Full preterism question

solid_core

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If the full preterism is true (and I am inclining to accept it), then we are the children of people who were left out of the wedding, right?

That would make us to live in "outer darkness". But full preterists seem to believe that we are actually in the "kingdom of God", which is not logical.

If some full preterist is here who can explain it, I would appreciate.
 

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If the full preterism is true (and I am inclining to accept it), then we are the children of people who were left out of the wedding, right?

That would make us to live in "outer darkness". But full preterists seem to believe that we are actually in the "kingdom of God", which is not logical.

If some full preterist is here who can explain it, I would appreciate.
The issue that turns me from preterism is there is much in Revelation that hasn't happened yet.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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The issue that turns me from preterism is there is much in Revelation that hasn't happened yet.
For the benefit, perhaps (maybe none?) of those of us who don't know - what does that have to do with preterism ? (specifically preterism, vs others who might have a similar or same belief?)
 
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solid_core

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No worries. It is not true. (why would anyone accept it?)
Because when you read Gospels without any church "explanation", then its naturally a full preterism text.

When you read the New Testament without any other doctrine outside of it, then you will see that its not written with the "end will come 2,000 years after us" idea in mind. They all thought it will happen soon, during their generation.
 
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solid_core

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I believe partial preterism is true.

If one does your research thoroughly through the Bible and history, you will soon see it is 100% correct.
What do you think did not happen yet, when you believe in partial preterism?
 
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-57

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For the benefit, perhaps (maybe none?) of those of us who don't know - what does that have to do with preterism ? (specifically preterism, vs others who might have a similar or same belief?)
The wedding is future. I'm assuming solid_core is speaking of the marriage supper of the Lamb.
 
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Josheb

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If the full preterism is true (and I am inclining to accept it), then we are the children of people who were left out of the wedding, right?

That would make us to live in "outer darkness". But full preterists seem to believe that we are actually in the "kingdom of God", which is not logical.

If some full preterist is here who can explain it, I would appreciate.
First, let me make a few comments about method. If a person want to discuss something that is genuinely not understood because there is a genuine motive to understand then it is incumbent upon that person to be as specific as they can be concerning their own inquiry and provide whatever information is helpful in understanding what is being asked. This provision should, but is not limited to, the scriptural references upon which any inquiry is based. In this case are you asking about the wedding of Matthew 22, the wedding of Matthew 25, the wedding of Revelation 19, or some other wedding in which some are left out?

The the inquiry, "[Are] we the children of people who were left out...?" also warrants clarification. Do you mean to ask if we are the biological progeny of those left out of the unspecified wedding? Or are you asking if we are the spiritual progeny?

Now since you've mentioned "outer darkness," I will assume for the moment this is a reference to Matthew 22's wedding feast and attempt a response accordingly, even though I am not full-pret. Those who do subscribe to that position can correct my post where warranted.

First, do the exegesis. To whom is Jesus speaking? He is speaking specifically and directly to the disciples, "the chief priests and the Pharisees," (vss. 21:33,45) and various Jews assembled in the temple. This is the day after his entrance into Jerusalem, the City of Peace (jeru=city; salem=peace), the day after he chased out the money-changers from the temple and cleaned it out from having been a "robber's den." Note also that this parable occurs early in what encompasses a single day that is accounted for in a narrative that covers sixe chapters (Mt. 21:18 through Mt. 26:5)!

In other words, Jesus is not specifically speaking to 21st century Christians about conditions necessarily in our future but he is observably speaking to first century Jews about conditions and events in their future. Jews, not Christians. There were no Christians at that point in history. This passage occurs prior to Calvary and prior to Pentecost.

Next, note that because of this audience affiliation the parable is spoken to Abrahamic and Mosaic covenant people, not Abrahamic and Christ covenant people. Note also that after Jesus chased out the robbers and returned he was teaching about the chief priests and Pharisees, as explicitly stated in
Mt. 21:45. Note also that after entering Jerusalem Jesus' teaching becomes judgmental and eschatological. His focus becomes Jerusalem, Judaism, and the Jewish religion institution(s).

At this point I encourage you to take a break from the post and examine the scriptures to verify what I have posted. Look it up.

Next, note that thise specific wedding parable is explicitly about "the kingdom of heaven," (vs. 22:1) so in order to understand what he's talking about it will require us to examine all of scripture as it pertains to the kingdom of heaven. Some believers make distinctions between the kingdom of God and the kingdom of heaven. I do not. Some make distinctions between the kingdoms of God and heaven and the kingdoms of the earth but when we survey all that scripture says about the kingdoms of God and heaven we see that the kingdom of heaven was then "at hand" (Mt. 3:2, 4:17) and in their midst there on earth in the first century, as well as a future place/condition that would be entered. Earlier Jesus had said the kingdom of heaven was for the poor in spirit and those persecuted and not for those who set aside the law - the law that testified to Christ!

Next, note that the king in the parable sent out his slaves to gather those who'd been invited to the wedding. So... we mst ask ourselves, "Who are the slaves of the king?" and "Who was already invited to the wedding at the time of this parable?" While the answer to the first question may be of some debate, I will argue it is those who are slaves to righteousness, not those who are slaves to sin. The answer to the second question is quite easy and apparent: the Jew!



Now I'm going to stop at this point because I believe you have enough information to either answer your own question or continue on exegetically examining the passage to do so. The parable is about the first century Jew(s) and the Judaic leadership. It is not about some unidentified future set of Christians.

The preterist, whether partial or full, will note God did send an army and he did "destroy those murderers and set their city on fire." He did so in 70 a.d.


So... in answer to the specific question specifically asked the answer is, "No, we are not the children left out of the wedding, unless perhaps you are of Jewish descent."


