Gay Reparations

[yeshuaslavejeff]

No.
The world's use and definition.

That would depend on your definition of "Christian" though, wouldn't it?

 

[Daniel C]

Yes, the serpent whispers down through the ages: "Ye shall not surely die."

Ok what is this supposed to mean in relation to my post?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

"Viewed by society" is not Yahuweh's Way.
i.e. does not lend itself to truth at all.

viewed by society

 

[Halbhh]

One exception is the New York Police Department, which apologized for attacking protesters at Stonewall in 1969.

Imo, that kind of assault is exactly what ought to be compensated for. But not just ordinary prejudices, from which about 95% of us have suffered at times in life. For that one can only work to help people see others as themselves. Or better, as Christ put it:

36 “Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?”

37 The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.”

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

QUOTE= ].... Or better, as Christ put it:

36 “Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?”

37 The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.”[/QUOTE
===================================
This hardly is appropriate, don't you think ? As "open rebuke" is BETTER than hidden love(inappropriate quiet acceptance of wickedness)....

 

[jacks]

I watched a documentary last year about Mātā Amritānandamayī. A Hindu holy woman from the state of Kerala who is revered as a manifestation of God. Her darshan involves hugging people- everyone who wants a hug gets one, without discrimination- including gay and trans people. That really lead me to see that, in comparison , the typical Christian has an impoverished attitude about who is acceptable to love.

O.K. but somehow this doesn't translate to nearly as many gay rights. HERE

 

[FireDragon76]

O.K. but somehow this doesn't translate to nearly as many gay rights. HERE

Most of those countries on that map that are highlighted are Muslim or Christian fundamentalist as the predominant religion.

 

[dzheremi]

Your opinion of "Christian fundamentalist" is a little screwy relative to the map, FireDragon76. It's not like Argentina isn't Catholic (it's in their constitution), yet they are in the green the same as most of Latin America is. It appears that the only country in which LGBT-ism is criminalized in South America is Guayana, which is one of the least Christian countries in the entire region (63%, with a large Hindu minority of about 25%, a Muslim population of 7%, etc.), in comparison to strongholds like Brazil (almost 89% Christian), Peru (~ 90%), or Colombia (92%).

As for Africa, the religious divide between Christians and Muslims should not be underestimated, as shown in the uneven application of law in Nigeria (for instance), with Shari'a law (i.e., death penalty for homosexuality) ruling the Muslim-dominated north. I would imagine this skews the results, in the sense of making it seem like the entire country is like that, even though obviously in Christian areas they won't be doing that. And the article specifies that the Congo recently legalized homosexuality. This is the same Congo that is about 85% Christian.

The places that recently criminalized it seem to be primarily island nations like St. Kitts and Nevis, Barbados, and Kiribati. These are heavily Christian (I mean, the "Kiribati Uniting Church" alone -- whatever that is -- is just over 30% of the population; Barbados is over 95% Christian), but I think the question could reasonably be asked how much their ability to pass these kinds of laws indicates their being outside of the mainstream of western thought on the issue, probably due to their geographical and cultural isolation. It's much easier to find fundamentalism in such small, isolated groups precisely because they have those characteristics, so they don't interact much with others. Take the population of Kiribati or Tuvalu or wherever off their islands and drop them in Belgium or the USA or some other place, and they won't be passing any laws against homosexuality, because the surrounding culture won't have it. This is not so much a defense of Christianity (I don't feel it needs it in this area, nor do I think you'd take it the least bit seriously if such a defense were given, since you have clearly shown unbridled contempt for Christians and the desire to officially muzzle us in public) as it is a guess as to why you see those laws in tiny island nations but not really anywhere else, even in very Christian societies. It's a matter of contact to a wider worldview, not something intrinsic to Christianity, or else you'd expect it to be endemic to Christian societies, but it appears by the map the opposite is more often the case.

