Gal 4 condemns all Pagan days Rom 14 defends all Bible holy days

[BobRyan]

here is a thread where we find "inconvenient" Bible details about God not trying to downgrade/downsize/diminish His own Ten Commandments.

 

[BobRyan]

I agree. You believe you need to keep the 7th day Sabbath. I keep every day alike - all for Jesus. You keep one, I keep 7.

A misquote.

Romans 14 says in regard to the Lev 23 annual holy days "one man observes one day above another while another observes them all".

By contrast in Gal 4 Paul condemns the observance of even one pagan holy day.

pagan? Don't be so lazy. What verse(s)?

There's an entire thread with that answer in it.

This one.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Until you read Gal 4:7, 9-11 regarding worship of false gods which are by nature "no gods at all" -- and the fact that the Galatians were in fact former pagans turned Christian.

ROFL Those were not pagan days, but observing the days the Judaizers were telling them they must keep under the law.

What does Galatians 4:7 about being sons of God mean to you? Are those "sons" pagan, or Christian John 8:34-36, Romans 8:14.

 

[BobRyan]

The church of the Galatians is a gentile church. Obviously.
The gentiles were formerly pagans... obviously


7 Therefore you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ. 8 But then, indeed, when you did not know God, you served those which by nature are not gods.

-- Pagans did not know God.. Matthew 17 says Moses and Elijah did know God

(Pagans in Galatia who worshiped false god before becoming Christian)

9 But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage? 10 You observe days and months and seasons and years. 11 I am afraid for you, lest I have labored for you in vain.

--- returning "again" to pagan practices they had been practicing.

ROFL Those were not pagan days, .

wild speculation alone does not suffice to undo the Bible details from "page 1" of this thread that come from Gal 4. Details matter.

 

[1stcenturylady]

The church of the Galatians is a gentile church. Obviously.
The gentiles were formerly pagans... obviously


7 Therefore you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ. 8 But then, indeed, when you did not know God, you served those which by nature are not gods.

-- Pagans did not know God.. Matthew 17 says Moses and Elijah did know God

(Pagans in Galatia who worshiped false god before becoming Christian)

9 But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage? 10 You observe days and months and seasons and years. 11 I am afraid for you, lest I have labored for you in vain.

--- returning "again" to pagan practices they had been practicing.



wild speculation alone does not suffice to undo the Bible details from "page 1" of this thread that come from Gal 4. Details matter.

I'm sure you are going to keep telling yourself that.

If you ever actually want to know and adjust your thinking to the context, read chapter 2. Do you honestly believe pagans want the Galatians to go back under the law? THE LAW!!! It is the law that has days, etc.

 

[Dkh587]

The church of the Galatians is a gentile church. Obviously.
The gentiles were formerly pagans... obviously


7 Therefore you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ. 8 But then, indeed, when you did not know God, you served those which by nature are not gods.

-- Pagans did not know God.. Matthew 17 says Moses and Elijah did know God

(Pagans in Galatia who worshiped false god before becoming Christian)

9 But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage? 10 You observe days and months and seasons and years. 11 I am afraid for you, lest I have labored for you in vain.

--- returning "again" to pagan practices they had been practicing.



wild speculation alone does not suffice to undo the Bible details from "page 1" of this thread that come from Gal 4. Details matter.

Stop dispensing your pearls and shake the dust off your feet - she is showing that she is unlearned and not interested in learning the truth.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Stop dispensing your pearls and shake the dust off your feet - she is showing that she is unlearned and not interested in learning the truth.

CONTEXT! CONTEXT! CONTEXT!

Paul is not contrasting paganism and the law; but rather the Old Testament law vs. the New Testament Spirit. 4:21 "Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law?" So you see it wasn't paganism they wanted to go back to, but were believing the Judaizers bullying that they go under the OT law. It was those days and months and seasons and years under the law, not pagan days.

Don't you know that those who wanted to go back under the law, had fallen from grace? Galatians 5:4

Galatians 3:2
This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Galatians 3:3
Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?

Galatians 3:5
Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?—

Galatians 3:14
that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Galatians 4:6
And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, “Abba, Father!”

Galatians 4:29
But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now.

Galatians 5:5
For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

Galatians 5:16
I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

Galatians 5:17
For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.

Galatians 5:18
But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

 

[BobRyan]

The church of the Galatians is a gentile church. Obviously.
The gentiles were formerly pagans... obviously


7 Therefore you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ. 8 But then, indeed, when you did not know God, you served those which by nature are not gods.

