G-12 Vision

DEPO · Mar 28, 2005

This vision is the Government of Twelve:
Solomon (the wisest man who ever lived) had 12 men to govern the land)
Jesus (Son of God) chose twelve disciples
1.) Love God and Love people. These two commands cover all of the ten given to Moses by God.
2.) Win souls. The great commission is for all who believe, I joined this forum to help me in spreading the word to others. I hope to gain knowledge from this site and utilize that in evangelism.
3.) Make disciples. We are to go to the nations and make disciples but remember first
Luke 24:47 With my authority, take this message of repentance to all the nations, beginning in Jerusalem: 'There is forgiveness of sins for all who turn to me.'
We must first focus at home, in our city then to the world. If you can't win someone in your city why would you win someone in another country.
4.) Build your twelve: Build up your twelve disciples, and teach them to build up there twelve.

We need leaders in our church, leaders who build leaders, who disciple leaders, who win souls.

Any questions please post. I would like others input on this vision. My pastors Pastor in Bogota Columbia has a church that has grown to over 200,000 people and they have an average of 3,000 people give their life to Jesus each week.

9-iron · Mar 28, 2005

The pastor of the abusive church I came out of set the vision of the house as 'A people who really love God and really love other people'. Needless to say he didn't exactly show love to those who left his church! In fact he did everything he could to invalidate them, disfranchise them from the body, borderline speaking curses over them, bad mouth, and run them down to his congregation.

Andry · Mar 28, 2005

DEPO said:
This vision is the Government of Twelve:
Solomon (the wisest man who ever lived) had 12 men to govern the land)
Jesus (Son of God) chose twelve disciples
1.) Love God and Love people. These two commands cover all of the ten given to Moses by God.
2.) Win souls. The great commission is for all who believe, I joined this forum to help me in spreading the word to others. I hope to gain knowledge from this site and utilize that in evangelism.
3.) Make disciples. We are to go to the nations and make disciples but remember first
Luke 24:47 With my authority, take this message of repentance to all the nations, beginning in Jerusalem: 'There is forgiveness of sins for all who turn to me.'
We must first focus at home, in our city then to the world. If you can't win someone in your city why would you win someone in another country.
4.) Build your twelve: Build up your twelve disciples, and teach them to build up there twelve.

We need leaders in our church, leaders who build leaders, who disciple leaders, who win souls.

Any questions please post. I would like others input on this vision. My pastors Pastor in Bogota Columbia has a church that has grown to over 200,000 people and they have an average of 3,000 people give their life to Jesus each week.

Welcome to CF.

G12 - horsefeathers, IMHO, as far as the number 12 goes. Sounds like Amway. And I seriously question the G12 method.

As far as the 10 Commandments given to Moses..... you mean the Charleston Heston version where it was I, II, III, IV, V, VI.....etc......? That wasn't how it was given. There was no numbering (or verses for that matter) in the original text. We - the church - put that in as a nice "10".

DEPO · Mar 29, 2005

9-iron said:
The pastor of the abusive church I came out of set the vision of the house as 'A people who really love God and really love other people'. Needless to say he didn't exactly show love to those who left his church! In fact he did everything he could to invalidate them, disfranchise them from the body, borderline speaking curses over them, bad mouth, and run them down to his congregation.

I am truely sorry that you had that kind of experience in the church, if the pastor that spoke of Loving God and Loving People truely lived that vision he would not have cast out or cursed anyone.

DEPO · Mar 29, 2005

andry said:
Welcome to CF.

G12 - horsefeathers, IMHO, as far as the number 12 goes. Sounds like Amway. And I seriously question the G12 method.

As far as the 10 Commandments given to Moses..... you mean the Charleston Heston version where it was I, II, III, IV, V, VI.....etc......? That wasn't how it was given. There was no numbering (or verses for that matter) in the original text. We - the church - put that in as a nice "10".

The G-12 or Government of twelve shows up numerous times in the bible, this is the number of government. Solomon, the wisest man who ever lived, chose 12 to help him rule.
Jesus chose 12 disciples, need I say more.

If you are smarter than Solomon, and greater than Jesus, tell me where this is wrong.

And as for the ten comandments, sorry you are a legalist, I know that in the Bible they are not listed as:
Number 1: YOU SHALL HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE ME
Number 2: .....

I am not going to type them out but I am sure you realize that this isn't a numerology thing, at least I hope you do.

The vision is evangelical and a model of the New Testament Church which alot of people claim to be but few are.

If you have biblical scripture, not assumption, against this please let me know because I have not found it.

