GAL 1:23 PROVES THERE ARE 3 PEOPLE AND 3 PROGRAMS !

[timothyu]

YOu are confusing salvation with teh Kingdom God has promised the Nation of Israel on this earth!

I don't believe so. Salvation is in part repenting of following the governance/will of man in trade for following the governance/kingdom of God. Kingdom is two things, a place and authourity.

 

[nolidad]

I don't believe so. Salvation is in part repenting of following the governance/will of man in trade for following the governance/kingdom of God. Kingdom is two things, a place and authourity.

and the gospel of teh kingdom was the good news to Israel that her king had come and by receiving Him- He would have established Gods long promised kingdom to Israel on earth!

 

[timothyu]

and the gospel of teh kingdom was the good news to Israel that her king had come and by receiving Him- He would have established Gods long promised kingdom to Israel on earth!

No he said the kingdom/authority of the Father had come and we had the choice to live under the governance of the Father instead of man. A time is still coming when the chaffe is separated from the grain. Jesus didn't bail on us.

 

[nolidad]

No he said the kingdom/authority of the Father had come and we had the choice to live under the governance of the Father instead of man. A time is still coming when the chaffe is separated from the grain. Jesus didn't bail on us.

Right! And the kingdom was a literal physical kingdom with Jesus as king! That is why the apostles asked this in Acts 1:

6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

And in modern language Jesus told them- they were not to know what that time was that only the Father has put in HIs own hands!

 

[PROPHECYKID]

Hi and how can a believing Jew that still is a Law keeper be saved today ?

What say you ??

dan p

I say Keeping the law of Moses that was ended at the cross has no effect. Everybody who is saved will all be saved by grace through faith. Keeping the Law simply cannot save because it was never intended to save. The issue comes in if one keeps the law with the intent that their works will save them.

 

[PROPHECYKID]

This would be incorrect! You need to read the rest of Galatians.

The law has never saved a soul! Faith is the only thing that makes one righteous before God!

The gospel is the same for salvation to Jew and Gentile! what is different is the presentation. Jews are free to keep the Mosaic Law (not for salvation or righteousness) while the gentiles are under no such burden. Paul said that often.

Yes the gospel of the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus initiated what we call the dispensation of grace or the dispensation of the church!

But there was no gospel of faith in the law of Moses that is a valid gospel.

I disagree. When God gave his laws, whether they were the 10 commandments or the laws that Moses wrote, if a stranger/gentile were to come into the camp of Israel, they were also subject to keep the laws too. In fact, the 4th commandment says that even the animals were to keep the sabbath and animals are a totally different species. There have been a lot of outsiders who came into Israel and abided by the law. Point being, whatever God wants his people to do, its for all his people. Paul was a Jew, but Paul knew that the law of Moses was ended at the cross. Paul knew there was no benefit in keeping it and possibly dangers. Paul however had to contend with pharisees and Jewish leaders who were still in Old Covenant mindset and for the sake of unity did not try to force people away from their current customs but taught about the reality of Jesus Christ's death on the cross and what it means for every single person. So God isn't operating by different sets of rules.

 

[PROPHECYKID]

It has always been by faith!

Galatians 3:6-7 King James Version (KJV)
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

The content of faith may have been different in different dispensations, but it has always been by faith!

Peter was a member of the Body of Christ so he trusted in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus for his sins.

Gal.

10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

the law was not given to save people as Paul clearly writes in Galatians.

17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Remember that teh OT saints did not have the indwelling Holy Spirit like the body of christ does.

So as Isaiah wrote, their righteousness was filthy rags.

And Paul sote that those in the flesh cannot please God. that is not a new thing with god- but an old thing!

I agree with you. It has always been by faith, always been through God's grace. But when Isaiah says all OUR righteousness you need to understand it meaning "our" and not "their". All of our righteousness is as filthy rags too because there is only one righteous and that is Jesus Christ.

 

[PROPHECYKID]

Peter was saved the same way all others in the church age are saved! By trusting in the death burial and resurrection of Jesus for His sin.

We are now considering a time when dispensations changed! From the dispensation of the law to the dispensation of the church or grace! Anyone who was considered righteous prior to Pentecost would have accepted Jesus as Messiah after Pentecost!