Now some will say, "That's all well and good for the specifics of the parable, but what about the principles illustrated in that parable that may well be timeless and still relevant to our day and age?" Great question. Off-topic, but great question. In order to answer that inquiry those "timeless principles" will have to be identified and justified, not made up based on eisegetic inferences. For the Dispensatonal Premillennialist (DP) this will pose a problem because that hermeneutic demands a literal interpretation of prophesy and an overt eschewing of figurative interpretations. Literally, the parable is about Jews in the first century. So any futurist interpretation violates the DP hermeneutic. Can't have it both ways.

(apologies for the length)
 
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mkgal1

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If the full preterism is true (and I am inclining to accept it), then we are the children of people who were left out of the wedding, right?

That would make us to live in "outer darkness". But full preterists seem to believe that we are actually in the "kingdom of God", which is not logical.

If some full preterist is here who can explain it, I would appreciate.
I'm not full preterist, but from what I understand, the only thing that sets my beliefs apart from a full preterist are that I believe in a still future return of Christ and a physical resurrection (neither of which should cause a different interpretation of this passage).

You're referring to the Parable of the Wedding Feast in Matthew 22, right? When you refer to "people who were left out of the wedding" - do you mean the man that didn't have the wedding clothes provided on (in verse 11)? That verse states:

Matthew 22:11 ~ “But when the king came in to meet the guests, he noticed a man who wasn’t wearing the proper clothes for a wedding.​

That's not believers. From what I recall - the wedding clothes are provided by the King......so this man entered the feast on his own. I think this most likely represents the Jew who believed that his ethnic descent from Abraham earned him an automatic place in the kingdom of God. The proper wedding garment, however, meant being clothed in the righteousness of Christ (see Revelation 19:8). Those who lacked these garments remained in outer darkness and were not part of the chosen people of God (vss. 13-14; see also Matthew 8:11-12; Matt. 13:24-30, 36-43; Matt. 21:43-45).


Quoting Adam Maarschalk:
Matthew 24-25 is one of three New Testament passages where the destructive judgment upon Jerusalem gives way to something far more redemptive and glorious, the wedding of Christ to His bride.

Hallelujah! For the Lord our God the Almighty reigns. Let us rejoice and exult and give Him the glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His bride has made herself ready” (Rev. 19:6-7).​
Mirroring the words of Jesus in Matthew 22 and 25, an angel proclaims, “Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb” (Rev. 19:9).

A New Testament Pattern: A Wedding Follows Jerusalem’s Demise
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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That's not believers.
For clarification: Possibly do you mean "That's not Ekklesia"?

A lot of people "believe", right up to Judgment day, who don't make it.
They are "believers", right ? Just not born again, et al....
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Because when you read Gospels without any church "explanation", then its naturally a full preterism text.
I read the whole Bible many times.
The thoughts you present in your posts are contrary to the Bible.
If your thoughts are the same as preterism, then it is contrary to the Bible also.
 
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mkgal1

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If your thoughts are the same as preterism, then it is contrary to the Bible also.
ALL Christians are preterists. Believing that Christ is the Messiah prophesied is an example of fulfillment of prophecy (so Messianic prophecies are now "praeter" or past....fulfilled at Christ Jesus' first advent).

Preterism, a Christian eschatological view, interprets some (partial preterism) or all (full preterism) prophecies of the Bible as events which have already happened. This school of thought interprets the Book of Daniel as referring to events that happened from the 7th century BC until the first century AD, while seeing the prophecies of Revelation as events that happened in the first century AD. Preterism holds that Ancient Israel finds its continuation or fulfillment in the Christian church at the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70.

The term preterism comes from the Latin praeter, which is a prefix denoting that something is "past" or "beyond"[1]. Adherents of preterism are known as preterists - Wiki

Quoting from CF forums: Partial Preterism:

Quoting from CF forums: Partial Preterism:
Partial preterism holds that most eschatological prophecies, such as the destruction of Jerusalem, the Antichrists, the Great Tribulation, and the advent of the Day of the Lord as a "judgment-coming" of Christ, were fulfilled either in AD 70 or during the persecution of Christians under the Emperor Nero. The Second coming and the resurrection of the dead, however, have not yet occurred in the partial preterist system. ~ Statement of Purpose - Eschatology Forum Statement of Purpose
 
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If the full preterism is true (and I am inclining to accept it), then we are the children of people who were left out of the wedding, right?

That would make us to live in "outer darkness". But full preterists seem to believe that we are actually in the "kingdom of God", which is not logical.

If some full preterist is here who can explain it, I would appreciate.

What does rationality (addressing the issue of the second coming specifically) tell you about full Preterism?

I suppose if someone wanted to call themselves a "full Preterist" they might be able to say so based on the concept of "all prophecy" being fulfilled; if one were to look at the second coming as a stated event and not a "prophetic" one. (I.E. prophetic being an event given information in the Scripture as to when it will occur.) There was a lot of prophetic information given in Scripture as to knowing when Christ would come the first time; but (arguably) nothing (or nearly nothing) concerning the second coming. I know thats not the common interpretation of what full Preterism means though.

To answer your question though about those left in outer darkness; Scripture gives us some clues as to what that is. It's to be "found outside the Kingdom" which generally isn't known until the person is confronted with judgement; (or by implication death - because I believe that all men come to know when they die if they will be eternally condemned or not). Hell and the Lake of Fire are described as places of torment.

Also, those deceived by their religiosity (be they Jews from the 1st century or people who believe they are Christians); generally deny that deception until confronted with judgement. Judgement Day is at the end of time; so the parable of the wedding feast would be upon the destruction of the current cosmos.
 
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