 

[FireDragon76]

Your opinion of "Christian fundamentalist" is a little screwy relative to the map, FireDragon76. It's not like Argentina isn't Catholic (it's in their constitution), yet they are in the green the same as most of Latin America is. It appears that the only country in which LGBT-ism is criminalized in South America is Guayana, which is one of the least Christian countries in the entire region (63%, with a large Hindu minority of about 25%, a Muslim population of 7%, etc.), in comparison to strongholds like Brazil (almost 89% Christian), Peru (~ 90%), or Colombia (92%).

As for Africa, the religious divide between Christians and Muslims should not be underestimated, as shown in the uneven application of law in Nigeria (for instance), with Shari'a law (i.e., death penalty for homosexuality) ruling the Muslim-dominated north. I would imagine this skews the results, in the sense of making it seem like the entire country is like that, even though obviously in Christian areas they won't be doing that. And the article specifies that the Congo recently legalized homosexuality. This is the same Congo that is about 85% Christian.

The places that recently criminalized it seem to be primarily island nations like St. Kitts and Nevis, Barbados, and Kiribati. These are heavily Christian (I mean, the "Kiribati Uniting Church" alone -- whatever that is -- is just over 30% of the population; Barbados is over 95% Christian), but I think the question could reasonably be asked how much their ability to pass these kinds of laws indicates their being outside of the mainstream of western thought on the issue, probably due to their geographical and cultural isolation. It's much easier to find fundamentalism in such small, isolated groups precisely because they have those characteristics, so they don't interact much with others. Take the population of Kiribati or Tuvalu or wherever off their islands and drop them in Belgium or the USA or some other place, and they won't be passing any laws against homosexuality, because the surrounding culture won't have it. This is not so much a defense of Christianity (I don't feel it needs it in this area, nor do I think you'd take it the least bit seriously if such a defense were given, since you have clearly shown unbridled contempt for Christians and the desire to officially muzzle us in public) as it is a guess as to why you see those laws in tiny island nations but not really anywhere else, even in very Christian societies. It's a matter of contact to a wider worldview, not something intrinsic to Christianity, or else you'd expect it to be endemic to Christian societies, but it appears by the map the opposite is more often the case.

It definitely seems the more isolated a region or nation is, the more likely it is to be taken in with extremist religious viewpoints.

Perhaps that's why so many Islamic regimes attempt to control access to the media.

 

[jacks]

Most of those countries on that map that are highlighted are Muslim or Christian fundamentalist as the predominant religion.

You might take another look. My point is only that we (not saying you) tend to be hyper critical of what is within our own self made bubbles of criticism and idealize things without. I haven't done much in life, but I have lived and traveled extensively. There are bigots, racists and just plain nasty people all over the world. The US doesn't have a corner on that. I can also say there are many wonderful, loving and thoughtful people everywhere too. Regardless of religious or non religious world views. Claiming whole groups of people are bad (or good) is perhaps the not the most productive approach, if one is truly trying to solve problems or understand an issue. Just my opinion, I don't mean to be causing arguments.

 

[dzheremi]

It definitely seems the more isolated a region or nation is, the more likely it is to be taken in with extremist religious viewpoints.

Is that why Bhutan has a law on the books criminalizing sodomy with up to a year in prison? Hmm. I wouldn't have thought 'religious extremist' Buddhists were much of a thing outside of very specific political cases like the situation in Burma vs. the Rohingya, but maybe that is a thing. Also, it's not like a country like Iran can reasonably be called 'isolated', given its geopolitical importance. 'Not a fan of the United States', sure, but not isolated but by its government's own attempts to police the speech and actions of its people...kind of like some people in this thread who want to silence others for holding viewpoints they don't agree with! (Bonus equality: Iran provides sex change operations to people so that they can live within the strictures of Iran's Islamic society which is very harsh on homosexuality or 'non-gender conforming' identities or whatever.)

