Thatgirloncfforums

Well-Known Member
Sep 28, 2021
1,823
737
43
Nowhere
✟40,622.00
Country
United States
Faith
Generic Orthodox Christian
Marital Status
Private
Orthodox heaven is similar to Catholic heaven. Dancing is Greek rather than flamenco :)
5f992aacd8b559001cea1218.jpg
Haha!
 
Upvote 0

aiki

Regular Member
Feb 16, 2007
10,874
4,348
Winnipeg
✟236,528.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
as I point out and keep pointing out, Jesus played a sport with Jacob,

??? I have no idea what you're talking about. Do you mean when Jacob wrestled all night with the angel of the Lord? You think they were just "playing a sport" together? What about the story indicated that to you? Wow.

God designed the entire idea of having fun and playing games,

Hang on. God gave us creativity, and imagination, and a sense of humor and of fun, but what we've done to satisfy these aspects of who are is our work, not His. Many, many of the things humans have developed as entertainment God despises (ie. inappropriate content, prostitution, hyper-violent "sports," tormenting the weak, drug abuse, etc.). The idea of entertainment and game playing was our idea, not God's. He gave us the "raw materials" to "build" but we decided what sort of "house" we'd make from them.

Fathers play with their children, fathers give them the toys to play with teach them games, and play with their children.

This is a category error. You can't properly infer from humans to God as though there is a direct equivalency. We aren't God; we aren't anywhere remotely close in nature to Him. We share some very minor traits, enabling us to interact with Him, but God is transcendent, above and beyond in enormously significant ways to us and the entire universe. So, arguing as though there is a direct parallel between how earthly fathers interact with their children and how we interact with our heavenly Father misunderstands this profoundly. And, again, those things God says to us in His word are His priorities for us, don't include playing a lot of games.

I'll be blunt, the more you make God out to be some unrelatable aloof transcendent lofty exalted being, the less I love the god you talk about.

Friend, this is irrelevant. It doesn't matter to me what sort of God you wish God was, nor, I think, does it matter to Him. What is crucial is that the God revealed in the Bible is the God you actually know, not your preferred version of Him that caters to your likes and dislikes. God comes to us as He is; take Him or leave Him. He doesn't flex and bend to suit you or me; we bend to suit Him.

Because Jesus was a person who related to other people, and spoke to His disciples as friends, who had compassion on other people.

??? Yes. Where I have stated otherwise?

It's Islam that teaches an unrelatable all powerful tyrant. I can't love Allah.

??? I have not pointed to such a god. I have simply stated what Scripture reveals of God - a God very different from Allah. Love Him, not your personal version of Him.
 
Upvote 0

Jamdoc

Watching and Praying Always
Oct 22, 2019
7,370
2,301
43
Helena
✟203,883.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
??? I have no idea what you're talking about. Do you mean when Jacob wrestled all night with the angel of the Lord? You think they were just "playing a sport" together? What about the story indicated that to you? Wow.

Yes, this, it never says the angel of the Lord, though Jesus is commonly associated with the Angel of the LORD in the old Testament.

24 And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day.
25 And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him.
26 And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me.
27 And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob.
28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.
29 And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there.
30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

As for the "sport" they were set up in camp, and he physically wrestled a man, and there was no hate or really combat to it, it did seem like they were wrestling for sport.

Hang on. God gave us creativity, and imagination, and a sense of humor and of fun, but what we've done to satisfy these aspects of who are is our work, not His. Many, many of the things humans have developed as entertainment God despises (ie. inappropriate content, prostitution, hyper-violent "sports," tormenting the weak, drug abuse, etc.). The idea of entertainment and game playing was our idea, not God's. He gave us the "raw materials" to "build" but we decided what sort of "house" we'd make from them.

While this is true, it does not mean that all games are evil, and at the very least, the concept of a game or sport, is not evil. Wrestling is a physical sport and as the example in Genesis showed.. God was willing to engage in it for sport, and even blessed Jacob, giving him a new name. Wrestling is also a game and form of play that is displayed across many mammals, dogs, otters, cats, primates, it's something God designed them to do.
I'm not saying that God is going to be having us play Grand Theft Auto in eternity, but that I do believe that God will actually play with us, I don't know what games or sports... probably ones that He Himself invents.
as I said.. it's not at all uncommon that a father is the one who teaches their children the games they play together, and often, there are lessons that go beyond the game that apply to life, in how to treat other people. Yeah you may think you're a mature adult... but think about who we're relating to here, we're babes.
You may consider play to be vain, well, it can be, it can also be just as much of a way to celebrate something as singing.
But singing can also be a vain practice. In fact, most the singing done by people, is just as much of a vain practice as any of the games we play.
But you'd probably never besmirch the act of singing itself the way you do playing games or recreational activities.

