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Gays march through Jerusalem

Discussion in 'News & Current Events' started by StogusMaximus, Jun 7, 2002.

  1. Kristen

    Kristen Blah Blah

    +28
    Christian
    My sister is gay and I have 2 gay uncles...what makes you a expert on homosexuality Seebs? I know people are not born born to be homosexual. I have first hand knowledge.
     
  2. Brimshack

    Brimshack Well-Known Member

    +447
    Atheist
    Knowing someone personally will not tell you to what degree their behavior is genetic. And I don't think Seebs has claimed to be an expert on Homosexuality. Indeed, he is the one saying that the meaning behind certain biblical passages are unclear. Those claiming that homosexuality is 'clearly' a sin are making a stronger authority claim, and those simply dismissing the role of genetics without looking into it are placing far more faith in their own common sense than anything I have heard from Seebs.

    As for Homosexuals trying to absolve thenmselves of sin by gaining human acceptance, that strikes me as a bit of a straw man. I think the idea is more like, they don't believe it is a sin, and so they will not accept human condemnation for a behavior they consider themselves as having a right to.
     
  3. Lion Heart

    Lion Heart Member

    300
    +0
    Tolerance,

    It depends who, and how this word is defined.

    Liberals and those who are open minded, who pass themselves of as christians, want all people including ALL christians to agree with them on the definition they expound to be of GOD.

    By TOLERANCE they mean, "we must tolerate deviations from our moral and doctrinal beliefs to the point of abandoning our beliefs."

    And their definition of Pastoral; is "Anything goes, don't deny anything to anyone except those who accept the TRADITIONAL teachings of the church.

    While teaching this OPENNESS within the church, they mean WE must be open to other prespectives including heretical ones.

    And, if you don't agree with their definition, THEY are intolerant of YOU.

    Amazingly, this is being taught in seminaries TODAY.


    According to a new book, "Goodbye, Goodmen" authored by Michael S. Rose; published by Regnery Publishing, Inc, An Eagle Publishing Co, Wash, D.C.

    Currently he also is the executive director of an internet news magazine and wire service.



    http://Cruxnews.com
     
  4. Brimshack

    Brimshack Well-Known Member

    +447
    Atheist
    Today's wrathful invectives brought to you by Lion Heart, who would like to remind all you folks out there that it's much more gratifying to cast aspersions on your opponents than to engage in thoughtful debate on the subject.

    Have a nice day everybody.
     
  5. Gunny

    Gunny Remnant Supporter

    +85
    Christian
    Married
    The modern worshipers in the latterdays who bow down before the god of diversity and moral relativism.

    GySgt
    James
     
  6. Brimshack

    Brimshack Well-Known Member

    +447
    Atheist
    Cross-apply previous message.
     
  7. Gunny

    Gunny Remnant Supporter

    +85
    Christian
    Married
    The ultra liberal mindset's false idol is their god of diversity wherein they either have no god, create their own god or become their own god thus absolving themselves from sin which they in large part deny but instead view it as an archaic concept that represses their ego-centric behaviors that allow them complete autonomy to do as they please and live by the paganistic slogan:"Do no harm."

    GySgt
    James
     
  8. Brimshack

    Brimshack Well-Known Member

    +447
    Atheist
    Since you'd rather take pop shots at stereotypes than debate real issues Gunny, I won't bother trying to reason with you. Have a nice day.
     
  9. Gunny

    Gunny Remnant Supporter

    +85
    Christian
    Married
    I have not taken any pop shots since being on active duty in the USMC. The Ultra-liberal mindset individual is discussed in scripture concerning the latter days. I don't believe God's Word is streotypical just very descriptive of the nature of man in the latter days.

    You have a fine day too, fine sir.

    GySgt
    James
     
  10. stillsmallvoice

    stillsmallvoice The Narn rule!

    +173
    Judaism
    Married
    Hi all!


    As this forum's resident orthodox Jew & Israeli (I work in downtown Jerusalem), please allow me to add my $0.02.

    (Orthodox) Judaism certainly regards homosexual ACTS as inherently sinful, at all times & under any conditions. While I do not agree with the persecution of homosexuals, neither do I think that homosexuals should, in effect, be rewarded for their behavior (by granting spousal rights to same-sex couples, allowing same-sex couples to adopt children, etc.). Homosexuals marching through Jerusalem & flaunting and glorifying their homosexuality, is like thieves marching through the city, flaunting their theivery. Back in 1991, while I was completing the IDF medics course, it was openly known that the then head of the IDF Medical Corps, was a homosexual. But he was a first-rate doctor & officer & his sexual orientation wasn't a problem.

