LDS From an email of a Swedenborg follower all quote

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1. There are three heavens (D&C 76, Heaven and Hell chapter 5). Swedenborg divided the heavens into three: celestial, spiritual, and natural, with divisions so absolute that direct communication is generally not possible without divine help. Those of lower heavens in general cannot see the inhabitants of the higher heavens. Communication does occur between higher and lower realms, but those of the lower heavens are, in general, not so aware of its occurrence. The communication originates from what Swedenborg calls Acorrespondences,@ which are in the nature of the relationship of a symbol or allegory and which are a central feature of all creation, providing the means by which higher or more inner degrees of reality, beginning with God Himself, are related, typically in cause and effect fashion, to lower, more external degrees. The LDS parallel of Swedenborg=s heavens are the celestial, terrestrial, and telestial heavens. Swedenborg=s terms for the heavens are all biblical, and can be found in the scriptures that Mormons believe refer to these heavens, 1 Cor 15:40-42.[8] The counterpart of Swedenborg=s spiritual heaven is the LDS terrestrial heaven, which despite its name, is not depicted as being earthlike in LDS scripture. To describe the lowest of the heavens Joseph Smith invented a new term, telestial. Swedenborg stated that the heavens were arranged in layers around the central Sun of heaven, or the Lord God Jesus Christ. The natural heaven is the furthest from the center.

2. Priesthood robes are worn in heavenly marriage ceremonies. Swedenborg witnessed a marriage ceremony in heaven in which the husband wore robes like those of Aaron while the wife was arrayed as a queen. (D&C 131:2, Conjugial Love 20, 21). LDS doctrine mostly speaks of two orders of the priesthood, the Melchizedek and Aaronic, but also speaks of the patriarchal order as another order of the priesthood (D&C 132). Swedenborg=s description of the attire of the heavenly couple in the marriage ceremony of Cojugial Love 21 will strike a chord with all Mormons who have witnessed a temple marriage.[9]

3. There are three heavens in the celestial glory or kingdom (D&C 131:1, Arcana Coelestia 9993). Swedenborg states that there are three heavens, the celestial, spiritual and natural, and two kingdoms of heaven, the celestial and the spiritual. The organizational relationship between the three heavens and two kingdoms is complex and has long been a source of discussion among students of Swedenborg. In Arcana Coelestia 9993 [2], Swedenborg states that the celestial kingdom has three divisions, and also stated in Arcana Coelestia 5922 [2] that the celestial kingdom is the celestial heaven. Through the Lord=s direction and by means of angels that communicate between them they act in unison. Mormons understand D&C 131:1 to mean that the celestial heaven, Aglory@ in D&C 131:1, is divided into three heavens. Swedenborg also used the word Aglory@ to refer to kingdoms, Arcana Coelestia 5922 [2]. While, again, the exact interpretation of the three heavens-two kingdoms distinction remains a matter of discussion in the New Church, the parallels with LDS doctrine are still obvious.

4. You must be married in heaven to inherit the highest heaven (D&C 131:2, Conjugial Love 54(5), 155). Monogamy is central, according to Swedenborg, to all of heaven, although there are a few exceptions, such as sincere celibates and some Islamics in polygamous relationships, who live at the fringes or Aside@ of the lower heavens. Marriage mimics (or, in Swedenborg=s term and concept, Acorresponds to@) the relationship between God and His Church since their ultimate destiny is approach unity. Again, Swedenborg states that an absolute requirement to inherit the highest heaven is heterosexual marriage. Marriage, according to Swedenborg, means the separate minds of man and wife become so closely spiritually linked that they become one mind (and married couples in heaven, seen from a distance, may appear on occasion as one individual). The Doctrine and Covenants simply states that the highest heaven in the celestial glory cannot be attained without eternal marriage (D&C 132:2). Without eternal marriage men and women cannot be fulfill the purpose of their creation or reach the highest degree of spiritual attainment which is possible for them, or in Swedenborg=s words, cannot approach the Lord (Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, Vol.3, p.333, Conjugial Love 155). Swedenborg saw married partners in heaven as being two halves of good and truth or love and wisdom. The unity of these two is fundamental to creation, the husband bringing wisdom externally and love internally and the wife bringing love externally and wisdom internally to the union. LDS ideas aren=t so specific but similar concepts are hinted at in the temple.