This is a category error. You can't properly infer from humans to God as though there is a direct equivalency. We aren't God; we aren't anywhere remotely close in nature to Him. We share some very minor traits, enabling us to interact with Him, but God is transcendent, above and beyond in enormously significant ways to us and the entire universe. So, arguing as though there is a direct parallel between how earthly fathers interact with their children and how we interact with our heavenly Father misunderstands this profoundly. And, again, those things God says to us in His word are His priorities for us, don't include playing a lot of games.

Is that so? Then why does Jesus make the comparison to God in the same manner as earthly fathers throughout His ministry? God is a person and He wants to be known to us, He lowers Himself to reveal Himself to us, and wants relationship with us. The relationship between God and men as described by Jesus has components that are like King/Master and servant, but also just as often, like Father and children.

The way you describe God, is closer to the way a Muslim describes Allah, than the relational God in the bible.

Friend, this is irrelevant. It doesn't matter to me what sort of God you wish God was, nor, I think, does it matter to Him. What is crucial is that the God revealed in the Bible is the God you actually know, not your preferred version of Him that caters to your likes and dislikes. God comes to us as He is; take Him or leave Him. He doesn't flex and bend to suit you or me; we bend to suit Him.

??? Yes. Where I have stated otherwise?

??? I have not pointed to such a god. I have simply stated what Scripture reveals of God - a God very different from Allah. Love Him, not your personal version of Him.

You are though. The God in the bible related to people you are talking about someone unrelatable.
Almost exactly the way a Muslim talks about Allah.

You can't love a person you can't relate with, I mean being able to relate to someone is how you love them in the first place.

Yes we don't understand everything about Him, but, much through the bible God expresses relatable emotions, relatable actions.
 
Upvote 0

aiki

Regular Member
Feb 16, 2007
10,874
4,348
Winnipeg
✟236,528.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Yes, this, it never says the angel of the Lord, though Jesus is commonly associated with the Angel of the LORD in the old Testament.

The phrase "angel of the Lord" I use generically to refer to the pre-incarnate Christ.

As for the "sport" they were set up in camp, and he physically wrestled a man, and there was no hate or really combat to it, it did seem like they were wrestling for sport.

Jacob was "left alone," his group having moved across the "ford of Jabbok" with all their goods. He did not wrestle with a man in the midst of his caravan. And why wrestle for the entire night? Even for a short time, wrestling is exhausting. The reason is clear when Jacob, who seemed to have a sense of the divine character of his opponent, seeks a blessing from him ("I will not let you go unless you bless me" - Genesis 32:26), a promise from God that he would be all right in his meeting with his brother Esau. Jacob was scared and desperate ("Please deliver me from the hand of my brother, from the hand of Esau, for I fear him, that he may come and attack me" - Genesis 32:11) and willing to strive for hours with God to get this promise, if he could. I don't, then, see at all that what happened in this account was mere sport.

While this is true, it does not mean that all games are evil,

I've never said that "all games are evil."

and at the very least, the concept of a game or sport, is not evil.

I've not said that it was.

Wrestling is a physical sport and as the example in Genesis showed.. God was willing to engage in it for sport,

Nowhere does the account indicate they wrestled for sport. Instead, Jacob was afraid for his life and for the lives of those in his caravan and in this context he wrestled with the angel of the Lord and sought from him a blessing of protection from Esau.

Wrestling is also a game and form of play that is displayed across many mammals, dogs, otters, cats, primates, it's something God designed them to do.

Some animals also eat their young, or their own feces, and engage in pseudo-homosexual behaviour. Chimps have been known to attack, kill and eat neighboring groups of chimpanzees; sharks forcibly copulate; eagles steal fish from bears.