 

[durangodawood]

Being spiritual and possessing a soul are not interchangeable ideas. I currently possess a soul yet I have no use for spirituality at all.

Spirituality has a Christian meaning. No use for that?

 

[grasping the after wind]

Spirituality has a Christian meaning. No use for that?

Tell me what you think the Christian meaning is and I will tell you if I have any use for it.

 

[durangodawood]

Tell me what you think the Christian meaning is and I will tell you if I have any use for it.

I'm surprised Christian spirituality has no meaning for you, and you come to a non-Christian for an explanation. The diversity of views on this appears to match the diversity of Christian opinion generally. But as far as I can tell, every flavor of the faith has a notion of spirituality and it seems to center on deepening prayer and openness to the Holy Spirit.

 

[grasping the after wind]

I'm surprised Christian spirituality has no meaning for you, and you come to a non-Christian for an explanation. The diversity of views on this appears to match the diversity of Christian opinion generally. But as far as I can tell, every flavor of the faith has a notion of spirituality and it seems to center on deepening prayer and openness to the Holy Spirit.

I asked you to define what Christian spirituality means to you. I'm looking for a specific concrete idea not a vague notion. The reason I say I have no use for spirituality is that I see what many people call spirituality as something akin to superstition where one attempts to get in touch with a spirit world or spirit dimension that is wholly divorced from physical reality. I don't see that as being true to the basic tenets of Christianity. God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit is not part of a completely different universe , world , dimension but very much in this one in which our current physical existence is but a part. There seems to be about 27 differing definitions of spirituality according to the article in Wikipedia so trying to pin down what anyone actually means by the term spirituality is difficult without them elaborating.

Spirituality
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Jump to navigationJump to search
For the belief in being able to contact the dead, see Spiritualism.
Philosophical / theological term
Part of a series on
Outline


Religion[show]

• History
• Timeline

Traditional[show]

• Christian
  • Catholic
• Mysticism

Modern[show]

• Buddhist modernism
• New religious movement
• "Spiritual but not religious"
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Spiritual experience[show]

• Mystical experience
• Religious experience
• Spiritual practice

Spiritual development[show]

• Ego death
• Individuation
• Spiritual development
• Self-actualization

Influences
Western[show]
General

• Divine illumination
• Pantheism
• Panentheism

Antiquity

• Gnosticism
• Hermeticism
• Neoplatonism
• Western esotericism

Medieval

• Mysticism

Early modern

• Perennial philosophy
• Jakob Böhme
• Emanuel Swedenborg
• Pietism

Modern

• Romanticism
• Transcendentalism
• Universalism
• New Thought
• Theosophy
• Anthroposophy
• Occultism
• Spiritualism
• Esoteric Christianity
• New Age

Orientalist[show]

• Comparative religion
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Asian[show]
Pre-historic

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Iran

• Zoroastrianism

India

• Advaita Vedanta
• Buddha-nature
• Enlightenment
• Madhyamaka
• Neo-Vedanta
• Tantra
• Yoga
• Yogachara

East-Asia

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Other non-Western[show]

• Animism
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Psychological[show]

• Humanistic psychology
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• Self-help
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• True self and false self

Research
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• Mystical psychosis
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• Category

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The meaning of spirituality has developed and expanded over time, and various connotations can be found alongside each other.[1][2][3][note 1]

Traditionally, spirituality referred to a religious process of re-formation which "aims to recover the original shape of man",[note 2] oriented at "the image of God"[4][5] as exemplified by the founders and sacred texts of the religions of the world. The term was used within early Christianity to refer to a life oriented toward the Holy Spirit[6] and broadened during the Late Middle Ages to include mental aspects of life.[7]

In modern times, the term both spread to other religious traditions[8] and broadened to refer to a wider range of experience, including a range of esoteric traditions and religious traditions. Modern usages tend to refer to a subjective experience of a sacred dimension[9] and the "deepest values and meanings by which people live",[10][11] often in a context separate from organized religious institutions,[12] such as a belief in a supernatural (beyond the known and observable) realm,[13] personal growth,[14] a quest for an ultimate or sacred meaning,[15] religious experience,[16] or an encounter with one's own "inner dimension".[17]

