"Gathering Storm" Ad in Iowa

[Wyzaard]

It is only fair, in my opinion, if we are going to hold men accountable (and I think we should) for their children and the women who have to go through so much to bring children into this world, that he ought to be allowed a defining role in the woman and the child's life in return.

Patriarchy isn't "fair" by any reasonable estimation.

I would oppose any such scheme as this by any means necessary.

 

[LightHorseman]

Originally Posted by Shane Roach

What should we do when people have a kid out of wedlock?​

I have 2. What do you think you need to do?
​

 

[brightmorningstar]

To Beechy,

Why shouldn't they be treated the same?

For the reasons I have given. Why should they be treated the same?

 

[LightHorseman]

To Beechy,
For the reasons I have given. Why should they be treated the same?

Because for all important intents and purposes, they ARE the same.

Equal treatment should be the default position. People shouldn't have to PROVE they deserve equal treatment, it should be the presumption until it can be clearly demonstrated equality is inappropriate.

 

[BigBadWlf]

To Beechy,
For the reasons I have given. Why should they be treated the same?

The same reason black people should be treated as white people
The same reason Jews should be treated as Christians
The same reason the left-handed should be treated as the right handed

SO…why don’t you tell us just why should a minority be subjected to discrimination?

 

[BigBadWlf]

Because for all important intents and purposes, they ARE the same.

Equal treatment should be the default position. People shouldn't have to PROVE they deserve equal treatment, it should be the presumption until it can be clearly demonstrated equality is inappropriate.

great post

 

[Archer93]

No one argues reproduction is the issue though. Gay marriage activists make that up. We argue that marriage is about reproduction among many things, and that since it is indeed about that there needs to be the preservation of that unique concept in the laws surrounding it.

I've asked this before but haven't had an answer- what is this unique concept that applies to heterosexual parents but not to homosexual ones? Parents who have both contributed genetically to the child they are raising and adoptive parents both have exactly the same legal responsibility to the child in question.

This is the hilarious thing. That does not exist anymore thanks to this same sort of anti-marriage political ploy. We were told no fault divorces would help women, and instead women are still in the same position they have ever been. They still even stay in violent relationships for money, and statistically those violent relationships tend to be the ones who are not married.

Yet they still have all the same vulnerabilities and needs they have ever had, but we are not allowed to distinguish between those unequal relationships vs perfectly balanced homosexual relationships because gays delicate sensitivities are offended any time someone points out they are slightly different.

So who cares about battered women or kids needing role models. Let's just make the gays happy!

I find myself suddenly converted! After all, that's the only viewpoint allowed around here anymore.

Actually, I would like it very much if you would distinguish between a violent heterosexual relationship and a well-balanced homosexual one.
What you are not presenting at all is why there should be any legal difference between well balance heterosexual and homosexual ones.
If one partner is being abused, there should (I feel) be ways to help them, regardless of the gender make-up of the relationship.
How would recognising same-sex marriage prevent one from aiding battered women?
As for rolemodels- very few people live in a social vacuum. There are aunts, uncles, friends of both sexes arround who are more than capable of being rolemodels for the children. The more rolemodels the better I say. They don't have to be genetically related, just positive. Consider that a bad rolemodel in the form of an abusive father will be worse for a child than a good rolemodel in the form of an uncle.

 

[brightmorningstar]

To BigBadwlf

The same reason black people should be treated as white people

No, black people should be treated as black people and white people as white people… but should have the same rights.
However same sex couples should not be treated as married couples.

The same reason Jews should be treated as Christians

Nope Jews should be treated as Jews and Christians as Christians, but have the same rights. However same sex couples should not be treated as married couples or have the same rights.

The same reason the left-handed should be treated as the right handed

Nope. Left handed people should be treated as left handed people and have things like left handed guitars. But they should have the same rights. However same sex couples should not be treated as married couples or have the same rights.

SO…why don’t you tell us just why should a minority be subjected to discrimination?

So why do you discriminate against reality?

 

[b&wpac4]

To BigBadwlf
No, black people should be treated as black people and white people as white people… but should have the same rights.
However same sex couples should not be treated as married couples.
Nope Jews should be treated as Jews and Christians as Christians, but have the same rights. However same sex couples should not be treated as married couples or have the same rights.
Nope. Left handed people should be treated as left handed people and have things like left handed guitars. But they should have the same rights. However same sex couples should not be treated as married couples or have the same rights.

Ok, let me ask this:

What is the difference in the way you treat a white person and a black person?

A Jew and a Christian?

A right handed person and a left handed person?

In what way do you treat these people differently just based on that one trait?

 

[brightmorningstar]

To b&wpac4,
Same as you by the looks of it you recognise one is black and one is white, one Jewish and one Christian and one left handed and one righthanded.
But one of these is inborn, probably two and the other is a choice.

However a same sex couple is a dysfunctional sexual partnership and shouldn't be treated like a male female one. Let me ask you why they should. Imagine you have a fertile same sex couple and a fertile male/female couple. The latter is obviously what God has created (or nature for the athiest) to be in union.

 

[b&wpac4]

To b&wpac4,
Same as you by the looks of it you recognise one is black and one is white, one Jewish and one Christian and one left handed and one righthanded.
But one of these is inborn, probably two and the other is a choice.

Ok, let's try this again:

In what way do you TREAT white people differently than black people? Yes, they have different skin pigmentation, how does that EFFECT THE WAY YOU TREAT THEM?

I swear I'm speaking English here.

 

[beechy]

To Beechy,
For the reasons I have given. Why should they be treated the same?

Because there is nothing to warrant their unequal treatment.

If you're Christian and your neighbor is Taoist, should the law treat you the same or different?

 

[beechy]

To BigBadwlf
No, black people should be treated as black people and white people as white people… but should have the same rights.
However same sex couples should not be treated as married couples.
Nope Jews should be treated as Jews and Christians as Christians, but have the same rights. However same sex couples should not be treated as married couples or have the same rights.
Nope. Left handed people should be treated as left handed people and have things like left handed guitars. But they should have the same rights. However same sex couples should not be treated as married couples or have the same rights.

So why do you discriminate against reality?

Why do you believe everyone should have equal rights except for gay people?

 

[LittleNipper]

So, how does the California doctor have to choose between faith and job because of same sex marriage?

The New Jersey case has been discussed to death. They opened the land to be rented by EVERYBODY and could not then discriminate who rented it without justifiable cause. All they had to do was restrict who they rented land to from the beginning, but they didn't. They were greedy and had to comply with the law.

The rest of them are just insane. If they want to teach their children that homosexual marriage is bad, why don't they just do that? Schools are usually trying to teach tolerance and understanding.

Tolerance and understanding does not in anyway mean that all opinions/values are equal in nature. It only allows time for consideration or a hearing of such, at which time one may evaluate/conclude an opinion or value to be selfish, dangerous, etc.

 

[Mercy Medical]

To b&wpac4,
Same as you by the looks of it you recognise one is black and one is white, one Jewish and one Christian and one left handed and one righthanded.
But one of these is inborn, probably two and the other is a choice.

However a same sex couple is a dysfunctional sexual partnership and shouldn't be treated like a male female one. Let me ask you why they should. Imagine you have a fertile same sex couple and a fertile male/female couple. The latter is obviously what God has created (or nature for the athiest) to be in union.

Actually, my sexual partnership with my girlfriend is very functional...thank you very much.

 

[b&wpac4]

Tolerance and understanding does not in anyway mean that all opinions/values are equal in nature. It only allows time for consideration or a hearing of such, at which time one may evaluate/conclude an opinion or value to be selfish, dangerous, etc.

Why are yours correct and other's wrong?