Galatians 3:19

[Marco70]

So why do people tell you, your judgement will be based on obeying the TC(the letter that kills according to scripture) Don't they know:
The measure they use to judge others will be used to judge you Matt7:2
Assuredly they do. So why are they happy to commit spiritual suicide?

There must be something that matters more to them than the judgement to come, obviously. So why oh why do they do it?

Well why did the Pharisees of Jesus day do it?

They loved the praise of men more than the praise of God scripture tells us.

If you preach, you must obey the TC, you are inferring you yourself fully obey that law. And you are in effect telling people, they need to be where you are at.

 

[The7thColporteur]

... It's interesting those who preach (harp on) against adultery are usually the guilty. ...

You have seen how many times that God, through the Holy Prophets, Apostles speak about adultery right? What would your argument say about God then? Sounds an awful like what satan attempts to pin upon Him.

Jesus:

Matthew 5:27 KJB - Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

Matthew 5:28 KJB - But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Matthew 5:32 KJB - But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

Matthew 19:9 KJB - And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

Matthew 19:18 KJB - He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

Mark 10:11 KJB - And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.

Mark 10:12 KJB - And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.

Mark 10:19 KJB - Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.

Luke 16:18 KJB - Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.

Luke 18:20 KJB - Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.​

Paul:

1 Corinthians 6:9 KJB - Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

Hebrews 13:4 KJB - Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.​

James:

James 4:4 KJB - Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.​

See Moses, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Malachi, etc.

Also, pointing to bad apples that separate themselves from the good tree, has nothing to say about the good apples, nor of the good tree.

A person who attempts to justify their sins, by the sins of others, will not stand against the judgment of God. Will a person say to God, "I committed adultery, murder, theft, etc, but so did all of these ..."; for God's just justice will punish them all according to their deeds. Likewise, will a person say to God, "I committted adultery, murder theft, etc only the one time!, and look at all the persons I did not commit adultery with, or murder, or steal from ..."; for God just justice will punish for the single sin.

A person who is merely associated with a church, and in name only, has no more safety from the judgment of God than the non-professing sinner, and moreso, the false professing is in more danger, since they deceive themselves.

The attempt to change the focus of the OP, is also not an argument in favour of the position to transgress the 4th Commandment.

Beware your argument, lest it be taken that you accuse God.

 

[The7thColporteur]

Yeah it's no fun being branded as a trouble maker and effectively being disfellowshipped.

There are grounds in scripture [KJB] for disfellowshipping. If your case met those criteria, then it was beneficial to the members, and to you, for instance:

1 Corinthians 5:5 KJB - To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

1 Corinthians 5:13 KJB - But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.​

However, there is, by the grace of God, a way back. Through repentance.

 

[listed]

So why do people tell you, your judgement will be based on obeying the TC(the letter that kills according to scripture) Don't they know:
The measure they use to judge others will be used to judge you Matt7:2
Assuredly they do. So why are they happy to commit spiritual suicide?

There must be something that matters more to them than the judgement to come, obviously. So why oh why do they do it?

Well why did the Pharisees of Jesus day do it?

They loved the praise of men more than the praise of God scripture tells us.

If you preach, you must obey the TC, you are inferring you yourself fully obey that law. And you are in effect telling people, they need to be where you are at.

It also says a person doesn't need Jesus to get into heaven. I was just post posted a person only needs to obey the ten commandments to enter heaven with their often out of context Revelation 14:12. Also included was the famous Matthew 19. Nothing about Jesus, just the law.

 

[listed]

You have seen how many times that God, through the Holy Prophets, Apostles speak about adultery right? What would your argument say about God then? Sounds an awful like what satan attempts to pin upon Him.

Jesus:

Matthew 5:27 KJB - Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

Matthew 5:28 KJB - But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Matthew 5:32 KJB - But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

Matthew 19:9 KJB - And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

Matthew 19:18 KJB - He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
​

I've no idea why you harp on adultery.​

Paul:

1 Corinthians 6:9 KJB - Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,​

Who are the unrighteous? Is this true:

But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Hebrews 13:4 KJB - Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.