We are called to love God first, then people.....
We are commisioned to spread his word....

Andry · Mar 29, 2005

Depo, You're 13 posts young. I doubt you know anyone here yet, and you call me a legalist? Hah!

You're the one instituting "12". Who's a legalist?

Tell me this. Sure, Jesus called the 12, but one of the was a thief, the son of perdition. Why did Jesus pick Judas? Intentional or mistake?

I never said I was smarter than Jesus or Solomon. But get your exegesis right - or in your case eisegeis. They chose some people, 12, 10, 3.....it had to be a number - now through your interpretation you want to institute that number as the Biblical example when the Bible nowhere states or instructs or commands for us to use that number.

What of some homechurches too small to have a church government of 12 people? How about women as elders, or yikes, pastors? Yes or no. If no, you're the legalist.

A new model of the New Testament church you say. Ok, answer this, how is this new model to be financially supported? Tithing or no tithing?

I'd be interested to hear your response.

Blessings to you.

Jesusong · Mar 29, 2005

There was a local AG church that started a G12. Half the congregation didn't agree with the pastor on this, and were forced to leave. Not all are called to be leaders.

9-iron · Mar 29, 2005

A new model of the New Testament church you say. Ok, answer this, how is this new model to be financially supported? Tithing or no tithing?

How many times can a beast change his stripes?

DEPO · Mar 29, 2005

ANDRY:

Alright, If your home church is less than 12 say it is 3 or 2 should we settle and say lets stay at 3 or 2? No we are to multiply and be fruitful, winning souls. Is this saying that you can only have 12 in your home church? No it isn't.

If you don't know why Jesus chose Judas than I fear you need to read, if you are just being argumentative I am sorry. Yes I am new here to this site but I came to learn more about the way people are aproached and won to Jesus.

As for Financial support, we have a large gathering in a central building that is the Large Church, there is where the tithes and offerings are given. The cell groups are in the home of the leader that you are under, yes you can give your tithe and offering here but our storehouse in our case is the large curch.

As for women pastors check the post about that, I did post a reply there. You can post up here or there as a rebuttle to what I said there.

Also sorry for the legalist comment, I don't know you but I have been aproached by many people who are coming against the vision of my church and most of them are coming at it with a legalist prospective.

Jesusong:

I am sorry if they were forced out, if you do not agree with the vision of your church why are you there anyway? I encourage t go to a church where you agree with the vision of the church.
The church I attend would never force anyone out but we would encourage them to be involved in the vision of the church. Too many Christians live like hell all week and feel they can go to church on Sunday and be sanctified. Get involved in trhe vision of your church or find a curch that has a vision you agree with.

Andry · Mar 29, 2005

Depo,

Reading your posts..... I believe we have the same objectives, but with vary different perspectives to that end. The G12 IMHO is legalistic in their perspective. The G12 makes idolatory of the number 12.

Don't incorrectly presume I'm in a homechurch. That was used as an example because there are those of us here that are in homechurches of less than 12.

I know why Jesus chose Judas to be counted among the 12. That in itself says there is nothing magical or mystical about the number 12 in and of itself. Why not use 11 since Judas was the son of perdition? Or 13 if we kept Judas and added Paul.

You raised the issue of 'a model of the New Testament church', not me. That statement raises valid issues of women in leadership, and tithes and offerings. You cannot raise an issue with relevant implications that you are not willing to eloborate on. IMHO, perspective of the model of the New Testament church, is errorneous. And yes, unfortunately does lead to a discussion of tithes and offerings.

Lastly, and perhaps a typo on your part, so I'll not jump on it, but you stated, "the vision of my church"; perhaps you meant Jesus' church, which is us.

For clarity to my opening paragraph above, I'm so much for winning souls. The mission of the church is not within the walls of our churches; it's outside of our churches. And there is still a lot of work to be done when we look at the world around us. While I think the intent of the G12 is sincere, I question much of its process and strategy, and some of its doctrinal applications.

Jesusong · Mar 29, 2005

DEPO said:
Jesusong:

I am sorry if they were forced out, if you do not agree with the vision of your church why are you there anyway? I encourage t go to a church where you agree with the vision of the church.
The church I attend would never force anyone out but we would encourage them to be involved in the vision of the church. Too many Christians live like hell all week and feel they can go to church on Sunday and be sanctified. Get involved in trhe vision of your church or find a curch that has a vision you agree with.