5. The world of spirits is a place of preparation for either heaven or perdition (Alma 12:24, 34:32-34, 40:21, Heaven and Hell 421, 422). Both LDS doctrine and Swedenborg state that the world of spirits is the portal through which all mankind passes on to prepare for either heaven or perdition. This idea is distinct from the Catholic idea of purgatory in which only the righteous go who are destined for heaven. Purgatory is also seen as a place of punishment. Most of Christianity rejects the idea of purgatory, or a spiritual abode separate from heaven or hell, as being non-scriptural. Swedenborg taught that for newly arrived spirits, the world of spirits is nearly identical to this one. LDS doctrine refers to the world of spirits as a continuation of this life where men make decisions about their eternal outcome and eventually inherit one of the three heavens or perdition (Alma 12:24, Alma 34:32-34 where Athis life@ is taken to extend into the world of spirit). This is echoed in Swedenborg=s teachings as well, but for Swedenborg the ultimate fate of the soul is determined by the individual=s Aruling love,@ or basic spiritual orientation toward good or evil, at the time of passing from mortality (Heaven and Hell 427). LDS doctrine states that men are not only judged by their actions, but the desires of their heart (Alma 41:3, Helaman 14:29-31, Mosiah 2:34-39; Doctrine and Covenants 137:9) . The LDS concept of the world of spirits allows a wide range of choice for those who have never encountered true principles during their lifetime. Mormons believe that a person may remain in the world of spirits for hundreds or thousands of years while Swedenborg generally limits this time of preparation to a mere thirty years (1 Peter 3:18-20, Heaven and Hell 426. It might be noted that Swedenborg teaches that there was an exception to the thirty year rule in past history, at a time when there existed Afalse heavens,@ realms created in the spirit world which trap those who would otherwise progress to heaven or perdition, but that these were eliminated at the time of the Last Judgment, which Swedenborg states occurred in the year 1757 (Last Judgement 64). LDS teachers indicate that repentance is much easier in the physical realms than in the world of spirits while Swedenborg indicates that it is impossible anywhere but the physical existance (Journal of Discourses 3:230 and 3:371, Heaven and Hell 480).

6. There are angels who communicate between heavens (Doctrine and Covenants 76:86-88, Heaven and Hell 27, 35). Swedenborg states that higher heavens communicate with lower ones through intermediary angels and through correspondence (Heaven and Hell 35, 88). Swedenborg=s description of angelic communication between heavens is fascinating, Aas is often done, angels are raised up by the Lord out of a lower heaven into a higher that they may behold its glory; for then they are prepared beforehand, and are encompassed by intermediate angels, through whom they have communication...@ (Heaven and Hell 35). Communication is facilitated by raising the awareness of lower angels to that of the higher heaven so that the message can be perceived or understood. The Doctrine and Covenants states that Asome@ of the celestial heaven minister to those in the terrestrial (spiritual?) heaven, and Asome@ of the terrestrial (spiritual?) heaven minister to those of the telestial (natural?) heaven. Swedenborg describes societies of angels whose principal function is communication between the kingdoms of heaven (Heaven and Hell 27). Doctrine and Covenants 76:88 states that the angels who communicate to lower heavens are Aappointed@ for this task, paralleling the Swedenborgian idea that angelic societies tend to have a specialization.

7. Likens the celestial, spiritual (terrestrial?), and natural (telestial?) heaven to the sun, moon, and stars (D&C 76:50,71,81, 88:7-9, Heaven and Hell 117-120, 129, Apocalypse Revealed 65). I place this at the end of the list because there is a significant difference embeded in the similarity, namely that Swedenborg speaks of the heavens and their illumination while LDS scriptures speak of the bodies of the inhabitants of those heavens. Nevertheless, the aspects of the teachings that are similar are unique in Christianity and not clear in the King James version of 1 Cor 15:40-42. Allegorically, Swedenborg likens both the nature of each heaven as well as the illumination in the sky of each heaven to the sun, moon, and stars (Heaven and Hell 119). He states that the sun of the celestial heaven and the moon of the spiritual kingdom is the Lord (Heaven and Hell 118). Swedenborg states that the communities of the natural heaven appear as stars in the sky to inhabitants of the world of spirits (Apocalypse Revealed 65). In the Joseph Smith translation of I Cor 14:40-42 and in Doctrine and Covenants 76:70,71,81; the resurrected bodies of those in the celestial, terrestrial, and telestial heavens are likened to the sun, moon, and stars. In Doctrine and Covenants 88:7,8, the Lord is said to be the light of the sun and is in the sun and also the light of the moon and is in the moon. Verse 9 states that He is also the source of the light of the stars but does not state the He is in the stars. It could well be that these verses speak of the spiritual realms more than the physical.

