Freewill and destiny

[Dave L]

Where does our free will end and our preordained destiny begin? It seems they contradict each other. Or at the very least our freewill is limited.

We freely choose what we want, but God controls our free choices through the reasons we base them on.

 

[Words1234]

Where does our free will end and our preordained destiny begin? It seems they contradict each other. Or at the very least our freewill is limited.

freewill is in predestination

 

[GOD Shines Forth!]

I should have said predestined.
So it sounds like everyone is predestined until their not. As in they make the choice not to be Gods.
It always concerns me for those that are not predestined, what choice do they have. So I would rather think that we all are predestined and then given the choice to not be.

I think the answer to the mystery lies in God's decision--in the time of HIS choosing--to take a person's own hardening attitude to Him and then use that for His purposes by judicially hardening THEM. We see how He used Israel in this way to bring the "salvation of God" to the Gentiles. Or Judas to bring about the necessary betrayal of Jesus. Etc.

Thus the idea of warning men "Today, if you hear His voice, do not harden your hearts..."

Still, it's a mystery. We always have to assume a person CAN be reached with the word of life. How do we know what they'll do in the future?

 

[His student]

Where does our free will end and our preordained destiny begin? It seems they contradict each other. Or at the very least our freewill is limited.

Free will does not end where the predestination of our choices begins. They do not contradict each other.

The two work hand in hand. Our choices bring to pass what God has predestined to occur.

Now - if we were to talk about election (God's choice of who to draw to the Son through His effectually call) the subject gets a bit deeper.

In those cases God's free will and the free will of those whom He so calls both bring to pass what He has predestined to occur.

Are we talking specifically about the predestination of those so called to be conformed to the image of God's Son -- or are we taking about the general predestination of all that happens in the creation?

Both are biblical doctrines. But each has it's own components or lack of components that bring them to pass.

 

[Blade]

Some things being said here are not revealed in the Scripture. Yet.. there's nothing that says I can do all this alone. There are many things I can do.. but will only take me so far.. I then can also make a choice. It still relies on something else..or SOMEONE as in GOD to make it happen.

You know there is only so much He will let us know right? So many things right now on this earth.. would not help us in anyway. After.. we will know understand. There was plan. Not to control...no puppets.

See for me.. I have to look at it like.. this right now? Was not the way He wanted it. That TREE was not put there knowing Adam and Eve would take it. God temps no one. See there was plan from the start. Were talking about a GOD people. Is it that hard to believe we can be free..so free..yet He still had a plan..and it all works out for His glory?

Can not God take some verse..His word and never give the same meaning twice..but have endless meanings? I say that because only once .. He said to me "remember when Daniel prayed". I don't know how to explain it. It just exploded it.. SO MANY meanings in just those 4 word.. AWESOME! Maybe like some SAY (take with a grain of salt) see colors in heaven. How do you tell someone all those colors?

Oh.. just to finish.. I said.. ok if this is really you...where was that written. I knew the story.. Daniel prayed.. Angel came. He said "Daniel 10 9-12". This is one of those.. that you lock up in your heart. Well.. I was a kid.. never read the OT ever! This kind of thing only happened twice in 58 years.

I know I am free....yet its still all Him. He knew I was going to be saved.. but I still had a choice that still could have went any way.

 

[ilovejcsog]

There are a lot of different opinions on this still. I have this question although I have decided the easy way out and say we all are predestined.
Is it possible that some are chosen by God and some aren't? It has always been on my mind that if some aren't but want to be what chance do they have try as they may if they are not predestined Gods. Does that make any sense to anyone.
Put simply, If we are not chosen to be Gods do we have a chance to become his?

 

[JIMINZ]

I have decided the easy way out and say we all are predestined.

Then some clarification is needed, what do you base that statement upon?

Can you verify it?

You say your Non-Denomination, but your Doctrine is Calvinist, how does that work?

 

[ilovejcsog]

I don't know that we are but that is the only way I can include everyone in Gods plan for them otherwise there are people out there that may work to be saved to no avail because they weren't chosen.

My denomination is not important to you but I will say that I am many all put together as in a mutt of a Christian. I don't know what calvanist is.

 

[JIMINZ]

>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

[JIMINZ]

Fee will does not end wherethe predestination of our choices begins. They do not contradict each other.

Of course they don't contradict each other, that's because, neither one is a true concept, they both only reside in the mind of man, with the desire for them to be a reality.

The two work hand in hand. Our choices bring to pass what God has predestined to occur.

You sound as though you have this belief down pat, but are you able to back up the statement with Scripture which says the same as you do?

Now - if we were to talk about election (God's choice of who to draw to the Son through His effectually call) the subject gets a bit deeper.

The Election only pertained to those Jews of the time of Christ, not Gentiles.

In those cases God's free will and the free will of those whom He so calls both bring to pass what He has predestined to occur.

Again, all your doing is making unverifiable statements as though they were truth.

Are we talking specifically about the predestination of those so called to be conformed to the image of God's Son -- or are we taking about the general predestination of all that happens in the creation?

Finally, that question is what needs to be answered by the OP

Both are biblical doctrines. But each has it's own components or lack of components that bring them to pass.

Sorry but only one of these beliefs is actually spoken of in Scripture, the other is an assumption concerning Predestination unto Salvation.

Rom. 8:29
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

 

[ilovejcsog]

You are being argumentative. You have an opinion, that doesn't make you right.