 

[Kaon]

I think it's interesting than Spain, of all countries, leads the world in making reparations to the LGBT community for past wrongs, despite the fact that under Franco it had some very repressive policies. It's also noteworthy that, in the US, very few governmental institutions have engaged in any kind of apology for abusing the human rights of LGBT persons. One exception is the New York Police Department, which apologized for attacking protesters at Stonewall in 1969.

Why Gay Reparation’s Time Has Come

In my discussions with some of my friends on this issue, I've said before that really what is needed is a Truth and Reconciliation style movement in the US. This will lead to people changing attitudes as long as they feel they can come forward and apologize without recriminations, and will also allow the horrors experience by LGBT persons to be brought to light to the wider public.

(For America) Gay reparations before African-American and Native reparations?

Interesting...

 

[Hazelelponi]

I think it's interesting than Spain, of all countries, leads the world in making reparations to the LGBT community for past wrongs, despite the fact that under Franco it had some very repressive policies. It's also noteworthy that, in the US, very few governmental institutions have engaged in any kind of apology for abusing the human rights of LGBT persons. One exception is the New York Police Department, which apologized for attacking protesters at Stonewall in 1969.

Why Gay Reparation’s Time Has Come

In my discussions with some of my friends on this issue, I've said before that really what is needed is a Truth and Reconciliation style movement in the US. This will lead to people changing attitudes as long as they feel they can come forward and apologize without recriminations, and will also allow the horrors experience by LGBT persons to be brought to light to the wider public.

My question is, what, on earth, do I owe ANYONE an apology for, exactly?

I apologize if my actions were wrong, always. Yet I've never once in my life lifted a finger - not even a little finger - against the LGBTQ community or any LGBTQ individual person.

Should I apologize because I think (my opinion based on scripture) that homosexuals living in sin apart from Christ are not going to my version of heaven?

I'm fairly certain most people who are homosexual wouldn't care for my God or my version of heaven anyway - it's a lot of worshipping a God they can't stand so I'm fairly certain they aren't exactly heart broken over it..

I'm not apologising to anyone for my faith or my God or my personally held beliefs. And I certainly don't owe anyone a dime when I've never done any harm to anyone but only done my best to offer human kindness to all.

So no.. no "reparations", the idea is my idea of insanity. It's on par with paying black Americans money for the "crime of slavery" when I've never owned a slave and the recipients have never been one.

 

[durangodawood]

I asked you to define what Christian spirituality means to you. I'm looking for a specific concrete idea not a vague notion. The reason I say I have no use for spirituality is that I see what many people call spirituality as something akin to superstition where one attempts to get in touch with a spirit world or spirit dimension that is wholly divorced from physical reality. I don't see that as being true to the basic tenets of Christianity. God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit is not part of a completely different universe , world , dimension but very much in this one in which our current physical existence is but a part. There seems to be about 27 differing definitions of spirituality according to the article in Wikipedia so trying to pin down what anyone actually means by the term spirituality is difficult without them elaborating.

Spirituality
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Jump to navigationJump to search
For the belief in being able to contact the dead, see Spiritualism.
Philosophical / theological term
Part of a series on
Outline


Religion[show]

• 
  
  
  • History
  • Timeline

Traditional[show]

• 
  
  
  • Christian
    • Catholic
  • Mysticism

Modern[show]

• 
  
  
  • Buddhist modernism
  • New religious movement
  • "Spiritual but not religious"
  • Syncretism

Spiritual experience[show]

• 
  
  
  • Mystical experience
  • Religious experience
  • Spiritual practice

Spiritual development[show]