I'm not saying that God is going to be having us play Grand Theft Auto in eternity, but that I do believe that God will actually play with us, I don't know what games or sports... probably ones that He Himself invents.

In the descriptions of heaven the Bible offers, such a thing is not even hinted at. The glory and power of God, His purity and light, are so awesome, so overwhelming, that He occupies fully the interest of all those in His heavenly home. No games needed. It's hard to imagine, eh? That God could be so amazing, so incredible, that we want nothing more than to be in His presence and to glorify Him. Sadly, God has been so diminished in the minds of His children that they can't imagine that He alone could possibly be fully satisfying.

You may consider play to be vain, well, it can be, it can also be just as much of a way to celebrate something as singing.

The things we tell ourselves in order to continue to do what we want to do...

But singing can also be a vain practice. In fact, most the singing done by people, is just as much of a vain practice as any of the games we play.
But you'd probably never besmirch the act of singing itself the way you do playing games or recreational activities.

That depends upon the sort of singing you're talking about. Some singing is utterly morally vile; some is totally blasphemous; some is idiotic. I don't think God takes pleasure in singing of this sort, do you?

Is that so? Then why does Jesus make the comparison to God in the same manner as earthly fathers throughout His ministry? God is a person and He wants to be known to us, He lowers Himself to reveal Himself to us, and wants relationship with us. The relationship between God and men as described by Jesus has components that are like King/Master and servant, but also just as often, like Father and children.

We are made in God's image so that we might interact with Him and in a limited measure understand Him. But it is clear that, when God is framed in human terms in the Bible, there is anthropomorphization taking place. God is our Heavenly Father, yes, but He has not had sexual relations with any woman in order to be so; God is our Heavenly Father, yes, but He has never changed your diapers, or burped you, or put you to bed in a crib; God is our Heavenly Father, yes, but He has never showed you how to ride a bike, or how to use the lawnmower, or how to do arithmetic. Clearly, God is our Heavenly Father in a manner very different from that of our earthly fathers. It's important, then, not to draw too close a parallel between our earthly fathers and our heavenly Father. Remember: Some have had very awful, cruel, brutal fathers and to them any parallel between their earthly fathers and God are destructive rather than helpful, demonstrating why we ought to be very careful about what parallels we might draw between our heavenly and earthly father.

The way you describe God, is closer to the way a Muslim describes Allah, than the relational God in the bible.

Well, you're entitled to your opinion. So far, though, you haven't actually shown this to be the case. Really, all that you're doing here is stating your psychological reaction to my remarks, not the actual fact of the matter.

You are though. The God in the bible related to people you are talking about someone unrelatable.
Almost exactly the way a Muslim talks about Allah.

No. This is your opinion concerning what I've written, but not the actual reality of what I've written. Ironically, it is in view of deeper communion with God that I am talking with you about gaming. Video gaming often becomes a distraction from enjoying God, from communing intimately with Him, diluting one's fellowship with, and direct, personal experience of Him. I've written extensively on the nature of that experience in this Discipleship subforum. Feel free to check out my threads.

Sometimes, though, the problem is that a person wants an experience with a God that doesn't exist. They have their own personal idea of who God is; and when they go searching for this God-in-their-own-image, they can't find Him. Eventually, the search is given up and other things crowd in to fill the God-shaped gap that remains. But these things will never properly occupy the place God intends only He should - and can - fill. Anyway, God does want fellowship with us; deep, fulfilling, joyful communion with us. But there are a whole host of things that will interpose themselves between us and God, stifling and diluting the delight we take in walking with Him, things like hobbies, careers, sports, money - and video gaming.

You can't love a person you can't relate with, I mean being able to relate to someone is how you love them in the first place.

Yes we don't understand everything about Him, but, much through the bible God expresses relatable emotions, relatable actions.

Yup. And I've never suggested otherwise. My aim in writing in this thread was to warn that video gaming can be very distracting spiritually - especially because it appeals so strongly to the physical side of who we are, stimulating strongly our sight, hearing, and base emotions relating to task-reward psychology, fear, excitement, exploration and so on. Video games, like drugs and alcohol, are intrinsically addictive, purposefully designed to provoke more and more game play. So, beware. Keep game play under control. Don't let it distract from, or exceed, your investment in your relationship with God. This is the basic message I'm giving in this thread.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Jamdoc

Watching and Praying Always
Oct 22, 2019
7,370
2,301
43
Helena
✟203,883.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
The phrase "angel of the Lord" I use generically to refer to the pre-incarnate Christ.



