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Featured Gay Marriage

Discussion in 'Christian Philosophy & Ethics' started by AmusingMargaret, Jun 14, 2017.

  1. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    Oh, those are historical accounts in Acts. They are included for historical
    reference only. Like telling women to Shut-Up in church.
    They didn't have the new Testament passages that explained that
    government is set up by God.

    John 19:11
    Verse Concepts
    Jesus answered, "You would have no authority over Me, unless it had been given you from above; for this reason he who delivered Me to you has the greater sin."

    Romans 13:1
    Verse Concepts
    Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God.

    Romans 13:4
    Verse Concepts
    for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil.

    Romans 13:6
    Verse Concepts
    For because of this you also pay taxes, for rulers are servants of God, devoting themselves to this very thing.

    1 Peter 2:13-14
    Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether to a king as the one in authority, or to governors as sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and the praise of those who do right.

    Acts 25:11
    Verse Concepts
    "If, then, I am a wrongdoer and have committed anything worthy of death, I do not refuse to die; but if none of those things is true of which these men accuse me, no one can hand me over to them. I appeal to Caesar."

    Romans 13:3-4
    For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good and you will have praise from the same; for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil.

    1 Timothy 2:2
    Verse Concepts
    for kings and all who are in authority, so that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity.

    Matthew 17:24-27
    When they came to Capernaum, those who collected the two-drachma tax came to Peter and said, "Does your teacher not pay the two-drachma tax?" He said, "Yes." And when he came into the house, Jesus spoke to him first, saying, "What do you think, Simon? From whom do the kings of the earth collect customs or poll-tax, from their sons or from strangers?" When Peter said, "From strangers," Jesus said to him, "Then the sons are exempt.

    Matthew 22:15-21
    Then the Pharisees went and plotted together how they might trap Him in what He said. And they sent their disciples to Him, along with the Herodians, saying, "Teacher, we know that You are truthful and teach the way of God in truth, and defer to no one; for You are not partial to any. "Tell us then, what do You think? Is it lawful to give a poll-tax to Caesar, or not?"

    Mark 12:13-17
    Then they sent some of the Pharisees and Herodians to Him in order to trap Him in a statement. They came and said to Him, "Teacher, we know that You are truthful and defer to no one; for You are not partial to any, but teach the way of God in truth. Is it lawful to pay a poll-tax to Caesar, or not? "Shall we pay or shall we not pay?" But He, knowing their hypocrisy, said to them, "Why are you testing Me? Bring Me a denarius to look at."

    Luke 20:20-25
    So they watched Him, and sent spies who pretended to be righteous, in order that they might catch Him in some statement, so that they could deliver Him to the rule and the authority of the governor. They questioned Him, saying, "Teacher, we know that You speak and teach correctly, and You are not partial to any, but teach the way of God in truth. "Is it lawful for us to pay taxes to Caesar, or not?"

    Acts 5:29
    Verse Concepts
    But Peter and the apostles answered, "We must obey God rather than men.

    1 Kings 21:2-3
    Ahab spoke to Naboth, saying, "Give me your vineyard, that I may have it for a vegetable garden because it is close beside my house, and I will give you a better vineyard than it in its place; if you like, I will give you the price of it in money." But Naboth said to Ahab, "The LORD forbid me that I should give you the inheritance of my fathers."

    Matthew 22:21
    Verse Concepts
    They said to Him, "Caesar's." Then He said to them, "Then render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's; and to God the things that are God's."

    Mark 12:17
    Verse Concepts
    And Jesus said to them, "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's." And they were amazed at Him.

    Luke 20:25
    Verse Concepts
    And He said to them, "Then render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's."

    Acts 4:19
    Verse Concepts
    But Peter and John answered and said to them, "Whether it is right in the sight of God to give heed to you rather than to God, you be the judge;
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2017
  2. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    Last edited: Jun 23, 2017
  3. dayhiker

    dayhiker Mature veteran

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    In the situation of the original post, I'd encourage them to stay married. Just as Paul encouraged a believer to not leave the unbelieving spouse.
     