Other Similarities

These following similarities are interesting, but common to more than just LDS Church and New Church teachings. There are significant differences embedded in some of the similarities. These are explained as far as understood by the author.

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The above post is a quote that was recommended by someone in the S Church. The link goes to the article that compares and contrasts the S author with JS or LDS teachings. I emailed several experts in the S church. I will post any links they give. It is always best to ask experts.
 
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Daniel Marsh

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got this in email,

Vermont has a long tradition as the home of utopian, perfectionist, and millenarian communities. Especially in the period 1830 to 1850, Vermont was the scene of many new and radical social, economic, and religious movements such as John Humphrey Noyes’s perfectionists in Putney, who eventually moved to Oneida, New York; the Millerites, who, throughout the state, awaited the Second Coming on March 21, 1844; Mormons; Swedenborgians; Fourierists, who were particularly concerned about the evils of industrial society and formed “Associative communities” where skills, labor, and capital would be shared and combined to create productive, just communities; and Garrisonites, who advocated a communal response and commitment to abolitionism.Back to the Land: Communes in Vermont, 1968 - Vermont Historical Society
 
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Daniel Marsh

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FYI - posting long walls of text like that tends to turn off readers and keep them from actually reading what you're posting.

On long quotes one needs only read the topic sentences
 
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Daniel Marsh

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Daniel, I admit I'm loosing interest in responding to any of your threads. I'd really like to get to know you, have a conversation with you.. but I've been feeling very ignored and like you don't want to share your own thoughts. It... kind of demotivating.

I have been too busy lately off line, dealing with care giving problems
 
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Jane_Doe

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I have been too busy lately off line, dealing with care giving problems
I understand the demands of care-giving and my prayers go out to you for whatever you & your loved ones are going through. If your time on CF is limited, may I suggest that it would be best spent replying to a few posts with your own words, rather than many posts of other people's words?
 
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got this in email,

Vermont has a long tradition as the home of utopian, perfectionist, and millenarian communities. Especially in the period 1830 to 1850, Vermont was the scene of many new and radical social, economic, and religious movements such as John Humphrey Noyes’s perfectionists in Putney, who eventually moved to Oneida, New York; the Millerites, who, throughout the state, awaited the Second Coming on March 21, 1844; Mormons; Swedenborgians; Fourierists, who were particularly concerned about the evils of industrial society and formed “Associative communities” where skills, labor, and capital would be shared and combined to create productive, just communities; and Garrisonites, who advocated a communal response and commitment to abolitionism.Back to the Land: Communes in Vermont, 1968 - Vermont Historical Society

Seriously? There were Swedenborgians in Vermont? I didn't know that!
 
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I think it is important to read the entire article, see the 'link', not just what was selectively posted here. There seems to be a slant towards Joseph Smith knowing all of Swedenborg's teachings or sufficient to have similar doctrines.

I have only read The Spiritual Diary of Emmanuel Swedenborg (All 6150 pages). I discovered Swedenborg by studying Salvia Divinorum, a Mexican Indian plant that puts one in contact with the other world. The author of:

Salvia Divinorum: Doorway to Thought-Free Awareness
Feb 17, 2010 | Kindle eBook by J. D. Arthur

J.D. Arther makes reference to Swedenborg and how similar his experiences are. I became very interested in Swedenborg from the point onward.

I have experimented with S. Divinorum, in fact today I am planning a S. Divinorum journey.

One of the reasons it is so difficult to read Emmanuel's works is because it is nearly impossible to describe the existence beyond this 3D world. The journey out side this state is more than 4D, it can be 12D and even more complex than that. Time and space collide. Time can only be described as pockets and moments.

On the other side, you learn that this life is more of the illusion, quite the opposite of thinking the journey is the illusion. To remain there is more than compelling. For those who are not in a state of meekness, humility, highest respect and submission to the higher glory of this realm, may have a most exquisite terrifying experience to the degree, they will never try s. divinorum again. It can be life altering in a good way for most.