James:

James 4:4 KJB - Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.​

See Moses, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Malachi, etc.

Also, pointing to bad apples that separate themselves from the good tree, has nothing to say about the good apples, nor of the good tree.

So why do you need to condemn me so badly? Do you really think you can separate me from grace and my free gift by requiring me to work for my salvation?

A person who attempts to justify their sins, by the sins of others, will not stand against the judgment of God. Will a person say to God, "I committed adultery, murder, theft, etc, but so did all of these ..."; for God's just justice will punish them all according to their deeds. Likewise, will a person say to God, "I committted adultery, murder theft, etc only the one time!, and look at all the persons I did not commit adultery with, or murder, or steal from ..."; for God just justice will punish for the single sin.

Name any specific sin I do or endorse.

A person who is merely associated with a church, and in name only, has no more safety from the judgment of God than the non-professing sinner, and moreso, the false professing is in more danger, since they deceive themselves.

Do I need to change my faith indicator to Christian? Maybe you think Non-Denominational means I attend religious activity. I think of that as saying no allegiance to a religious organization. So I will change it just for you to Christian. Then some wise cracker will say I belong to the Church of Christ or Christian Scientist.

The attempt to change the focus of the OP, is also not an argument in favour of the position to transgress the 4th Commandment.

Attempt to change the OP? I understand this to be a debate section opposed to a section of some one promoting their church doctrine as truth, really evangelizing on a public forum.

 

[listed]

There are grounds in scripture [KJB] for disfellowshipping. If your case met those criteria, then it was beneficial to the members, and to you, for instance:

1 Corinthians 5:5 KJB - To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

1 Corinthians 5:13 KJB - But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.​

However, there is, by the grace of God, a way back. Through repentance.

You seem to respond as though English is a second language.

 

[Ron Gurley]

Gal 3:17

What I am saying is this: the (Mosaic) Law, which came four hundred and thirty years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise.
Gal 3:18

Why the Law then? It was added because of transgressions, having been ordained through angels by the agency of a mediator, until the seed would come to whom the promise had been made.

 

[Ron Gurley]

s 2:12
For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law;

Romans 3:20
because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.


for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

 

[Marco70]

It also says a person doesn't need Jesus to get into heaven. I was just post posted a person only needs to obey the ten commandments to enter heaven with their often out of context Revelation 14:12. Also included was the famous Matthew 19. Nothing about Jesus, just the law.

Yep, the more in earnest you are about the law, the less you rely on Jesus.
What did Jesus say to the Pharisees?

Woe to you Pharisees, because you give God a tenth of your mint, rue and all other kinds of garden herbs, but you neglect justice and the love of God.
Luke11:42

Its all about being good enough according to the law for many(despite their protestations to the contrary) And the more you rely on the law, the more you must neglect the great, love, mercy and compassion of God. You don't need it or want it, it's all about you attaining to a certain standard to be righteous before God.
Pity they don't know the required standard is 100% perfect obedience of the law

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Yep, the more in earnest you are about the law, the less you rely on Jesus.
What did Jesus say to the Pharisees?

Woe to you Pharisees, because you give God a tenth of your mint, rue and all other kinds of garden herbs, but you neglect justice and the love of God.
Luke11:42

Its all about being good enough according to the law for many(despite their protestations to the contrary) And the more you rely on the law, the more you must neglect the great, love, mercy and compassion of God. You don't need it or want it, it's all about you attaining to a certain standard to be righteous before God.
Pity they don't know the required standard is 100% perfect obedience of the law

You and listed may not have the faith and Grace to be obedient to His Commandments AND love Jesus as Lord and Saviour, brother and friend, but don't you dare false witness against myself or any one else on these boards that just because you disagree with some of their doctrines that you have the right to question their fidelity to Christ! Shame on you!

 

[Marco70]

You and listed may not have the faith and Grace to be obedient to His Commandments AND love Jesus as Lord and Saviour, brother and friend, but don't you dare false witness against myself or any one else on these boards that just because you disagree with some of their doctrines that you have the right to question their fidelity to Christ! Shame on you!