It wasn't my church. Some of the people from that church are now coming to mine. My pastor doesn't agree with the philosophy of G12. He and other area pastors talked with this particular pastor about what they believe is wrong with it, but he (the G12 pastor) wouldn't heed the counsel. He believed that he is right and everyone else is wrong. That was the mentality that forced half his congregation to leave. He told them, "If you don't accept this then you must leave." The district office became involved with the issue, but I don't know what became of that.

JimB · Mar 29, 2005

I wish I had a dollar for every new and revolutionary plan that has come across my desk in the last forty years. I'd be debt free and retired by now.

~Jim

Jillymac · Mar 30, 2005

Hiya

My old church (i was part of one of the families that planted it) started the G12 movement once i had left (due to leadership becoming very much like a dictatorship). I now attend a Church of God where i used to attend sunday school.

Anyway, many people from the Church of God went to this (G12) church due to family ties and have since returned.

After speaking with many of the people, they were all under pressure to lead groups, whether they were fully confident or not in leadership, and this includes 14yr old girls!!
Every day of the week was taken up with teaching skills, going to one cell group and then leading another. The 14yr olds younger sister did not want to lead up a group and this caused problems - these are kids who are still learning who did not want to be given such a position!

These 2 girls were actually the nieces of the pastor in charge but because the pastor's sister in-law and family didn't agree very well with the way of things they were pretty much cut off.

Other people who attended this church left it and came back to us at the Church of God, they told us that they were not encouraged to socialise with anyone outwith the church, any visits to old friends were totally frowned upon (unless they were trying to convert them).

The pastor is my old best friend's father. I was best friends with him for 12years when they adopted this G12 approach and i have seen him once and that was at his wedding a year past in December. I have found out that he does see other friends who he was not so close to and of course they are all unsaved.

I have no problem with trying to win souls for the Lord, i do however, have a problem with the WAY they do it.

It is very much like a cult, it is very controlling and from what i have seen over the past few years it has a high turnover of backsliders. It welcomes in non-christians and new christians but as soon as the christians learn more they come to realise that they are being "heavily shepherded".

As i said this is just whats happened with the G12 church near us, because everyone ends up coming back to our church. It may start off with all the best intentions but it soon rears its ugly head.

Jilly

9-iron · Mar 30, 2005

DEPO,

I would encourage you to do the research on this before you get to deep in it. There are many, many people who have been hurt over similiar type of movements. At the very least it has the potential to leave one very frustrated spiritually.

DEPO · Mar 30, 2005

I appreciate the comments and concerns, yes the G-12 vision is hard and time consuming but it has helped me grow. I gave my seperated myself to God and I am sold out for Him. I had gone to other churches before, but not until I came to this church did I give my life to Jesus.
The cell groups are awesome and the classes are informative. I am called a fanatic but some but shouldn't we all be, the way I look at it is I belong to God not just on Sunday and on my cell group night but for eternity. I was purchased for a price and I want to do as Jesus said everyday Love God and Love people... this is the most important and if you love people the commission is easy. Make disciples, win them to the Lord, help to lead them and help them learn.

He gave all, we should also. Not that salvation is through works but as you know faith without works is dead.

9-iron · Mar 30, 2005

had gone to other churches before, but not until I came to this church did I give my life to Jesus.

He gave all, we should also

I hear ya and I agree with your premise. It seems we share some things in common, I also left a church at one point thinking I had found where I belong. The first year was pretty awesome, the second year I began to get frustrated, the third year it all fell apart.

Just make sure what you are doing and giving of yourself is truly for the Lord's work and not to build something of man. Hardest thing in the world to tell the difference. Especially when the man made thing appears so spiritual.

Going through what I did, I am just concerned. Take it slow, pray, and keep yourself educated. Be wise!!

Andry · Mar 30, 2005

Depo,

If the G12 'system' has helped you and brought life to your walk with Christ, then that's wonderful. I don't think anyone here is wantign to rain down on your enthusiasm, but only advising some caution and discernment as some of us have we've "been there, done that".

If you truly believe that's where God wants you to be or do at your point in life, then obey.

Blessings.

maccci · Feb 16, 2010

what about G12 now? what are the fruits of G12?

KingZzub · Feb 16, 2010

9-iron said:
DEPO,

I would encourage you to do the research on this before you get to deep in it. There are many, many people who have been hurt over similiar type of movements. At the very least it has the potential to leave one very frustrated spiritually.

9-iron is absolutely right here.

There is a G12 church near us and the fallout has been awful. It is a very controlling system where you have to be in a group that dictates how you live.

I am all for cells and pastor a cell church, but growth should be organic, not militaristic.

probinson · Feb 16, 2010

Holy cow! This thread is 5 years old!

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