    Be well!

    ssv
     
  11. seebs

    seebs God Made Me A Skeptic

    +1,462
    Seeker
    Married
    US-Republican
    SSV: Any comments on what other branches of Judaism teach? I've been told that some feel that the prohibitions on homosexual acts referred to Canaanite religious practices, and not necessarily to other acts.

    That said, I agree with you on some things, and disagree with you on others. I think that allowing same-sex couples to adopt children and have the same basic rights (hospital visits, for instance) as other couples is probably the most compassionate thing we can do.

    I think people "flaunting" their homosexuality are merely reacting to persecution... As long as people are telling them that what they *ARE* is sinful (not just something they might do), they will react by making it clear that what they are will not be changing.
     
  12. Lion Heart

    Lion Heart Member

    300
    +0
    Of course the scolars that feel homosexuality is not sinfull are homosexual themselves;
    This could hardly be considered a serious debate of the sunject.

    The scholars refered to are seminarians who have been tutored in liberal seminaries, who teach anything goes, the main thing is bring Gods word to sinners, right!


    Amazing!

    Jesus said "Let no man deceive you" and "..by their fruits ye shall know them."
     
  13. Brimshack

    Brimshack Well-Known Member

    +447
    Atheist
    That's brilliant, Lionheart. If you don't like what someone says, just call them a faery. You are right about one thing; THAT isn't serious debate.
     
  14. Gunny

    Gunny Remnant Supporter

    +85
    Christian
    Married
    The redeemed of the spotless Lamb of God have His Word to tell us how we are to live as we pick up the cross of a Jesus Christ, Lord and Savior, each and everyday.

    GySgt
    James
     
  15. Brimshack

    Brimshack Well-Known Member

    +447
    Atheist
    …and to set yourselves up as judges over your fellow man, pretending your God has commanded every act of hatred that you endorse.
     
  16. stillsmallvoice

    stillsmallvoice The Narn rule!

    +173
    Judaism
    Married
    Hi all!

    Let's see, seebs asked about what other branches of Judaism have to say on homosexuality. Well, since I am an orthodox Jew, I can't & won't try to speak for other Jews. Traditional, normative Judaism is orthodox. (Regarding other so-called "branches" of Judaism, such as "Conservative", "Reform", "Reconstructionist", etc., I'll say that while most of their members may be Jews, what they practice is surely not Judaism.) Yes, the ancient Canaanites practiced both heterosexual & homosexual "sacred" temple prostitution, but the ban on homosexual acts in Leviticus 18:22 is both sweeping & definitive. And if the ban on homosexual acts is related to Canaanite practices, what of it? Leviticus 18:3 warns against against Egyptian & Canaanite practices. Leviticus 17:24-30 warns us that the Land of Israel "vomited out" the Canaanites for their abominable practices & that we must avoid those practices if we want to avoid a similar fate.

    You posted:

    "As long as people are telling them that what they *ARE* is sinful..."

    But Judaism believes that no one is sinful because of what they are, only because of what they may DO. The wording of Leviticus 17:22 is very precise & refers to homosexual ACTS.

    Be well!

    ssv
     
  17. Gunny

    Gunny Remnant Supporter

    +85
    Christian
    Married
    "The highest glory of the American Revolution was this; it connected, in one indissoluble bond the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity." - John Quincy Adams

    Your preconceived notion of my hatred is errant but if it brings you comfort to speak this then by all means proceed, fine sir.

    GySgt
    James
     
  18. Brimshack

    Brimshack Well-Known Member

    +447
    Atheist
    Nothing preconceived about it. You express it with virtually every post. The song you posted about spitting on people's grave for instance, and then you claim that isn't an expression of hatred?

    Your last post before this makes it very clear that you don't regard Christians as answerable to non-Christians in any way, though you reserve the right to tell us what to do. Your comments on the link between Christianity and American also make it clear that you regard non-Christians as second class citizens, and your refusal to discuss any subject with anything but quotes taken out of context, slanderous generalizations, and cryptic remarks makes it clear that you have no respect for anyone that doesn't think like yourself. You have posted nothing but preconceived stereotypes about liberals instead of dealing with what liberals actually have to say, and yet you lecture me about preconceived notions when I have made every attempt to engage you in meaningful debate. Obviously, no-one will ever manage to tell you anything, and you confuse this arrogance with righteousness. Absolutely amazing.
     