Is there a specific verse? NO but just knowing the nature of God and the fact he desires none to perish.

Once tghe church was born at Pentecost- the only means of salvation was trust in Christ atoning work. The Jews who were righteous and alive would receive this good news. Ephesians one God foreknew them.

Trusting in God's aroing work has always been the means of Salvation. That is what the faith is all about. Who's atoning work was represented when the sinner would bring the lamb to the priest, who would slit the throat, spill the blood of the animal and take it into the sanctuary? It was Jesus' atoning work. Who's ministry did the priest represent when he took the blood into the sanctuary? It was Jesus' ministry. The old testament contained the shadows but the New Testament has the reality. They both point to the same thing. The atoning sacrifice is what saves us all from the first man alive to the last.

 

[PROPHECYKID]

and the gospel of teh kingdom was the good news to Israel that her king had come and by receiving Him- He would have established Gods long promised kingdom to Israel on earth!

I have some issue with this. But let me ask this question. Is the promised kingdom just for the Jews who would be alive at the end of time or for the Jews throughout history?

 

[Danoh]

Right! And the kingdom was a literal physical kingdom with Jesus as king! That is why the apostles asked this in Acts 1:

6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

And in modern language Jesus told them- they were not to know what that time was that only the Father has put in HIs own hands!

A thought...

In Acts 3 it appears Peter is offering His soon return - after - His wrath, as both Acts 2 and 3 make obvious.

Meaning, it does not appear so much an offer of "repent, Israel, and He'll return to you with your Promised times of refreshing" rather "and He'll deliver you all through His wrath to come prior to His return to you with your Promised times of refreshing..."

Its Luke 1's and Luke 21's Promised Deliverance to Them, once more...

At the same time, both Acts 1 and Acts 3, appear to be in light of a gap of time of some sort within Israel's Prophetic Clock or Timeline, between Israel's National repentance and His return to them with their Promised times of refreshing.

A gap of time passages like Paul's, say, in Romans 9, appear to indicate He had planned on inserting our even now present Mystery age.

Fascinating - Mid-Acts, is what that is...

Romans 5:8

 

[nolidad]

A thought...

In Acts 3 it appears Peter is offering His soon return - after - His wrath, as both Acts 2 and 3 make obvious.

Meaning, it does not appear so much an offer of "repent, Israel, and He'll return to you with your Promised times of refreshing" rather "and He'll deliver you all through His wrath to come prior to His return to you with your Promised times of refreshing..."

Its Luke 1's and Luke 21's Promised Deliverance to Them, once more...

At the same time, both Acts 1 and Acts 3, appear to be in light of a gap of time of some sort within Israel's Prophetic Clock or Timeline, between Israel's National repentance and His return to them with their Promised times of refreshing.

A gap of time passages like Paul's, say, in Romans 9, appear to indicate He had planned on inserting our even now present Mystery age.

Fascinating - Mid-Acts, is what that is...

This is correct. The church was a mystery in the Old and revealed and empowered in the New! It is the ingathering of Gentiles God promised and revealed to Paul.

 

[nolidad]

I have some issue with this. But let me ask this question. Is the promised kingdom just for the Jews who would be alive at the end of time or for the Jews throughout history?

It is for all Saved Jews of the OT and the Jews who get saved during the tribulation time (the 70th week of Daniel). We call this the Millennial kingdom. It was the kingdom promised to Israel. the only new thing added about the kingdom in the new testament was its duration-1,000 years. Jews who get saved during the church age are part of the bride of Christ and they like we saved Gentiles who are in the body- have a different role and reward for that 1,000 years.

JOhn the Baptist preached the gospel of the Kingdom (repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand) and the disciples preached the gospel of the kingdom until Israel committed the unpardonable sin. Then the gospel of the kingdom was no longer preached (all time after Matthew 12).

The gospel of the kingdom in Matthew 24 is not the same. When one looks carefully, that gospel of the kingdom is preached as a witness against the nations not as a call to repent.

