• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.

Featured Freewill and destiny

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by ilovejcsog, Jul 19, 2019.

  1. ilovejcsog

    ilovejcsog The way....

    +681
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Single
    Where does our free will end and our preordained destiny begin? It seems they contradict each other. Or at the very least our freewill is limited.
     
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,782
    Canada
    Non-Denom
    Private
    We follow God and become engulfed in His will over time. He goes before us in all things. We are IN Him.
     
  3. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

    +6,712
    New Zealand
    Pentecostal
    Married
    It is a mystery. The Scripture says that a person may plan their way, but the Lord guides their steps.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
    • Like Like x 1
    • List
  4. devin553344

    devin553344 Enlighten our lives dear Lord

    +1,549
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Republican
    Free will ends and preordained destiny is in things like being born with down syndrome or some other illness. Cancer may also be caused, as well as natural disasters. None of these things are within our will to choose as far as I know.

    You don't get to choose your parents and they don't get to choose who they get as children.

    But as far as most things in life, we are free to choose. And we must accept free will and accept responsibility for our actions.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  5. nonaeroterraqueous

    nonaeroterraqueous Nonexistent Member

    +1,513
    United States
    Protestant
    Married
    Free will, in the sense that we freely choose what we will do, coexists with destiny everywhere and at all times. Paradoxical as it is, it does not exist in spite of destiny, but it exists because of destiny.

    Free will, in the sense that it is free from destiny, is the product of an imagination that wants to be free from God.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  6. ilovejcsog

    ilovejcsog The way....

    +681
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Single
    I should have said predestined.
    So it sounds like everyone is predestined until their not. As in they make the choice not to be Gods.
    It always concerns me for those that are not predestined, what choice do they have. So I would rather think that we all are predestined and then given the choice to not be.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
    • List
  7. Yennora

    Yennora Buy the truth and sell it not. Pro 23:23

    426
    +402
    Australia
    Non-Denom
    Single
    I believe that's exactly how it is. Romans 2:13-16 is the evidence that every single human on earth, Christian or not, will have to choose between good and evil in their lives. And based on the choices they make, the results will be.

    Intentions rule it all out. Someone who acted with good intentions throughout their lives are good even if they never were Christians. And? The good inherits the good and the evil inherits the evil. It is the core of free will. People choose where they want to belong.

    It also boils down to the idea that God didn't tailor it that way. God didn't create good and evil and told us "You have to choose between those 2". It seems that good and evil are eternal attributes that always existed. That is why the tree of knowledge of good and evil existed perhaps. So it is not a game of choice. It is a painful reality and a powerful cooperation between God and humans.

    By choosing the good variant, we are choosing God. It is written that God is good. Indeed, goodness itself.

    Those are my thoughts so far. I'm not sure if I'm correct or not. I struggle with similar dilemmas too about God; Especially the dilemma of "Why did God create it all if he knew it all". But I believe that there are answers that are beyond our perception, and I believe we will know those answers when it all ends.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2019
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
    • List
  8. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

    +6,712
    New Zealand
    Pentecostal
    Married
    When we are converted to Christ (genuinely converted and not just having some form of religion), we have the free will to obey the commands of Christ, to love and fellowship with Him, and to live a holy life out of gratitude for what He has done for us on the cross.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
    • List
  9. Anto9us

    Anto9us Admitted Homoousian Supporter

    +1,957
    United States
    Methodist
    Private
    US-Others
    Our free will does NOT end, and our preordained destiny is rooted in God's FOREKNOWLEDGE of what our free wills will choose.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
    • List
  10. ICONO'CLAST

    ICONO'CLAST Well-Known Member

    +396
    Calvinist
    Married
    US-Others
    That is an unbiblical understanding of Foreknowledge
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • List
  11. Anto9us

    Anto9us Admitted Homoousian Supporter

    +1,957
    United States
    Methodist
    Private
    US-Others
    1Peter 1:2

    You have an OPINION that my opinion is unbiblical, doesn't't make you right.
     
  12. Carl Emerson

    Carl Emerson Well-Known Member

    +1,041
    New Zealand
    Christian
    Married
    Being really born again means surrendering totally to God's will, and giving Him total rights over us. We relinquish our free will to Him and choose rather to walk in His best for us.