I'm afraid it is true, the more you rely on the law the less you rely on Jesus, the more you neglect the love of God.
Concerning obedience to commandments. In my experience over four decades, and on this website(I am not including you) the people who most earnestly stress ''law'' are the people who seem able to most casually break the moral law of God and appear to have no qualms in doing so

 

[The7thColporteur]

...Concerning obedience to commandments. ...

Romans 1:18 KJB - For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Psalms 119:142 KJB - Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.

Psalms 119:151 KJB - Thou art near, O LORD; and all thy commandments are truth.​

 

[Marco70]

Its strange, but those who quote much of the letter itself, appear unable to understand the message contained in it.
For sin shall no longer be your master, for you are not under law but under grace Rom 6:14
If only many people understood the truth contained in that verse.

Or this one:
Do we then nullify the law by this faith(a righteousness of faith in Christ not observing the law) not at all! rather we uphold the law Rom3:31

If people understood and followed the truth, then, those who most earnestly stress you must obey the law, wouldn't themselves so casually break the law

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

You and listed may not have the faith and Grace to be obedient to His Commandments AND love Jesus as Lord and Saviour, brother and friend, but don't you dare false witness against myself or any one else on these boards that just because you disagree with some of their doctrines that you have the right to question their fidelity to Christ! Shame on you!

(apparently) Their shame and disobedience is piling higher deeper daily.

(it seems to me) They cannot be silenced nor shunned nor corrected nor helped so far.

The best we may accomplish, Yahweh Willing (He may not),
is
"Father forgive them, for they know nothing true"

 

[Marco70]

Obedience comes from faith(rom1:5), not striving to obey the law

The law is not based on faith Gal3:12

 

[Marco70]

Would those who stress law like to explain the following? If they have read the greek it shouldn't be a problem:

For when we were in the realm of the flesh,a]'>[a] the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death Rom 7:5 NIV

But sin, taking occasion by the commandment(one of the TC), wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. Rom 7:7

For sin, taking occasion by the commandment(one of the TC), deceived me, and by it slew me verse11

Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment(one of the TC) might become exceeding sinful. verse13

 

[Marco70]

The shame and disobedience, should belong to those who claim to obey what the bible terms: The letter that kills

 

[The7thColporteur]

The shame and disobedience, should belong to those who ...

Exodus 32:25 KJB - And when Moses saw that the people were naked; (for Aaron had made them naked unto their shame among their enemies

Nahum 3:5 KJB - Behold, I am against thee, saith the LORD of hosts; and I will discover thy skirts upon thy face, and I will shew the nations thy nakedness, and the kingdoms thy shame.

Jeremiah 3:25 KJB - We lie down in our shame, and our confusion covereth us: for we have sinned against the LORD our God, we and our fathers, from our youth even unto this day, and have not obeyed the voice of the LORD our God.

Isaiah 47:3 KJB - Thy nakedness shall be uncovered, yea, thy shame shall be seen: I will take vengeance, and I will not meet thee as a man.

Habakkuk 2:10 KJB - Thou hast consulted shame to thy house by cutting off many people, and hast sinned against thy soul.

1 Corinthians 15:34 KJB - Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

Ephesians 5:12 KJB - For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.

Philippians 3:19 KJB - Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)

Hebrews 12:2 KJB - Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Jude 1:13 KJB - Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

Psalms 109:29 KJB - Let mine adversaries be clothed with shame, and let them cover themselves with their own confusion, as with a mantle.


...


Psalms 119:31 KJB - I have stuck unto thy testimonies: O LORD, put me not to shame.

Psalms 119:80 KJB - Let my heart be sound in thy statutes; that I be not ashamed.

Psalms 119:6 KJB -Then shall I not be ashamed, when I have respect unto all thy commandments.

 

[Marco70]

In my view, those who solely quote the letter itself, do so, for they cannot understand, or therefore explain the message contained in the letter.
They coiuld always prove me wrong, and explain, in their own words, the verses quoted from rom ch7

 

[Marco70]

Better put this up again, in its entirety

The shame and disobedience, should belong to those who claim to obey what the bible terms: The letter that kills