Jacob was "left alone," his group having moved across the "ford of Jabbok" with all their goods. He did not wrestle with a man in the midst of his caravan. And why wrestle for the entire night? Even for a short time, wrestling is exhausting. The reason is clear when Jacob, who seemed to have a sense of the divine character of his opponent, seeks a blessing from him ("I will not let you go unless you bless me" - Genesis 32:26), a promise from God that he would be all right in his meeting with his brother Esau. Jacob was scared and desperate ("Please deliver me from the hand of my brother, from the hand of Esau, for I fear him, that he may come and attack me" - Genesis 32:11) and willing to strive for hours with God to get this promise, if he could. I don't, then, see at all that what happened in this account was mere sport.



I've never said that "all games are evil."



I've not said that it was.



Nowhere does the account indicate they wrestled for sport. Instead, Jacob was afraid for his life and for the lives of those in his caravan and in this context he wrestled with the angel of the Lord and sought from him a blessing of protection from Esau.



Some animals also eat their young, or their own feces, and engage in pseudo-homosexual behaviour. Chimps have been known to attack, kill and eat neighboring groups of chimpanzees; sharks forcibly copulate; eagles steal fish from bears.



In the descriptions of heaven the Bible offers, such a thing is not even hinted at. The glory and power of God, His purity and light, are so awesome, so overwhelming, that He occupies fully the interest of all those in His heavenly home. No games needed. It's hard to imagine, eh? That God could be so amazing, so incredible, that we want nothing more than to be in His presence and to glorify Him. Sadly, God has been so diminished in the minds of His children that they can't imagine that He alone could possibly be fully satisfying.



The things we tell ourselves in order to continue to do what we want to do...



That depends upon the sort of singing you're talking about. Some singing is utterly morally vile; some is totally blasphemous; some is idiotic. I don't think God takes pleasure in singing of this sort, do you?



We are made in God's image so that we might interact with Him and in a limited measure understand Him. But it is clear that, when God is framed in human terms in the Bible, there is anthropomorphization taking place. God is our Heavenly Father, yes, but He has not had sexual relations with any woman in order to be so; God is our Heavenly Father, yes, but He has never changed your diapers, or burped you, or put you to bed in a crib; God is our Heavenly Father, yes, but He has never showed you how to ride a bike, or how to use the lawnmower, or how to do arithmetic. Clearly, God is our Heavenly Father in a manner very different from that of our earthly fathers. It's important, then, not to draw too close a parallel between our earthly fathers and our heavenly Father. Remember: Some have had very awful, cruel, brutal fathers and to them any parallel between their earthly fathers and God are destructive rather than helpful, demonstrating why we ought to be very careful about what parallels we might draw between our heavenly and earthly father.



Well, you're entitled to your opinion. So far, though, you haven't actually shown this to be the case. Really, all that you're doing here is stating your psychological reaction to my remarks, not the actual fact of the matter.



No. This is your opinion concerning what I've written, but not the actual reality of what I've written. Ironically, it is in view of deeper communion with God that I am talking with you about gaming. Video gaming often becomes a distraction from enjoying God, from communing intimately with Him, diluting one's fellowship with, and direct, personal experience of Him. I've written extensively on the nature of that experience in this Discipleship subforum. Feel free to check out my threads.

Sometimes, though, the problem is that a person wants an experience with a God that doesn't exist. They have their own personal idea of who God is; and when they go searching for this God-in-their-own-image, they can't find Him. Eventually, the search is given up and other things crowd in to fill the God-shaped gap that remains. But these things will never properly occupy the place God intends only He should - and can - fill. Anyway, God does want fellowship with us; deep, fulfilling, joyful communion with us. But there are a whole host of things that will interpose themselves between us and God, stifling and diluting the delight we take in walking with Him, things like hobbies, careers, sports, money - and video gaming.



