all know the bible can not contradict itself so sometimes we have to see if the words in a verse were translated as they should have been. When we look at the Greek work from which forever is translated, it is the word aiōn. Another place this same word is used is Matthew 13:49.

So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,

The word "world" is also translated from the word aion. The above verse shows clearly there is end to the "aion". A better translation would be "they [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] be tormented for ages". There is no contradiction between Gen 3:14 and Rev 20:10. Both show eternal conscious torment as false.

 

[cwb01]

I would suggest that before forming an opinion one should read all the pertinent verses. The Greek verb translated "shall be tormented" in Rev 20;10 is plural including the devil. the beast and the false prophet.

I can assure you that I always read all pertinent verses. Glad you look how Greek words are translated. You should look at how the word forever from Rev 20:10 is translated.

 

[Clare73]

Gen 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:


Does this verse which is used so early in the bible show there is a time limit on Satan's life and that eternal conscious torment is a false doctrine. It says "all the days of thy life". Sounds like God is telling the devil that his days are numbered and his existance will come to an end, not that he will be tortured endlessly for eternity.

God responds to the serpent as an "animal," along with the cattle and the beasts of the field, and curses it as an animal, to crawl on its belly and to eat dirt all the days of its life.

If Satan has taken the form of an animal, then it is Satan whom God is cursing, and Satan, like the angels, is immortal.

 

[cwb01]

God responds to the serpent as an "animal," along with the cattle and the beasts of the field, and curses it as an animal, to crawl on its belly and to eat dirt all the days of its life.

If Satan has taken the form of an animal, then it is Satan whom God is cursing, and Satan, like the angels, is immortal.

Is there any scripture that shows Satan is immortal.

 

[Clare73]

Is there any scripture that shows Satan is immortal.

Are the angels immortal?

Satan is a rebellious and damned angel.

 

[St_Worm2]

Satan's days are numbered just like mankind's days are numbered. We ALL must die so that we can be "born again", even Satan. When one is "born again", the old passed away and become a new creature who glorifies God.

Phi 2:10-11 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

This verse can only be true if Satan and the fallen angels are converted, too. How this happens is not revealed to us through scripture. But the outcome of all things is revealed as the above verse states.

In the end, all will be saved, then God will be "all in all".

Joe

Hi Joe, the demons of the 1st Century were ~already~ bowing the knee at Jesus' Name, confessing who He was, and giving God glory in the process. For instance:

Matthew 8
28 When Jesus came to the other side into the country of the Gadarenes, two men who were demon-possessed met Him as they were coming out of the tombs. They were so extremely violent that no one could pass by that way.
29 And they cried out, saying, “What business do we have with each other, Son of God? Have You come here to torment us before the appointed time?”
30 Now there was a herd of many swine feeding at a distance from them.
31 The demons began to entreat Him, saying, “If You are going to cast us out, send us into the herd of swine.”
32 And He said to them, “Go!” And they came out and went into the swine, and the whole herd rushed down the steep bank into the sea and perished in the waters.

Mark 3
11 Whenever the unclean spirits saw Jesus, they would fall down before Him and shout, “You are the Son of God!”

Luke 8
26 They sailed to the region of the Gerasenes, which is across the lake from Galilee.
27 When Jesus stepped ashore, He was met by a demon-possessed man from the town. For a long time this man had not worn clothes or lived in a house, but had lived in the tombs.
28 When he saw Jesus, he cried out and fell at His feet, shouting at the top of his voice, “What do you want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I beg you, don’t torture me!”
29 For Jesus had commanded the evil spirit to come out of the man. Many times it had seized him, and though he was chained hand and foot and kept under guard, he had broken his chains and had been driven by the demon into solitary places.
30 Jesus asked him, “What is your name?”
“Legion,” he replied, because many demons had gone into him.
31 And they begged Him repeatedly not to order them to go into the Abyss.

Acts 19
13 Some Jews who went around driving out evil spirits tried to invoke the name of the Lord Jesus over those who were demon-possessed. They would say, “In the name of Jesus, whom Paul preaches, I command you to come out.”
14 Seven sons of Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, were doing this.
15 One day the evil spirit answered them, “Jesus I know, and I know about Paul, but who are you?”
16 Then the man who had the evil spirit jumped on them and overpowered them all. He gave them such a beating that they ran out of the house naked and bleeding.

James 2
19 You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.
​

So, the demons were already doing ALL of that, w/o "dying", w/o being "born again", and w/o becoming "new creatures", back in the 1st Century, but their fate in the Abyss remains certain nevertheless.

This also means that Philippians 2:10-11 is true w/o the demons being "born again" and converting to Christianity.

I have a couple more questions from the ideas that you proposed in your post.

1. Where does the Bible tell us (or even allude to the possibility) that demons die?
2. How can a creature who was never "born" to begin with be "born again"?
​

Thanks

--David

 

[FaithWillDo]

Hi Joe, the demons of the 1st Century were ~already~ bowing the knee at Jesus' Name, confessing who He was, and giving God glory in the process. For instance:

Matthew 8
28 When Jesus came to the other side into the country of the Gadarenes, two men who were demon-possessed met Him as they were coming out of the tombs. They were so extremely violent that no one could pass by that way.
29 And they cried out, saying, “What business do we have with each other, Son of God? Have You come here to torment us before the appointed time?”
30 Now there was a herd of many swine feeding at a distance from them.
31 The demons began to entreat Him, saying, “If You are going to cast us out, send us into the herd of swine.”
32 And He said to them, “Go!” And they came out and went into the swine, and the whole herd rushed down the steep bank into the sea and perished in the waters.