  19. Gunny

    Gunny Remnant Supporter

    +85
    Christian
    Married
    "RUN COWARD RUN"



    Deep within this Marine, the hatred I have for you has no cure,
    you ran and let My Country down, and that's for sure ....

    I lived in the jungle where day after day it was death, blood, sweat and tears,
    but you really didn't care about me in Vietnam, for you had no fears ....

    By day and night you'd protest, party, laugh and play,
    while back in Vietnam, "Tom's been killed" I'd hear them say ....

    As a Marine I stand Proud and Tall, from My Country, I'd never run,
    even though I know Vietnam is not a game, nor is it fun ....

    I made alot of friends in Vietnam .... Tom, Bill, Gunner and Joe,
    but to visit them now, to Arlington National Cemetary I must go ....

    One day I stood in silence overlooking the graves of all who died,
    they had served their country with Honor, Dignity and Pride ....

    I cried tears one rainy day in Vietnam until I couldn't see,
    trying to comfort my dying friend, he said to me, "bye Al, remember me" ....

    My close friend had died for his country with Pride, and without shame,
    while you went to Canada thinking this was all a game ....

    Never shall I consider forgiving you for running away,
    to me, your a coward and a disgrace to My Country is all I can say ....

    The hatred embedded within me toward cowards like you,
    will never be forgotten within me, no matter what you say or do ....

    America is My Country, and it's the freedom that I enjoy and love,
    and I will serve My Country again if push comes to shove ....

    To avoid the draft, you deserted My Country to do nothing but hide,
    while American Patriots fight in Vietnam, and many have died ....

    You treated me with great dis-respect and dis-honor when I came back,
    you smoked your weed, called me filthy names, and manners you did lack ....

    War is hell, and we realize that many good men will die,
    It breaks my heart to see parents of KIA's break down and cry ....

    You don't deserve the freedom that I fought to preserve, you ran to hide,
    so stay in Canada cowards, and permanently there reside ....

    This Marine shall NEVER forgive you for running, or forget it,
    without shame or guilt, upon your grave I shall spit ....

    Marine, author's name unknown

    Dear B.,
    I receive many, many e-mails from Vietnam Vets concerning many different things. I was informed by the Vet that sent me this poem that to the best of his knowledge it was found on a dead United States Marine in Quang Tri province.

    Personally, I understand this dead Marine's strong feelings at the time he wrote this in 1969. Many of us actually enlisted into the Armed Services to serve our country during the Vietnam War vs. being drafted. I lost a brother and a uncle in the Vietnam War. They as I enlisted rather than be drafted. When men such as myself were in Vietnam fighting a very unpopular war we grew to have strong feelings for the individuals that were draft dodgers and/or war protesters. We as Vietnam Veterans found out when we came cack to the world(states) we were respected more by the people of Vietnam then our own countrymen.

    When I came back home after three tours of duty in Vietnam I was basically an outcast to the majority of people I had known when I graduated from H.S. and enlisted into the USMC. I was the so-called baby killer, the pychotic Vietnam Vet who took pleasure from witnessing and causing death.

    Dear B., I made no comment concerning your allegiance to your home country I posted a quote, period.
    You make reference to what I am saying to you in a post but in reality you are speculating.

    I have no contention with you. I have no hatred for you. I have great empathy for you, to be sure.

    If you were in Vietnam, and had friends die in your arms you might be more understanding of the poem I posted by a deceased(KIA) Marine brother in arms who as myself were in a far and distant land attempting to serve our country with honor and valor.

    Dear B., You appear to be highly defensive at other message posters other then me, too. I understand because the atheist position is a difficult postion to defend, indeed.

    Once again, I am not so inclined to post messages as you think I should nor am I to be lured into a confrontation with you for individuals supporting the atheist belief system have one heck of a time attempting to state what they belief and why, it is much easier to stand as a martyr and tell of how one is being bullied.

    There is nothing we have to debate about. You are resolute in your atheism belief system and I am resolute in my belief of Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior.

    GySgt
    James
     
  20. StogusMaximus

    StogusMaximus Well-Known Member

    +6
    Protestant
    I am closing this thread for a short intermission.

    Please visit our concession stand for hot buttery popcorn and an ice cold Coca Cola. Bathrooms are located in the lobby.
     
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