 

[nolidad]

I disagree. When God gave his laws, whether they were the 10 commandments or the laws that Moses wrote, if a stranger/gentile were to come into the camp of Israel, they were also subject to keep the laws too. In fact, the 4th commandment says that even the animals were to keep the sabbath and animals are a totally different species. There have been a lot of outsiders who came into Israel and abided by the law. Point being, whatever God wants his people to do, its for all his people. Paul was a Jew, but Paul knew that the law of Moses was ended at the cross. Paul knew there was no benefit in keeping it and possibly dangers. Paul however had to contend with pharisees and Jewish leaders who were still in Old Covenant mindset and for the sake of unity did not try to force people away from their current customs but taught about the reality of Jesus Christ's death on the cross and what it means for every single person. So God isn't operating by different sets of rules.

I agree. God has never operated by a different set of rules. Different object of expressing faith- yes. Different rules, no!

But remember all 613 commands of the Mosaic Law have been rendered null and void! I do not commit murder because the ten commandments say that shalt not murder, I do not murder because it is written in teh New Testament for the church age believer!

 

[nolidad]

Trusting in God's aroing work has always been the means of Salvation. That is what the faith is all about. Who's atoning work was represented when the sinner would bring the lamb to the priest, who would slit the throat, spill the blood of the animal and take it into the sanctuary? It was Jesus' atoning work. Who's ministry did the priest represent when he took the blood into the sanctuary? It was Jesus' ministry. The old testament contained the shadows but the New Testament has the reality. They both point to the same thing. The atoning sacrifice is what saves us all from the first man alive to the last.

I agree! But remember that the OT saints did not have knowledge of the shed blood of Jesus nor His ministry. They showed faith in God by sacrificing. But Jesus blood saves all from beginning to end. For He was the Lamb slain before the foundation of the World.

 

[nolidad]

I agree with you. It has always been by faith, always been through God's grace. But when Isaiah says all OUR righteousness you need to understand it meaning "our" and not "their". All of our righteousness is as filthy rags too because there is only one righteous and that is Jesus Christ.

Everyones righteousness is filthy rags before God. Jew and Gentile, believer and unbeliever. No one is righteous in Gods sight. And that no one in the flesh can please God as Paul said in Romans has been true since Adam!

 

[PROPHECYKID]

Everyones righteousness is filthy rags before God. Jew and Gentile, believer and unbeliever. No one is righteous in Gods sight. And that no one in the flesh can please God as Paul said in Romans has been true since Adam!

Agreed.

 

[PROPHECYKID]

I agree! But remember that the OT saints did not have knowledge of the shed blood of Jesus nor His ministry. They showed faith in God by sacrificing. But Jesus blood saves all from beginning to end. For He was the Lamb slain before the foundation of the World.

That's mostly true but some of them would have understood what was to come by way of the prophecies about Jesus Christ. But they never got to see it.

 

[PROPHECYKID]

I agree. God has never operated by a different set of rules. Different object of expressing faith- yes. Different rules, no!

But remember all 613 commands of the Mosaic Law have been rendered null and void! I do not commit murder because the ten commandments say that shalt not murder, I do not murder because it is written in teh New Testament for the church age believer!

Well in the new covenant God says he will put his laws in our hearts. What laws is that? That was said in Jeremiah and repeated in Hebrews. God's principles have always been been the same. Certain laws were given to accomodate for various conditions but what is wrong or right in the eyes of God never changes.

 

[nolidad]

Well in the new covenant God says he will put his laws in our hearts. What laws is that? That was said in Jeremiah and repeated in Hebrews. God's principles have always been been the same. Certain laws were given to accomodate for various conditions but what is wrong or right in the eyes of God never changes.

What is right and wrong never changes is true.

But the entire Mosaic Covenant was fulfilled in Jesus! It is not the Mosaic laws that will be put in anyone s hearts. Nor will it be the ten written in stone!

2 Corinthians 3:7
But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

The law was meant to guard Israel till faith came as Paul said in galatians. Obedience to the law did not make any Israeli righteous. So the law of God in the New covenant is something other than the 613 laws of the Mosaic Covenant (that includes the top ten)

http://www.arielcontent.org/dcs/pdf/mbs006m.pdf

 

[nolidad]

That's mostly true but some of them would have understood what was to come by way of the prophecies about Jesus Christ. But they never got to see it.

Yes, but they would not have known who, or that first He had to suffer the Fathers wrath to pay for our sin. Etc. They knew a Messiah was coming but very little beyiond that.