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Featured Fundamentals of the Faith part 18 The coming of Christ to Deliver Israel

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Biblewriter, Nov 5, 2017.

  1. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

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    /nvm
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2017
  2. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

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    /nvm
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2017
  3. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    This is a direct attack on the reliability of the promises of God.
     
  4. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    Your argument would at least have some validity if the only promises made were to the children of Abraham or to Israel. But they completely break down in regard to the sub-nations of Judah and Ephraim, to the twelve tribes of Israel, to the sons of Zadok,and to the houses of David, Nathan Levi, and Shimei.
     
  5. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Not according to Him.

    Hebrews 8
    6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
     
  6. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Not according to Him.

    Hebrews 8
    6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.


    God has named all believers in Him, both Jew and Gentile, as heirs, and joint-heirs with Christ.

    Romans 8:16-17
    16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
    17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

    Galatians 3:29
    And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


    If someone were to name you in his or her will and testament as an heir, with a promised bequest, and then create a new will and testament specifying an even better and larger promised bequest for you; would you consider the testator to be unreliable for failing to deliver upon the original bequest?

    Draw the analogy.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2017
  7. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    I already gave the scripture that says how God shakes Israel among the nations and not one 'grain' will be lost. Amos 9:9
    God knows who His people are, the genealogies are kept in heaven and when we live in the holy Land, all will be revealed.
    There is also the proof of Isaiah 66:21, where God will choose Levites from among the Christians. Revelation 5:9-10
    Your determination to have an ethnic people of God, totally conflicts with the Work of Jesus. John 3:16
     
  8. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Gal 6:15 Certainly, it doesn't matter whether a person is circumcised or not. Rather, what matters is being a new creation.
    Gal 6:16 Peace and mercy will come to rest on all those who conform to this principle. They are the Israel of God.
    (GW)


    Jas 1:1  James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting. 
    Jas 1:2  My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; 
    Jas 1:3  Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.



    1Ti_1:4  Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.


    Tit_3:9  But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

    .
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2017
  9. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

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    /nvm
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2017
  10. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

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    /nvm
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2017
  11. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    That is not what the text says.

    If you were correct, then all of the Israelites would be "partially" blinded.
    However, we know this is not the case since some modern descendants of Jacob have accepted Christ.
    I know some of them, personally.


    Instead, part of the Israelites are blinded and part are not blinded.

    In Romans 11:1-5 Paul discusses two different groups of Israelites, one faithful and one not.

    These same two groups are found throughout the rest of the chapter.

    .
     
  12. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    [QUOTE="BABerean2, post: 71972540, member: 353202"
    Gal 6:16 Peace and mercy will come to rest on all those who conform to this principle. They are the Israel of God.
    (GW)
    [/QUOTE]

    If it were not so serious, it would be amusing, to see someone who makes a great point of others using a translation he does not like, pretending those people are changing scripture, and then quoting a translation that unquestionably does that very thing. For there is absolutely nothing in the Greek text to justify the words "they are" in the last clause above. The Greek text unquestionable says, "kai epi" which literally translates as "and on." There is simply no honest way to interpret "and on" to mean "they are."
     
  13. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    deleted
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2017
  14. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    If it were not so serious, it would be amusing, to see someone who makes a great point of others using a translation he does not like, pretending those people are changing scripture, and then quoting a translation that unquestionably does that very thing. For there is absolutely nothing in the Greek text to justify the words "they are" in the last clause above. The Greek text unquestionable says, "kai epi" which literally translates as "and on." There is simply no honest way to interpret "and on" to mean "they are."[/QUOTE]

    What is amusing is the condemnation over one passage and then the total ignorance of the passage from James 1:1-3.


    How about Peter addressing the crowd as "all the house of Israel" on the Day of Pentecost in Acts 2:36?

    And Paul calling himself an Israelite after his conversion, in Romans 11:1?

    How about the Old Testament promise of the New Covenant to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13?

    Somehow you are able to ignore these passages and then infer that I have not been honest by using the GW translation, which is commonly accepted by many Christians today.
    As a matter of fact, one of my fellow Gideons said his reading of the GW translation was a key part of him coming to faith in Christ.


    Others viewing our conversation here can clearly see who is being dishonest.

    Your doctrine only works by ignoring the New Covenant and the warnings below against genealogies.


    1Ti_1:4  Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.



    Tit_3:9  But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.


    (KJV version)

    .
     
  15. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    The express statements of the Holy Spirit are not my doctrine. They are His doctrine.
     
  16. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    The exact meaning of Galatians 6:16 is controversial because those who believe in a rapture to heaven of the Church, MUST maintain a separation between the Church and Israel, or their rapture theory falls apart. They say that the peace and mercy be upon them; applies to the Church, then [also] to the Israel of God.
    This interpretation is dubious at best, but when the context of the previous verses, Galatians 6:12-15, is studied, then it is plain that Paul is speaking to all Christians; circumcised or uncircumcised, Jew or Gentile: THEY ARE THE ISRAEL OF GOD.
     
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  17. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Newbie

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    You continue to falsely teach that Ezekiel 47 is a earthly Millennial Kingdom, where mortal humans are present living and dying, 100% false.

    Ezekiel 47:12 & Revelation 22:1-5 is the very same place, "The Eternal Kingdom"

    "The River And Tree Of Life Are Present"


    Fruit from the tree every month, leaves of the tree for healing/medicine.

    How far will one go in denying this basic scriptural truth?
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2017
  18. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    You continue to deny the explicit statements of scripture. :et God be true, and every man a liar.
     
  19. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    This controversy is another example of the unnecessary bickering that goes on far too much on the eschatological forums.
    Firstly this is not a salvation issue, we can comfortably wait in faith for what is prophesied here to unfold.
    Then, if common sense is employed, it isn't hard to see that some of Ezekiel 47 must be for Eternity, but the rest of Ezekiel 40-48 is for the time prior to Jesus Returning. This is proved by the fact the now Israelites of God, every faithful Christian, will come to live in all of the holy Land, Ezekiel 34:11-16, Isaiah 35:1-10, they will build a new Temple, Ezekiel 43:10-12, into which the Shekinah glory of God will come, Ezekiel 43:1-4, and their 'ruler' will make offerings the God in it. Ezekiel 46:12 A ruler who has sons and owns property, Ezekiel 46:16, and is elected by the people, Jeremiah 30:21, Hosea 1:11

    THIS is a fundamental truth of Bible prophecy, God's Plan to have His people in His Land, living as He always wanted us to be. Isaiah 49:8-13, Romans 9:24-26
    But as Bible prophecy says: this time will not last for very long, as the rest of the world will have a One World Government, Daniel 7:23, and their leader will come to the new nation of Beulah, Isaiah 62:1-5, and make a 7 year peace treaty with us. Daniel 9:27 Probably soon after our incredible victory over Gog and Magog. Joel 2:20 Where the Lord proves His power to us, but is not present physically as yet. Ezekiel 38:23
    This treaty is a mistake, Isaiah 28:14-15, and only 3 1/2 years later the leader of the OWG conquers Beulah. Zechariah 14:1-2, Revelation 13:5-8
    He sits himself in the Temple, 2 Thessalonians 2:4 and this desecration, Matthew 24:15, triggers the Great Tribulation of the 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls. Those faithful Christians who refused the accede to this treaty, Daniel 11:32, will be taken to a place of safety on earth, Revelation 12:14, until Jesus Returns, when they will be gathered to Him. 1 Thessalonians 4:17, Matthew 24:31
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2017
  20. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Newbie

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    I agree, many are falsely attacking the Church, that has inherited the promises and covenants.
     
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