-- Pagans did not know God.. Matthew 17 says Moses and Elijah did know God

(Pagans in Galatia who worshiped false god before becoming Christian)

9 But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage? 10 You observe days and months and seasons and years. 11 I am afraid for you, lest I have labored for you in vain.

--- returning "again" to pagan practices they had been practicing.

ROFL Those were not pagan days, .

wild speculation alone does not suffice to undo the Bible details from "page 1" of this thread that come from Gal 4. Details matter.

I'm sure you are going to keep telling yourself that.

If you ever actually want to know and adjust your thinking to the context

So far you have ignored every detail in Galatians 4 that has been quoted for you. Were we simply "not supposed to notice?"

your solution of holding the details at a distance is not the grand solution you have apparently supposed it to be. Try something else.

 

[1stcenturylady]

The church of the Galatians is a gentile church. Obviously.
The gentiles were formerly pagans... obviously


7 Therefore you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ. 8 But then, indeed, when you did not know God, you served those which by nature are not gods.

-- Pagans did not know God.. Matthew 17 says Moses and Elijah did know God

(Pagans in Galatia who worshiped false god before becoming Christian)

9 But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage? 10 You observe days and months and seasons and years. 11 I am afraid for you, lest I have labored for you in vain.

--- returning "again" to pagan practices they had been practicing.



wild speculation alone does not suffice to undo the Bible details from "page 1" of this thread that come from Gal 4. Details matter.



So far you have ignored every detail in Galatians 4 that has been quoted for you. Were we simply "not supposed to notice?"

your solution of holding the details at a distance is not the grand solution you have apparently supposed it to be. Try something else.

The point Paul is making is that they were returning to days under the LAW that were reminiscent of pagan days. But it was the days under the law that were presently in question. Those are the CONTEXT! You take one verse and are blind to the context of the whole book, even that same chapter!

I think because you have placed yourself under the law, that you can't see anything wrong with it, so you think it must be pagan days.

 

[BobRyan]

The church of the Galatians is a gentile church. Obviously.
The gentiles were formerly pagans... obviously


7 Therefore you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ. 8 But then, indeed, when you did not know God, you served those which by nature are not gods.

-- Pagans did not know God.. Matthew 17 says Moses and Elijah did know God

(Pagans in Galatia who worshiped false god before becoming Christian)

9 But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage? 10 You observe days and months and seasons and years. 11 I am afraid for you, lest I have labored for you in vain.

--- returning "again" to pagan practices they had been practicing.

ROFL Those were not pagan days, .

wild speculation alone does not suffice to undo the Bible details from "page 1" of this thread that come from Gal 4. Details matter.

I'm sure you are going to keep telling yourself that.

If you ever actually want to know and adjust your thinking to the context

So far you have ignored every detail in Galatians 4 that has been quoted for you. Were we simply "not supposed to notice?"

your solution of holding the details at a distance is not the grand solution you have apparently supposed it to be. Try something else.

You can bring a mule to water...

Dkh587 said: ↑
Stop dispensing your pearls and shake the dust off your feet - she is showing that she is unlearned and not interested in learning the truth.

Interesting.

Why keep ignoring every detail in the text of Gal 4 that is pointed out to you 1CL?

 

[1stcenturylady]

The church of the Galatians is a gentile church. Obviously.
The gentiles were formerly pagans... obviously


7 Therefore you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ. 8 But then, indeed, when you did not know God, you served those which by nature are not gods.

-- Pagans did not know God.. Matthew 17 says Moses and Elijah did know God

(Pagans in Galatia who worshiped false god before becoming Christian)

9 But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage? 10 You observe days and months and seasons and years. 11 I am afraid for you, lest I have labored for you in vain.

--- returning "again" to pagan practices they had been practicing.



wild speculation alone does not suffice to undo the Bible details from "page 1" of this thread that come from Gal 4. Details matter.



So far you have ignored every detail in Galatians 4 that has been quoted for you. Were we simply "not supposed to notice?"

your solution of holding the details at a distance is not the grand solution you have apparently supposed it to be. Try something else.





Interesting.

Why keep ignoring every detail in the text of Gal 4 that is pointed out to you 1CL?

I pointed out to you the context of Galatians 4, and you still are cutting and pasting the same error.