Mark 3
11 Whenever the unclean spirits saw Jesus, they would fall down before Him and shout, “You are the Son of God!”

Luke 8
26 They sailed to the region of the Gerasenes, which is across the lake from Galilee.
27 When Jesus stepped ashore, He was met by a demon-possessed man from the town. For a long time this man had not worn clothes or lived in a house, but had lived in the tombs.
28 When he saw Jesus, he cried out and fell at His feet, shouting at the top of his voice, “What do you want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I beg you, don’t torture me!”
29 For Jesus had commanded the evil spirit to come out of the man. Many times it had seized him, and though he was chained hand and foot and kept under guard, he had broken his chains and had been driven by the demon into solitary places.
30 Jesus asked him, “What is your name?”
“Legion,” he replied, because many demons had gone into him.
31 And they begged Him repeatedly not to order them to go into the Abyss.

Acts 19
13 Some Jews who went around driving out evil spirits tried to invoke the name of the Lord Jesus over those who were demon-possessed. They would say, “In the name of Jesus, whom Paul preaches, I command you to come out.”
14 Seven sons of Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, were doing this.
15 One day the evil spirit answered them, “Jesus I know, and I know about Paul, but who are you?”
16 Then the man who had the evil spirit jumped on them and overpowered them all. He gave them such a beating that they ran out of the house naked and bleeding.

James 2
19 You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.
​

So, the demons were already doing ALL of that, w/o "dying", w/o being "born again", and w/o becoming "new creatures", back in the 1st Century, but their fate in the Abyss remains certain nevertheless.

This also means that Philippians 2:10-11 is true w/o the demons being "born again" and converting to Christianity.

I have a couple more questions from the ideas that you proposed in your post.

1. Where does the Bible tell us (or even allude to the possibility) that demons die?
2. How can a creature who was never "born" to begin with be "born again"?
​

Thanks

--David

Dear David,
The truth of scripture is written for God's Elect, the Firstfruits of the harvest of mankind. They are the only ones who are given "eyes that can see". But scripture is also written for another purpose:

Isa 28: 10-12 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. 12 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

Scripture is also written for those who are "called out" from the world so that they will "fall backward and be broken". For that reason, the truth of scripture stays hidden from them so that they cannot find the knowledge of God.

Since scripture is written for mankind, it does not state many details concerning angels/demons but scripture DOES reveal a few things. It does teach that Satan/demons will be judged and saved (restored to the Father). And it even tells us when this happens:

Mat 8:29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?

I believe the "time" the demons are referring to is the Lake of Fire age. It is a time of judgment for the lost which would includes Satan and the demons. However, mankind's understanding of the Lake of Fire is wrong. The Lake of Fire is a spiritual symbol that represents the judgment of Christ. It is not a literal place of fire that lasts for eternity. Christ's judgment lasts only for the "age" and it has a good and loving purpose, as does all the things God does. Here is the purpose:

Isa 1:27 Zion shall be redeemed with judgment, and her converts with righteousness.

Isa 2:4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

Isa 4:4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning.

Isa 26:9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

Isa 61:8 For I the LORD love judgment, I hate robbery for burnt offering; and I will direct their work in truth, and I will make an everlasting covenant with them.

Isa 66:16 For by fire (Christ's judgment) and by his sword (Word of God) will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.

The "slain of the Lord will be many" is speaking of conversion. Our flawed spiritual vessel must be destroyed and a new spiritual vessel created. In other words, the Old Man must die and the New Man must be born. Christ's judgment is a necessary part of the way He converts us. Judgment destroys that which is evil (Old Man) and teaches the new babe in Christ the righteousness of God. Since Satan and the demons are cast into the Lake of fire, their end result will be the same as mankind's which is salvation. Otherwise, these verses cannot be true:

Rev 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

Col 1:16-20 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

The things in "heaven" which are "invisible" surely includes Satan and the demons.

1 Cor 15:20-28 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the consummation, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Satan is said to be an "enemy" in scripture so this verse has to include him. Salvation (life with a restored sinless relationship with the Father) is assured for ALL of God's creation, we just have to wait for Christ to finish His work. Only then will God be "all in all" and Christ's work will be "testified" to be accomplished:

1 Tim 2:3-6 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

As for your two questions:

1. Where does the Bible tell us (or even allude to the possibility) that demons die?

Demons must spiritually die and be made into a new creature in order to be restored to the Father. This is conversion which mankind must likewise experience. Only then can God be "all in all".

2. How can a creature who was never "born" to begin with be "born again"?

Why do you believe that Satan and the demons were not ever born? Certainly they were not physically born the way mankind is, but they were created by God and have a beginning. Scripture says this about Satan:

Job 26:13 By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hand hath formed the crooked serpent.

Isa 54:16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.

Joe