• 
  
  
  • Ego death
  • Individuation
  • Spiritual development
  • Self-actualization

Influences
Western[show]
General

• 
  
  
  • Divine illumination
  • Pantheism
  • Panentheism

Antiquity

• 
  
  
  • Gnosticism
  • Hermeticism
  • Neoplatonism
  • Western esotericism

Medieval

• 
  
  
  • Mysticism

Early modern

• 
  
  
  • Perennial philosophy
  • Jakob Böhme
  • Emanuel Swedenborg
  • Pietism

Modern

• 
  
  
  • Romanticism
  • Transcendentalism
  • Universalism
  • New Thought
  • Theosophy
  • Anthroposophy
  • Occultism
  • Spiritualism
  • Esoteric Christianity
  • New Age

Orientalist[show]

• 
  
  
  • Comparative religion
  • Neo-Advaita
  • Nondualism
  • Orientalism
  • Theosophical Society

Asian[show]
Pre-historic

• 
  
  
  • Proto-Indo-Iranian religion

Iran

• 
  
  
  • Zoroastrianism

India

• 
  
  
  • Advaita Vedanta
  • Buddha-nature
  • Enlightenment
  • Madhyamaka
  • Neo-Vedanta
  • Tantra
  • Yoga
  • Yogachara

East-Asia

• 
  
  
  • Taoism

Other non-Western[show]

• 
  
  
  • Animism
  • Shamanism
  • Totemism

Psychological[show]

• 
  
  
  • Humanistic psychology
  • Mindfulness
  • Positive psychology
  • Self-help
  • Self-realization
  • True self and false self

Research
Neurological[show]

• 
  
  
  • Mystical psychosis
  • Cognitive science of religion
  • Neuroscience of religion
  • Geschwind syndrome
  • Evolutionary psychology of religion

• 
  
  
  • Category

• 
  
  
  • v
  • t
  • e

The meaning of spirituality has developed and expanded over time, and various connotations can be found alongside each other.[1][2][3][note 1]

Traditionally, spirituality referred to a religious process of re-formation which "aims to recover the original shape of man",[note 2] oriented at "the image of God"[4][5] as exemplified by the founders and sacred texts of the religions of the world. The term was used within early Christianity to refer to a life oriented toward the Holy Spirit[6] and broadened during the Late Middle Ages to include mental aspects of life.[7]

In modern times, the term both spread to other religious traditions[8] and broadened to refer to a wider range of experience, including a range of esoteric traditions and religious traditions. Modern usages tend to refer to a subjective experience of a sacred dimension[9] and the "deepest values and meanings by which people live",[10][11] often in a context separate from organized religious institutions,[12] such as a belief in a supernatural (beyond the known and observable) realm,[13] personal growth,[14] a quest for an ultimate or sacred meaning,[15] religious experience,[16] or an encounter with one's own "inner dimension".[17]

Ah I see. I just thought it was strange that a Christian would have no room for "Christian spirituality" according to any of the traditional (not new-age) understandings of the idea.

Not sure I understand your idea that our physical matter and Holy Spirit share the same plane of existence. I mean, the latter seems so inaccessible at times according to many earnest Christians. "Dark night of the soul" and so on.

 

[rjs330]

Apologize for what?

I was wondering the same thing. I mean if we as a nation enslaved them or out them on reaervations, broke treaties etc, I can see why we should apologize.

 

[rjs330]

I don't think we react badly to things we don't have an instinctive fear of. People don't flip out about spiders without there being a real fear behind that.

I really don't know why we're pretending that homophobia doesn't exist. Even a generation ago, it wasn't uncommon for teenagers to whisper that "so-and-so must be gay," and use that as a weapon when bullying people.

I don't care if people think homosexual activity is a sin or not, but we've never had schoolchildren wandering around laughing that their classmates must be drunkards or gamblers.

But that's still not fear. That's bullying someone who's different. Like bullying the fat kid. They were afraid of him. They were just bullies to people who were "different".