 

[JIMINZ]

You are being argumentative. You have an opinion, that doesn't make you right.

It would really be of great benefit if, when you are replying to someone that you used their post to do it with, rather than just making an open post to the entire thread, where nobody knows who your talking to.....Thanks

You have never addressed any post you have made to this thread, especially the last three in the last 45 Min. #27, #29, #32

 

[JacksBratt]

Where does our free will end and our preordained destiny begin? It seems they contradict each other. Or at the very least our freewill is limited.

Can you show me some scripture that indicates that any of my future is "preordained"?
God has a plan for us, that is for sure... but we have total free will in what we do.

I may pray for guidance in accepting a new job, buying a car, what house to purchase or even when to move... but I make the choice... in the end.

I am always searching to do what is right and what God would be pleased with me doing.... but.. I don't agree with some "preordained" path.

So, if you had some scripture that indicates this, I would surely appreciate it.

 

[sdowney717]

Can you show me some scripture that indicates that any of my future is "preordained"?
God has a plan for us, that is for sure... but we have total free will in what we do.

I may pray for guidance in accepting a new job, buying a car, what house to purchase or even when to move... but I make the choice... in the end.

I am always searching to do what is right and what God would be pleased with me doing.... but.. I don't agree with some "preordained" path.

So, if you had some scripture that indicates this, I would surely appreciate it.

How about this.
Psalm 139
13 For You formed my inward parts;
You covered me in my mother’s womb.
14 I will praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
Marvelous are Your works,
And that my soul knows very well.
15 My frame was not hidden from You,
When I was made in secret,
And skillfully wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
16 Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed.
And in Your book they all were written,
The days fashioned for me,
When as yet there were none of them.

 

[sdowney717]

v17, here is where all is not all men, but only those individuals who are called by God, the all refers to all of that group.
God visited the nations to take out from them a people for His name.
That is a determined action on God's part and His choice for each one, only those chosen will believe and be saved.

Acts 15
12 Then all the multitude kept silent and listened to Barnabas and Paul declaring how many miracles and wonders God had worked through them among the Gentiles. 13 And after they had [c]become silent, James answered, saying, “Men and brethren, listen to me: 14 Simon has declared how God at the first visited the Gentiles to take out of them a people for His name. 15 And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written:

16 ‘After this I will return
And will rebuild the tabernacle of David, which has fallen down;
I will rebuild its ruins,
And I will set it up;
17 So that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,
Even all the Gentiles who are called by My name,
Says the Lord who does all these things.’

 

[PaulCyp1]

We have no preordained destiny. God created us with free will, which means the ability are right to freely choose our own destiny. He has provided us with a great deal of information to assist us in choosing wisely, but in the end, our destiny is our choice.

 

[His student]

Fee will does not end wherethe predestination of our choices begins. They do not contradict each other.

Of course they don't contradict each other, that's because, neither one is a true concept, they both only reside in the mind of man, with the desire for them to be a reality.

Setting aside predestination for now --- you don't believe in free will? Where are you coming from? If you are arguing that the will of the creature can't be "completely free" - I'll agree with you. But we are talking about free will in the more generally considered sense, are we not?

The Election only pertained to those Jews of the time of Christ, not Gentiles.

Where do you find that?

You sound as though you have this belief down pat, but are you able to back up the statement with Scripture

Sure - but it's so woven through the scriptures that I hardly know where to start.

God's omniscience concerning all that will occur if and when He Himself chooses to act in the almost innumerable way's He has acted in history OK with you?

...... which says the same as you do?

The same words? No.

Again, all your doing is making unverifiable statements as though they were truth.

IMO - they're "verifiable" by anyone who understands total omniscience and the fact that we make choices.

Of course - you seem to have said that you don't believe that free will is a biblical doctrine. You'll have to explain where you are coming from on that one.

Finally, that question is what needs to be answered by the OP

When it is we can speak more directly to the OP.

Sorry but only one of these beliefs is actually spoken of in Scripture, the other is an assumption concerning Predestination unto Salvation.

All things that happen in God's creation are predestined to occur. The reception of the gospel message by any particular individual is but one of them.

 

[1213]

Where does our free will end and our preordained destiny begin?

I have understood that righteous people are preordained to eternal life. But person’s righteousness depends on his free will, what he chooses and wants by his free will. That is why I think there is no contradiction.

 

[ilovejcsog]

It would really be of great benefit if, when you are replying to someone that you used their post to do it with, rather than just making an open post to the entire thread, where nobody knows who your talking to.....Thanks

You have never addressed any post you have made to this thread, especially the last three in the last 45 Min. #27, #29, #32

You obviously didn't have a problem knowing who I was posting to as here you are.
I don't feel the need to refute every post that is posted as you do. I read them and take what I can from them. A forum doesn't require that you answer every post or any post for that matter.

 

[ilovejcsog]

Can you show me some scripture that indicates that any of my future is "preordained"?
God has a plan for us, that is for sure... but we have total free will in what we do.

I may pray for guidance in accepting a new job, buying a car, what house to purchase or even when to move... but I make the choice... in the end.

I am always searching to do what is right and what God would be pleased with me doing.... but.. I don't agree with some "preordained" path.

So, if you had some scripture that indicates this, I would surely appreciate it.

I don't have the answers that is why I asked the questions.
Post 35 and 36 seem very informative to me
Thank you for your interest.
Blessings