  4. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 Ship of Fools Supporter

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    Nobody is demanding you personally enter a gay marriage, if you find it distasteful.
     
  5. dentonz

    dentonz Regular Member

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    Legal marriage has nothing to do with Biblical marriage. Can two men or two women consummate their marriage to become joined as one in the eyes of God? If they can't, then they were never "married".
     
  6. zippy2006

    zippy2006 Dragonsworn

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  7. rjs330

    rjs330 Well-Known Member

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    None of that states that man's laws take priority over God's. If God says thou shalt not commit murder but then a country passes a law that says we should kill gay people then do you think we should obey and kill gay people? No we should obey God rather than man.
     
  8. Daniel Marsh

    Daniel Marsh Well-Known Member

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    And, when the Law says you are not allowed to preach the gospel?

    or for your church to read the Bible?

    or tells you what verses of the Bible you are not allowed to expound on?

    I agree God's laws rule over governments.
     
  9. rjs330

    rjs330 Well-Known Member

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    Those are very good questions. But we are not talking about people born with both sets of genitals. We are talking about homosexuals. The thing is a society is fully able to say homosexuals can get married. But God says practicing homosexuality is a sin. He also calls a marriage one between man and a woman. Since he does not recognize a homosexual marriage as legitimate divorce for them is a civil matter not a spiritual one. They are not committing sin by divorcing but are committing sin by practicing homosexuality.
     
  10. rjs330

    rjs330 Well-Known Member

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    That passage has nothing to do with recognizing sin in others. It has to do with forgiveness of sin and repentance and love of Christ. As people we all are sinners but those that recognize the depth of their own sin and come to Christ with the humility of this woman are forgiven. They were asking why Jesus accepting this terrible sinner. Which is what Jesus does. He doesn't reject anyone who comes to him with the same heart as this woman. She showed the depth of her love for him by what she did. Practicing homosexuals are welcome to repent and come to Jesus just like every other person in this world. They are sinners just like all of the rest of us. Any one of us may not have practiced homosexuality but we have all practiced other things that have separated us from God.
     
  11. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    And I do imagine that you have sin in your life, and I don't imagine that I can see it or label
    it in you or in others. I don't ask anyone to repent of what I imagine are their sins against God.

    They will come to God if God chooses and they will only repent
    of what THEY know to be sins.....not your list.
     
  12. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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  13. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    There are no passages where God recognizes that you are able to
    identify sin in other people.

    58 Bible verses about Sinners
    27 Bible verses about Judging Others


    Deuteronomy 16:18-20


    "You shall appoint for yourself judges and officers in all your towns which the LORD your God is giving you, according to your tribes, and they shall judge the people with righteous judgment.
     
  14. rjs330

    rjs330 Well-Known Member

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    Judging others has nothing to do with recognizing sin in one another. Those outside if Christ are lost end of story. They are condemned already. I don't need to judge them they are already judged as sinners and lost no matter what sins they are involved in. However we are to recognize sinful behaviors of those claiming to be believers. If you say I am a believer but live sinfully I as a fellow believer are to go to you as my brother or sister and point out the sin in your life for the purpose of encouraging you to get in right relationship with God. We do it not to condemn but to restore. Homosexuals outside the body of Christ are lost not because they are homosexuals but because they haven't come to Christ and accepted homas their Lord and Savior. They are no different than anyone else who hasn't accepted Christ. Practicing homosexuals within the body of Christ are to be spoken with by the other believers just like any other believer who is practicing any other sin and be helped and encouraged to repent and stop sinning before they are removed from salvation. If they continue to walk in sin then they can be removed from the church.
     
  15. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    You can't preach your way out of this one.
    Yes, Judging others is solely about identifying sin in others.
    There are no passages where God recognizes that you
    are able to identify sin in any other other people.