Yup. And I've never suggested otherwise. My aim in writing in this thread was to warn that video gaming can be very distracting spiritually - especially because it appeals so strongly to the physical side of who we are, stimulating strongly our sight, hearing, and base emotions relating to task-reward psychology, fear, excitement, exploration and so on. Video games, like drugs and alcohol, are intrinsically addictive, purposefully designed to provoke more and more game play. So, beware. Keep game play under control. Don't let it distract from, or exceed, your investment in your relationship with God. This is the basic message I'm giving in this thread.

Actually the less relatable you describe your god (and the more you describe your god to be more like your drug, your all controlling addiction), the less impressive he sounds, and the less capacity I have to love such a thing. A drug can consume all your thoughts and actions and brainwash you into feeling joy no matter your circumstances, and make you think about nothing more than the drug. Replace the word drug with God if you wish, but that is what you do when you use it in terms like that. I don't find drugs awesome.
and yes, I say thing, because you don't describe him as a person.
I don't love glory or power.
Only reason I can at all be Christian is the personhood of Jesus Christ, someone relatable.
I want to know Jesus as a person, and spend time with Him, and do activities with Him.
 
Upvote 0

aiki

Regular Member
Feb 16, 2007
10,874
4,348
Winnipeg
✟236,528.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Actually the less relatable you describe your god (and the more you describe your god to be more like your drug, your all controlling addiction), the less impressive he sounds, and the less capacity I have to love such a thing.

Not my God; the God revealed in the Bible. Your psychological reaction to what I've shared of him is irrelevant - except to you. I am not at all responsible for your reaction to the truth about God, just for sharing that truth accurately, which I have.

A drug can consume all your thoughts and actions and brainwash you into feeling joy no matter your circumstances, and make you think about nothing more than the drug.

So? I'm not talking about a drug. Dogs have noses; they have eyes and ears; they eat, sleep and poop just as humans do. So? A dog is no more a human than the drug you describe is the God I know and love.

Replace the word drug with God if you wish, but that is what you do when you use it in terms like that. I don't find drugs awesome.

*Sigh* Strawman.

I don't love glory or power.
Only reason I can at all be Christian is the personhood of Jesus Christ, someone relatable.
I want to know Jesus as a person, and spend time with Him, and do activities with Him.

Honestly, I don't think you know who Jesus is. Try reading Revelation 1:12-18. Might help clarify things for you a bit.
 
Upvote 0

Jamdoc

Watching and Praying Always
Oct 22, 2019
7,370
2,301
43
Helena
✟203,883.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
Not my God; the God revealed in the Bible. Your psychological reaction to what I've shared of him is irrelevant - except to you. I am not at all responsible for your reaction to the truth about God, just for sharing that truth accurately, which I have.

God in the bible is a person (well 3 persons) that are relatable, not just some powerful object that you stare at blissfully and fall down on your face and worship. That description sounds more like drugs or idols than a living personal God you're in relationship with. You say fellowship but then don't ever talk about DOING anything with God. Just apparently staring at him in awe.
That's an object not a person. A person it's a back and forth, give and take exchange, it's interaction, it's relationship. Yeah, in first seeing Him you're going to be stunned and on your face, but what has the bible always shown in response to those encounters.. Jesus telling them not to fear and then interacting with them.

Daniel 8
17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.
18 Now as he was speaking with me, I was in a deep sleep on my face toward the ground: but he touched me, and set me upright.

Revelation 1
17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

Ezekiel 1 and 2
28 As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the Lord. And when I saw it, I fell upon my face, and I heard a voice of one that spake.

1 And he said unto me, Son of man, stand upon thy feet, and I will speak unto thee.
2 And the spirit entered into me when he spake unto me, and set me upon my feet, that I heard him that spake unto me.

Point is, while yes, the initial reaction is going to be of stunned awe... that's not going to persist forever. Why? Because Jesus doesn't want that. He stands people up and puts them to work, converses with them, interacts with them. RELATES to them. A person. Not an object you just stare at slack jawed with your face on the floor.

So? I'm not talking about a drug. Dogs have noses; they have eyes and ears; they eat, sleep and poop just as humans do. So? A dog is no more a human than the drug you describe is the God I know and love.

When you're treating God as just an unrelatable transcendent THING that you just stare at in awe for all eternity, it is very comparable to a drug.

Honestly, I don't think you know who Jesus is. Try reading Revelation 1:12-18. Might help clarify things for you a bit.

