French Christians, Muslims, Jews rally against gay marriage

[durangodawood]

Our government isn't based on majority rule.

Yes it is...... expressed through representatives, and tempered by constitutional protections for the minority.
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[seeking Christ]

SSM is not about "sexual relations (as if what 2 consenting adults do in the privacy of their own bedroom is any of their business to begin with)"

Neither is it about special rights, but special privilege, created anew. If there is no longer a marriage penalty, I can see making allowance for committed homosexual couples in the tax code. The same probably goes for everything you can legitimately label as a "right." Who your spouse is is not a right at all. Very few honest people would state that they are married to their top pick; most people settle. The whole idea of it somehow being a "right" is bogus.

 

[durangodawood]

SSM is not about "sexual relations (as if what 2 consenting adults do in the privacy of their own bedroom is any of their business to begin with)"

Neither is it about special rights, but special privilege, created anew. If there is no longer a marriage penalty, I can see making allowance for committed homosexual couples in the tax code. The same probably goes for everything you can legitimately label as a "right." Who your spouse is is not a right at all. Very few honest people would state that they are married to their top pick; most people settle. The whole idea of it somehow being a "right" is bogus.

Is marriage a "privilege" for a man and a woman?
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[awitch]

Who your spouse is is not a right at all. Very few honest people would state that they are married to their top pick; most people settle. The whole idea of it somehow being a "right" is bogus.

So since heterosexuals don't always get their top pick, homosexuals shouldn't get any pick at all?

 

[seeking Christ]

Is marriage a "privilege" for a man and a woman?
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I'm not sure of the best way to describe it in secular terms. Marriage is a Covenant 2 people enter into with God Himself. God is a party to that, and He clearly excludes SSM as a possibility.

So it is appropriate to leave marriage out of the picture, as it pertains to homosexuality. Legal / civil rights are another matter completely.

 

[seeking Christ]

So since heterosexuals don't always get their top pick, homosexuals shouldn't get any pick at all?

I'm just pointing out its not a right, and thinking otherwise is absurd. (Yeah, I know, some courts have made this outlandish mistake. Our Judicial branch doesn't have a track record of clear thinking, although some Judges are gems)

 

[durangodawood]

I'm not sure of the best way to describe it in secular terms. Marriage is a Covenant 2 people enter into with God Himself. God is a party to that, and He clearly excludes SSM as a possibility.

So it is appropriate to leave marriage out of the picture, as it pertains to homosexuality. Legal / civil rights are another matter completely.

You are describing Christian marriage. There are other kinds.
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[seeking Christ]

I think throughout human history marriage has been observed in similar fashion, regardless of affiliation with Christianity.

 

[durangodawood]

I think throughout human history marriage has been observed in similar fashion, regardless of affiliation with Christianity.

Things change. Morals evolve.
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If you want to keep a Christian marriage as you define it, no one's stopping you.
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[seeking Christ]

Things change. Morals evolve.

Of course, but one question before our Nation at the moment is, "is this progress?"

If you want to keep a Christian marriage as you define it, no one's stopping you.
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No one except my ex-wife, who was intolerable

 

[ViaCrucis]

I think throughout human history marriage has been observed in similar fashion, regardless of affiliation with Christianity.

Not really.

Marriage has always been a somewhat variable concept amongst different cultures. Monogamy, polygamy, polyandry, concubinage, etc have been different forms of marriage, as an example. In a lot of cases marriages were familial contracts (i.e. arranged marriages), in other words it was a business transaction; more like a modern corporate merger than anything else.

I'm not saying marriage isn't sacred; just that there isn't some all encompassing universal definition across the globe and history.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Zoness]

Since nobody responded to my latest post for whatever reason I'll just enter on a new line of thought:

Can Christians explain to me while homosexuals getting married scares them? As ViaCrucis said, marriage is variable among culture...Christians can have Christian weddings just fine in their churches as Muslims can have marriages in their mosques and Pagans can have handfasting marriages in the forest.

Legally, it all requires a certificate anyways so what is the big threat to Christianity? I really want to know an explanation of this.

 

[durangodawood]

Since nobody responded to my latest post for whatever reason I'll just enter on a new line of thought:

Can Christians explain to me while homosexuals getting married scares them? As ViaCrucis said, marriage is variable among culture...Christians can have Christian weddings just fine in their churches as Muslims can have marriages in their mosques and Pagans can have handfasting marriages in the forest.

Legally, it all requires a certificate anyways so what is the big threat to Christianity? I really want to know an explanation of this.

It doesnt threaten private Christianity at all.
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But it does threaten their vision of a nation based on Christian morals.
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[seeking Christ]

Can Christians explain to me while homosexuals getting married scares them?

Can you explain to me why phobia is invoked? It's ludicrous.

 

[seeking Christ]

Since nobody responded to my latest post for whatever reason

You mean this?

If you are assuming this is my line of thinking.

My point is that this is how people will see it in the future. Religions [Christianity in the case] are pointedly anti-progress.

Its a just-so statement. I don't see it as having any merit at all, especially since the sciences were pioneered by those crediting God for their inspiration. What sort of response were you going for?

 

[seeking Christ]

It doesnt threaten private Christianity at all.
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But it does threaten their vision of a nation based on Christian morals.
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Correction: it removes the freedom to raise children in a society with clear boundaries of right and wrong.

 

[durangodawood]

Correction: it removes the freedom to raise children in a society with clear boundaries of right and wrong.

Everyone would like that. BUT We all share society with other people who might have slightly different values. Society doesnt belong to you alone.
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[seeking Christ]

It is coming to a head on this issue - who "owns" society? Couching it as a civil rights issue is a wise strategy, some are even fooled by it. DOMA being bad legislation contrary to its own best interests is in evidence. This and so many other things were avoidable with a little common sense ...

 

[ViaCrucis]

It doesnt threaten private Christianity at all.
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But it does threaten their vision of a nation based on Christian morals.
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I don't really believe in a private vs public Christianity; but I do agree with the political aspect of your point.

The Religious Right has a tendency to view "Christianity" as an instrument of culture and civilization (not necessarily in those explicit of terms).

It's not Christianity or the Church that's threatened, it's an imagined Christian Civilization, concerning which the United States is the last great bastion (seeing Europe as having fallen). Gay marriage is seen as a threat against this imagined Christian culture and civilization.

It boils down more to power than religion, usually.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[durangodawood]

I don't really believe in a private vs public Christianity; but I do agree with the political aspect of your point.

The Religious Right has a tendency to view "Christianity" as an instrument of culture and civilization (not necessarily in those explicit of terms).

It's not Christianity or the Church that's threatened, it's an imagined Christian Civilization, concerning which the United States is the last great bastion (seeing Europe as having fallen). Gay marriage is seen as a threat against this imagined Christian culture and civilization.

It boils down more to power than religion, usually.

-CryptoLutheran

I mean "private" as in the personal activities of free people. Not as in hidden or secret.
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And as opposed to "public": state sponsored or legislated, public-sector.
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I think youre right about the Christian Civilization.
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