Galatians 4:21 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law?

Are you blind? What do you see they had a desire to be under? I'm giving you a big hint. Do you still think it is paganism they desired to be under???

 

[bbbbbbb]

I pointed out to you the context of Galatians 4, and you still are cutting and pasting the same error.

Galatians 4:21 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law?

Are you blind? What do you see they had a desire to be under? I'm giving you a big hint. Do you still think it is paganism they desired to be under???

Hmmm, Let's think about it. What did pagans actually do? Were they highly moralistic and legalistic in their lives? If we think that, we need to visit countries like India where there are plenty of pagans to observe.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Hmmm, Let's think about it. What did pagans actually do? Were they highly moralistic and legalistic in their lives? If we think that, we need to visit countries like India where there are plenty of pagans to observe.

What does this have to do with the law?

 

[Timothy416]

CONTEXT! CONTEXT! CONTEXT!

Paul is not contrasting paganism and the law; but rather the Old Testament law vs. the New Testament Spirit. 4:21 "Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law?" So you see it wasn't paganism they wanted to go back to, but were believing the Judaizers bullying that they go under the OT law. It was those days and months and seasons and years under the law, not pagan days.

Don't you know that those who wanted to go back under the law, had fallen from grace? Galatians 5:4

Galatians 3:2
This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Galatians 3:3
Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?

Galatians 3:5
Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?—

Galatians 3:14
that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Galatians 4:6
And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, “Abba, Father!”

Galatians 4:29
But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now.

Galatians 5:5
For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

Galatians 5:16
I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

Galatians 5:17
For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.

Galatians 5:18
But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

Sanity is always appreciated when faced with strange/insane beliefs. Well done, and God bless

 

[1stcenturylady]

Sanity is always appreciated when faced with strange/insane beliefs. Well done, and God bless

Scripture always explains Scripture, if you know to read the context.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Hmmm, Let's think about it. What did pagans actually do? Were they highly moralistic and legalistic in their lives? If we think that, we need to visit countries like India where there are plenty of pagans to observe.

If, as Mr. Ryan asserts, the problem with the Galatians was that they were turning back to the moralistic and legalistic law of the pagans, rather that the Law of the Old Testament, he is greatly mistaken because heathens are just the opposite - immoral without law. His argument is false.

 

[Rubiks]

Paul in Galatians says those who sign the Mosaic covenant have cut themselves off of Christ. He compares keeping the law of Moses with being enslaved to idols. He even identifies Hagar, not Sarah with the covenant at Mount Sinai.

The radical stuff Paul said about the law in Galatians got him into a lot of trouble.

 

[1stcenturylady]

If, as Mr. Ryan asserts, the problem with the Galatians was that they were turning back to the moralistic and legalistic law of the pagans, rather that the Law of the Old Testament, he is greatly mistaken because heathens are just the opposite - immoral without law. His argument is false.

Paul's rebuke did not have anything to do with morality. Read what the Galatians were actually doing.

Galatians 4: how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage? 10 You observe days and months and seasons and years. 11 I am afraid for you, lest I have labored for you in vain.

Paul is talking about any outward observance of days as in paganism or the Mosaic LAW! Even circumcision is no longer outward, but of the heart. Everything we do now is of the heart through the Spirit. Jesus is the substance of our Sabbath, and Jesus is the substance of the feasts. Choose either the outward day of rest or the Giver of rest to our inner souls.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Paul's rebuke did not have anything to do with morality. Read what the Galatians were actually doing.

Galatians 4: how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage? 10 You observe days and months and seasons and years. 11 I am afraid for you, lest I have labored for you in vain.

Paul is talking about any outward observance of days as in paganism or the Mosaic LAW! Even circumcision is no longer outward, but of the heart. Everything we do now is of the heart through the Spirit. Jesus is the substance of our Sabbath, and Jesus is the substance of the feasts. Choose either the outward day of rest or the Giver of rest to our inner souls.

Exactly. How Mr. Ryan and the SDA manage to contort the clear teaching of Galatians into a defence of Law-keeping is a great mystery to me.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Exactly. How Mr. Ryan and the SDA manage to contort the clear teaching of Galatians into a defence of Law-keeping is a great mystery to me.

Actually, I can see how he is interpreting those days as being pagan. But even if he is right, the whole book has to do with ANY outward observance, whether pagan, or the Mosaic law which was to keep us under guard UNTIL Christ.