Oh I've read it plenty of times, Revelation is my favorite book in the bible, so please don't be patronizing with language like "try reading" like I've never done it before.

The difference is, you never get past the "fall on your face" stunned/awe response.
I do
I get to the part where Jesus touches them, stands them up, and starts talking to them person to person.

because I focus on Jesus as a person, someone who I have relationship with, that I talk to, that talks to me, that I will do things for, and also WITH.
You're so focused on the falling dead on your face part that you never move on to this being a person you do things in fellowship with.

and if eating, drinking, singing and dancing are part of those things, I see no reason why sports or games won't also be.
all those things can be done to the glory of God.

in fact the first purpose of mankind, in the garden, was not just falling on their face and staring at their maker, it was to have dominion on the earth and take care of the creation.

Obedience to a purpose in itself, is worship.

So, if God has you taking care of animals, or tending fields, or building houses.. doing it FOR Him is worship.

Not just slack jawed staring in adoration.
 
Upvote 0

aiki

Regular Member
Feb 16, 2007
10,874
4,348
Winnipeg
✟236,528.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
God in the bible is a person (well 3 persons) that are relatable, not just some powerful object that you stare at blissfully and fall down on your face and worship. That description sounds more like drugs or idols than a living personal God you're in relationship with. You say fellowship but then don't ever talk about DOING anything with God. Just apparently staring at him in awe.
That's an object not a person. A person it's a back and forth, give and take exchange, it's interaction, it's relationship. Yeah, in first seeing Him you're going to be stunned and on your face, but what has the bible always shown in response to those encounters.. Jesus telling them not to fear and then interacting with them.

So. Much. Strawman.

Point is, while yes, the initial reaction is going to be of stunned awe... that's not going to persist forever. Why? Because Jesus doesn't want that. He stands people up and puts them to work, converses with them, interacts with them. RELATES to them. A person. Not an object you just stare at slack jawed with your face on the floor.

And MORE Strawman.

When you're treating God as just an unrelatable transcendent THING that you just stare at in awe for all eternity, it is very comparable to a drug.

Uh huh.

The difference is, you never get past the "fall on your face" stunned/awe response.
I do

Uh huh.

because I focus on Jesus as a person, someone who I have relationship with, that I talk to, that talks to me, that I will do things for, and also WITH.
You're so focused on the falling dead on your face part that you never move on to this being a person you do things in fellowship with.

Not really. But I understand it helps your argument to Strawman what I've been saying.

Anywhoo...you just keep on keeping on. God'll get you where you need to go.
 
Upvote 0

Jamdoc

Watching and Praying Always
Oct 22, 2019
7,370
2,301
43
Helena
✟203,883.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
So. Much. Strawman.



And MORE Strawman.



Uh huh.



Uh huh.



Not really. But I understand it helps your argument to Strawman what I've been saying.

Anywhoo...you just keep on keeping on. God'll get you where you need to go.

It isn't a strawman, it's the takeaway from how you explain your understanding of God. It's always just staring at Him is so all consuming that you can't do anything else.
You think awesome
I think "sounds like drugs"
 
Upvote 0

aiki

Regular Member
Feb 16, 2007
10,874
4,348
Winnipeg
✟236,528.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
It isn't a strawman, it's the takeaway from how you explain your understanding of God. It's always just staring at Him is so all consuming that you can't do anything else.
You think awesome
I think "sounds like drugs"

Aaand more Strawman.

Look, you wanna keep doing what you're doing. Okay. Knock yourself out. It's not my responsibility to change your thinking.

You keep gaming and I'll keep staring mindlessly at my "drug."

See you in eternity!
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Jamdoc

Watching and Praying Always
Oct 22, 2019
7,370
2,301
43
Helena
✟203,883.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
Aaand more Strawman.

Look, you wanna keep doing what you're doing. Okay. Knock yourself out. It's not my responsibility to change your thinking.

You keep gaming and I'll keep staring mindlessly at my "drug."

See you in eternity!

How is it a strawman?
You were describing that it'd be forever of not being able to do anything else?

Even though Isaiah 65 describes building houses and planting crops, without a curse.

17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.
20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.
21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.
22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
23 They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the Lord, and their offspring with them.

