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From what I understand because I read the Bible

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by 67_Reasons, Jan 13, 2021 at 1:30 PM.

  1. 67_Reasons

    67_Reasons Yes; that is the Lord's prayer.

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    Not my will but the Lord's "Please correct me if you think I'm misguided".

    I heard a radio preacher say to me that no one has seen heaven and that NDEs are lies, but I feel contested to this theory not because I feel like it's half right and half wrong at the same time, and here is why;

    I'll start with my basics on why I think he's half wrong; In this world we have five realms. Our current place, the "Old Earth", The Ethereal Heaven "We die and go to Heaven", the new earth "John's heaven", Hades "Or Erebus", and the second death "Fire of hell".

    He would have me think no one has been to heaven or hell and come back to talk about it, but he didn't take into account that the brothers of Lazarus have been mentioned in the books of Luke and John, while one had seen the ethereal realms of Erebus and the Heaven we will know when we die;

    And I will complicate why I think he's half right; because of a book named Revelation where John speaks about a new earth, "No one has seen the new earth". Therefore no one has seen the realm of heaven. "Nothing added or taken of course".

    When I try to decipher a verse in my Bible, I start with a semi-complicated passage like 1st Corinthians 13, "Love is patient love is kind", then I look at John's epistle in my favorite verse "God is Love", Then I go back to Corinthians and think 1st John 4:16, then it's "God is patient God is kind". You see what I did here? But If you go back also to Psalm 103:8-9 You basically find the same argument in plain writing in David's text.

    Cool stuff there, I don't lean on my own understanding without applying scripture when it comes to what I learn from all sources, then I discern what I've learned and put it into a solid rock understanding, therefore it's understandable without the complication of "Is God involved"...
     
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  2. Thomas White

    Thomas White Well-Known Member

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    Where do you get the five realms premise?
     
  3. 67_Reasons

    67_Reasons Yes; that is the Lord's prayer.

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    I read Revelation as what was what other radio personalities have said we all come back in the end, and I believe this case with some sensitivity because I believe there are the afterlife realms as well as aftertime realms. We must understand what has been taught to us if we are needing help with the fear of the afterlives, because I've learned not to.
     
  4. tampasteve

    tampasteve ✡Messianic and Methodist✞ Staff Member Administrator CF Senior Ambassador Angels Team Supporter

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    NDE and "visions" are inherently difficult to prove or disprove. I would take any and all of them with a large dose of salt. People from many different faith traditions have claimed to see Heaven, Paradise, Nirvana, whatever, it is not just a Christian or Jewish thing. I would find them interesting to read as a curiosity, but I would also not base any beliefs on them if it is outside of what is already in scripture.
     
  5. Hazelelponi

    Hazelelponi Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Well John the revelator most certainly had a vision of heaven because he saw the Throne of God and the angels fall on their faces in worship of God, and he saw the great multitude no one can number... that's heaven, and he was given a vision of it.

    I do think NDE's have to be fully examined, each one... to determine whether what they envisioned was a vision from God, or Satan.

    Because I had an NDE, I've had to examine the topic in great detail and determine the matter for myself, and honestly, many I believe to be satanic... so many in fact it's quite easy to dismiss them almost wholesale.

    But Satan isn't the only one to operate and interact with man, God can and does too.

    I think in the end, we have to look at both the NDE itself, does it point the person to Christ? Or away from the gospel? Is this NDE Scriptural? And what fruit has having this NDE born in the individual as time passes? Are they monetizing the experience? Or have they just been led to the truth of Christ in some way and are now fully saved, and into a good Christian faith, or are they chasing some fashionable cult?

    It's better however in the long run, to just ignore the phenomenon altogether, because any NDE has far too many scriptural implications to bother sitting around analyzing them in minute detail to determine if they are true... mainly, they are for the one experiencing, and not for anyone else.
     
  6. 1213

    1213 Disciple of Jesus

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    I think in those it is about Paradise, which is not the same as heaven. I think one good way to understand Bible correctly is to look at what are the original words. For example, word hell can mean Hades or Gehenna and they are not the same thing.

    …The sea gave up the dead who were in it. Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them. They were judged, each one according to his works. Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. If anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.
    Revelation 20:12-15
     
  7. Der Alte

    Der Alte This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    I had my first encounter with someone who claimed to have had a NDE in '70 while in an Army advance course prior to returning to Viet Nam for a second tour. He claimed that he had a NDE in an operating room in a clearing station or field hospital in Viet Nam.
    I am a Christian and I was very skeptical until 39 years later when I had what was supposed to be a simple 45 minute, go home the same day, laparoscopic hernia repair.
    It turned into a 5 hour open surgery which went south. I had acute kidney failure, afibrillation, ileus [bowel obstruction] and sepsis [bacterial infection of the abdominal cavity due to bowel contents leaking.]
    Shortly after coming out of surgery I had trouble breathing and was very distressed. Two respiratory techs. came in. They started telling me "Take deep breaths." I struggled to. Suddenly I was calm, no longer distressed but they were saying "You have to breathe. Breathe Mr. "Alter" breathe." At that point I had a brief out of body experience. Then I was back on the bed struggling to breathe.
    Now I don't automatically disbelieve NDEs.
     
  8. 67_Reasons

    67_Reasons Yes; that is the Lord's prayer.

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    NDE Is more about what you've witnessed while being unconscious; my example "I was walking around a desert and the wind picked up and I was met by a stranger in a black cowboy suit that told me it wasn't my time yet". There are many accounts of being in wind shortly before meeting a spirit, "assumingly the Holy Ghost". I would've contest this but after my personal experience I find them somewhat justified in their theories. It's even in a song.

    Not just you could've died and was in distress and was partially awake...
     
  9. Der Alte

    Der Alte This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    What I "saw" was I was above the bed looking down on the backs of the 2 techs and I was not in distress, then suddenly I was back on the bed struggling to breathe.
     
  10. 67_Reasons

    67_Reasons Yes; that is the Lord's prayer.

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    I'm not saying you're wrong, Just a deeper understanding of the topic. This happens all the time too, as out of body experience is what "our" ghost is experiencing, while the experience is somewhat supernatural its actually not at all just that, but a NDE is what I was explaining to you. Even I have seen myself as I was in a hospital in a separate vision other than what I explained before.
     
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