    Many believers are afraid of this and so miss out on the blessings of the kingdom.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • List
  13. Anto9us

    Anto9us Admitted Homoousian Supporter

    +1,957
    United States
    Methodist
    Private
    US-Others
    So you, Carl, have special insight into the FEARS of "many believers"?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
    • List
  14. Carl Emerson

    Carl Emerson Well-Known Member

    +1,041
    New Zealand
    Christian
    Married
    I have come across this often - yes.

    It doesn't take any 'special insight' just a few simple questions do the trick.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
    • List
  15. JIMINZ

    JIMINZ Well-Known Member

    +1,451
    United States
    Charismatic
    Married
    Yes, it does.
     
  16. JIMINZ

    JIMINZ Well-Known Member

    +1,451
    United States
    Charismatic
    Married
    Starting from the end.

    WE, do not now nor have we ever had a Preordained Destiny, isn't that like having a Destiny, Destiny or a Destiny which has already been Preordained?

    Having a Destiny or even a Preordained Destine is irrelevant because, we have
    never had Free Will either.
     
  17. JIMINZ

    JIMINZ Well-Known Member

    +1,451
    United States
    Charismatic
    Married
    Someone might be able to make a pretty good case for Adam and Eve having Free Will because, they were made in the Image and Likeness of God.

    Then we come to the demonstration of that Free Will by Adam and Eve, in expressing their Free Will and eating from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil they lost that Free Will through their FALL, both for themselves and for every preceding generation of Human beings on the Face of the earth.

    The question arises then, how can you say we don't have a Free Will when everyone has the ability to make choices?

    You are confusing Free Will with the God Given DOMINION which He gave to Adam (Mankind) for him to be able to Order his life, to make choices as to what he would do, weather he would plant beans or watermelon, build a house or live in a cave, and to in general RULE over the Creation God gave him.

    Even in all of this man does not have Free Will, sure he has the ability to chose his sock color today, but he does not have the ability to NOT SIN, or even TURN FROM HIS SIN, why man can't even turn to God on his own when he wants to.

    John 6:44
    No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

    Man cannot be Reconciled to God because of his Free Will, but only by Jesus.

    Luke 10:22
    All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.

    Therefore, what mankind calls Free Will, technically only existed before the Fall, it was the ability to chose to eat from the Tree which God said don't eat from.

    They chose to exercise that Free Will and forfeited it by the using of it, sort of a catch 22 "if you use it you lose it, you can only retain it by not using it"

    Mankind however does possess the freedom to choose and that only within the parameters of his God Ordained DOMINION.

    To break it down into it's most basic form, man cannot cease from sin.

    Rom. 3:23
    For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

    Rom. 5:12
    Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

    Only through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ is man set free from sin.

    1Pe 4:12
    1) Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
    2) That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

    Eph 2:8-10
    8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.
    10) For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

    No Free Will even after Salvation, we become the Servants (Slaves) of God,
    no Slave has had Free Will at any time, and we were Slaves of Sin.

    Rom. 6:17
    But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

    Rom. 6;20
    For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.

    Rom. 6:18
    Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

    Rom. 6:2
    God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2019
  18. Kareen Daley

    Kareen Daley Peace

    53
    +34
    United Kingdom
    Christian Seeker
    Married
    Hi All
    So in regards to this
    John 6:44
    No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

    Where do all the people who want to be part I'd the fellow ship go if he asks all to come.

    If God is for all of us abd you desire, want to love him beyond no other What happens to you as we are constantly enduring in the faith and love we have over time become. Where do they go. His us the only true religion.

    New to reading and struggling but I know he made created all and is the one true God. I know Jesus was real and came to fulfill the word and prophecy.

    I know this without any in depth reading.

    I am a sinner who has confessed my sins and I truly believe my journey is the journey I am to travel for my soul is rebellious and needs and wants the life if the Father

    There is nothing here without him, so as stated where do all those go who need and want him his guidance.

    Did he not come for us all.
     
  19. Carl Emerson

    Carl Emerson Well-Known Member

    +1,041
    New Zealand
    Christian
    Married
    Your very concern is a gift from Him and is evidence of Him drawing you...

    Work out your own salvation... and leave the issue of the salvation of others up to Him as He is a just judge and never makes mistakes.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • List
  20. ICONO'CLAST

    ICONO'CLAST Well-Known Member

    +396
    Calvinist
    Married
    US-Others
    I can back up my opinion with the scripture.
    Would you accept it, if you see it clearly laid out before you?
    Or are you going to go with an unbiblical view contrary to scripture?
     
Loading...