These are normal life things, sounds like eternity contains normal life things, but without a curse, and with God being the proper center of everyone's lives.
It also sounds like God is an active participant in the rejoicing
IE Fellowship WITH Jesus, doing things WITH Jesus.
Even normal, everyday things like building houses and planting crops.
and.. the rejoicing is also in the things that God creates in verse 18.
so, that right there... it's not so all consuming to be around God just by itself but God intends for us to live lives as well, do other things, and, even rejoice in things that God creates, not just in Him alone.
This is not a problem in eternity because we'll always be thankful to Him FOR those things that He creates, unlike now where we very often don't thank Him for what He has given us, and often enjoy things for our own sake rather than properly for His sake.

Meanwhile this is what you said:
In the descriptions of heaven the Bible offers, such a thing is not even hinted at. The glory and power of God, His purity and light, are so awesome, so overwhelming, that He occupies fully the interest of all those in His heavenly home. No games needed. It's hard to imagine, eh? That God could be so amazing, so incredible, that we want nothing more than to be in His presence and to glorify Him. Sadly, God has been so diminished in the minds of His children that they can't imagine that He alone could possibly be fully satisfying.

Doesn't sound like doing anything but staring.
 
Upvote 0

aiki

Regular Member
Feb 16, 2007
10,874
4,348
Winnipeg
✟236,528.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
How is it a strawman?
You were describing that it'd be forever of not being able to do anything else?

No, this is your spin, an unjustified extrapolation on what I wrote. Nowhere did I write what you say I did in the quotation above. As such, your comment above describes a Strawman version of my comments, a weak, cartoonish rendering of my perspective, that you can easily knock down. I am not obliged in any way, however, to argue for your Strawman version of my words

I wrote:

"In the descriptions of heaven the Bible offers, such a thing is not even hinted at. The glory and power of God, His purity and light, are so awesome, so overwhelming, that He occupies fully the interest of all those in His heavenly home. No games needed. It's hard to imagine, eh? That God could be so amazing, so incredible, that we want nothing more than to be in His presence and to glorify Him. Sadly, God has been so diminished in the minds of His children that they can't imagine that He alone could possibly be fully satisfying."


You replied:

"Doesn't sound like doing anything but staring."

So, where do I mention staring? Nowhere. Where do I indicate we will all do nothing in heaven but stare at God? Nowhere. You have made repeated assumptions about my meaning and, without asking for clarification, simply begin to argue against your assumptions about my meaning, carrying on with me as though I am obliged to defend these assumptions. But I'm not at all obliged to defend your assumptions. They're your assumptions, not my actual words or thoughts. Do you see, then, why I keep calling "Strawman" in response to your remarks? I hope so.
 
Upvote 0

Jamdoc

Watching and Praying Always
Oct 22, 2019
7,370
2,301
43
Helena
✟203,883.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
No, this is your spin, an unjustified extrapolation on what I wrote. Nowhere did I write what you say I did in the quotation above. As such, your comment above describes a Strawman version of my comments, a weak, cartoonish rendering of my perspective, that you can easily knock down. I am not obliged in any way, however, to argue for your Strawman version of my words

I wrote:

"In the descriptions of heaven the Bible offers, such a thing is not even hinted at. The glory and power of God, His purity and light, are so awesome, so overwhelming, that He occupies fully the interest of all those in His heavenly home. No games needed. It's hard to imagine, eh? That God could be so amazing, so incredible, that we want nothing more than to be in His presence and to glorify Him. Sadly, God has been so diminished in the minds of His children that they can't imagine that He alone could possibly be fully satisfying."


You replied:

"Doesn't sound like doing anything but staring."

So, where do I mention staring? Nowhere. Where do I indicate we will all do nothing in heaven but stare at God? Nowhere. You have made repeated assumptions about my meaning and, without asking for clarification, simply begin to argue against your assumptions about my meaning, carrying on with me as though I am obliged to defend these assumptions. But I'm not at all obliged to defend your assumptions. They're your assumptions, not my actual words or thoughts. Do you see, then, why I keep calling "Strawman" in response to your remarks? I hope so.

Because to get us to really do anything we have to have an unfulfilled need. IE an unfulfilled need for shelter, so we build a house.

If you are fully satisfied, that means all needs are met, so you don't do anything.

not to mention language like "that we want nothing more than to be in His presence" that's very passive rather than active.
 
Upvote 0