There are horrors awaiting those who are not in keeping with the good graces of humanity and the spirit of Charity and love of man more than self. Swedenborg often makes reference to vastation, a process to bring one to the state of meekness and humility, many who pass through this vastation will in short time resort back to their pride and stubbornness. The process is repeated and repeated until finally the heart has been broken and made contrite.

By reading the article linked below, I am more inclinded to believe Joseph Smith, if a prophet, was likely moving forward more of the same. There are many major contradictions between Joseph Smith the prophet and Swedenborg. Swedenborg actually makes reference to 7 levels or degrees in what I have read. The Godhead, resurrection etc. Yet on the other-side perception is everything. Trying to describe one specific state or existence on this side of the realm is nearly impossible such that both teachings could be correct relative to some segment or dimension or position or perspective.


These following similarities are interesting, but common to more than just LDS Church and New Church teachings. There are significant differences embedded in some of the similarities. These are explained as far as understood by the author.

Article
 
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Daniel Marsh

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I think it is important to read the entire article, see the 'link', not just what was selectively posted here. There seems to be a slant towards Joseph Smith knowing all of Swedenborg's teachings or sufficient to have similar doctrines.

I have only read The Spiritual Diary of Emmanuel Swedenborg (All 6150 pages). I discovered Swedenborg by studying Salvia Divinorum, a Mexican Indian plant that puts one in contact with the other world. The author of:

Salvia Divinorum: Doorway to Thought-Free Awareness
Feb 17, 2010 | Kindle eBook by J. D. Arthur

J.D. Arther makes reference to Swedenborg and how similar his experiences are. I became very interested in Swedenborg from the point onward.

I have experimented with S. Divinorum, in fact today I am planning a S. Divinorum journey.

One of the reasons it is so difficult to read Emmanuel's works is because it is nearly impossible to describe the existence beyond this 3D world. The journey out side this state is more than 4D, it can be 12D and even more complex than that. Time and space collide. Time can only be described as pockets and moments.

On the other side, you learn that this life is more of the illusion, quite the opposite of thinking the journey is the illusion. To remain there is more than compelling. For those who are not in a state of meekness, humility, highest respect and submission to the higher glory of this realm, may have a most exquisite terrifying experience to the degree, they will never try s. divinorum again. It can be life altering in a good way for most.

There are horrors awaiting those who are not in keeping with the good graces of humanity and the spirit of Charity and love of man more than self. Swedenborg often makes reference to vastation, a process to bring one to the state of meekness and humility, many who pass through this vastation will in short time resort back to their pride and stubbornness. The process is repeated and repeated until finally the heart has been broken and made contrite.

By reading the article linked below, I am more inclinded to believe Joseph Smith, if a prophet, was likely moving forward more of the same. There are many major contradictions between Joseph Smith the prophet and Swedenborg. Swedenborg actually makes reference to 7 levels or degrees in what I have read. The Godhead, resurrection etc. Yet on the other-side perception is everything. Trying to describe one specific state or existence on this side of the realm is nearly impossible such that both teachings could be correct relative to some segment or dimension or position or perspective.


Welcome and what is a S. Divinorum journey?
 
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Welcome and what is a S. Divinorum journey?
Hey Daniel, Thank you very much! Salvia divinorum comes from a Shaman Mexican Indian group near Oaxaca. They have used this plant for a thousand or hundreds of years for mystic religious journeys and healing. Of all the hallucinogenics, s. divinorum is the most powerful, most vivid, consistent, disconnecting your conscious or "spirit" from your mortal experience. In short, it puts you into the realm of the dead. Yet, it is the shortest lasting; 10 to 30 minutes if administered via combustion (smoking) or vaping. Chewing on the raw leaves as the Shaman Indians do, it can last for an hour or a bit longer. Those who think it is a recreational substance often have horrific terrifying experiences and will never try it again. Those who respect the substance or the plant as sacred and approach it with all meekness, humility and are always willing to submission to a higher righteous power will be lead by individuals to great wonders which cannot be described in words. Those who have a pure love for humanity and their fellow man, who are courageous to stand for truth and goodness and/or willing to give their life for their brother, those with this kind of consciousness in all truth, receive the most delightful journeys and experiences. Those who are seeking to prove there is no higher power, a higher power of love and one of omniscience, or who are seeking a sign and are skeptical or just flat out self-willed, may have a most horrific experience and remain in a life of fear and terror or can be overcome by dark unrighteous hateful entities.
 
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