    27 Bible verses about Judging Others
     
  16. rjs330

    rjs330 Well-Known Member

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    Actually you are incorrect.
    I wrote to you in my earlier letter not to associate with sexually immoral people.But I wasn’t talking about the sexually immoral people in the outside world by any means—or the greedy, or the swindlers, or people who worship false gods—otherwise, you would have to leave the world entirely!But now I’m writing to you not to associate with anyone who calls themselves “brother” or “sister” who is sexually immoral, greedy, someone who worships false gods, an abusive person, a drunk, or a swindler. Don’t even eat with anyone like this.What do I care about judging outsiders? Isn’t it your job to judge insiders?God will judge outsiders. Expel the evil one from among you! - 1 Corinthians 5:9-13 Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 5:9-13 - Common English Bible

    That is just one there are others. Those that like to use the don't judge thinking are pulling verses out of context most often. Scripture is used to reprove and exhort. Jesus himself told us himself that we can recognize fault in others. We are prohibited from being self righteous we are not prohibited from seeing sin in fellow believers and speaking to them about it.

    Jesus replied, “I did one work, and you were all astonished.Because Moses gave you the commandment about circumcision (although it wasn’t Moses but the patriarchs), you circumcise a man on the Sabbath.If a man can be circumcised on the Sabbath without breaking Moses’ Law, why are you angry with me because I made an entire man well on the Sabbath?Don’t judge according to appearances. Judge with right judgment.” - John 7:21-24 Bible Gateway passage: John 7:21-24 - Common English Bible

    Jesus was speaking to people who were judging him on the law and Jesus told them don't just judge on the law but judge righteously.

    Paul says if we catch someone sinning we are to go to them and restore them to right living. If we are not to see sinful behavior how can we do that? How can we reprove or rebuke others if we are not allowed to see sin in our fellow believers?

    We can, but we must also be self examining as well. To say I am wonderful and you are not is self righteous. To say you are dinning brother and you must get right is not as long as we recognize and acknowledge that we too need to be rebuked at times. I come out of live and concern for your well being not out of a heart that says I am so much better than you. That would be wrong.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2017
  17. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    And that would be judging by appearances. Also not allowed.
    And not attending church, I don't judge.
    But having attended church, there is no difference.
    It's people outside the church who walk in and are found inside.
    I've never been able to spot any differences.
    According to Josh McDowells research, there is no difference.
    So any misguided efforts at treating people different than
    you would like them to treat you, gets one no results, in reality.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2017
  18. rjs330

    rjs330 Well-Known Member

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    You misunderstand. The church is not a building. The church is the body of Christ believers. We can and are to judge each other as believers or those that claim to be believers. An unbeliever who walks into our building is not to be judged for they are judge's already. They are lost and in need of a savior. We should look at the that way and try and share with them the live of Christ and leave judging out of it. But once they become a believer we are to help them grow in Christ and sometimes that means we have to point out sin in their lives in order to help them. Then we have be prepared for them to point out sin in our lives in order to help us. It's our responsibility to look after one another in love because it is NOT loving to let a brother or sister walk in sin where they fall away from the Lord and lose their salvation over it. We must try and help each other to stay on the straight and narrow. But we MUST do it in a humble loving fashion recognizing that we may fall into the exact same thing. I think often that is missing in the church. There is too much self righteousness and not enough humility.

    Brothers and sisters, if a person is caught doing something wrong, you who are spiritual should restore someone like this with a spirit of gentleness. Watch out for yourselves so you won’t be tempted too.Carry each other’s burdens and so you will fulfill the law of Christ. - Galatians 6:1-2 Bible Gateway passage: Galatians 6:1-2 - Common English Bible
     
  19. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    You do not have the authorization to do this.

    Romans 14:10
    Why do you pass judgment on your brother?
     
  20. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    You misunderstand. "Caught in a sin" is about them suffering,
    not a police action by you, catching them red-handed.

    A sin is in the mind of the beholder and their personal walk with
    God, not others.
     
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