Freedom and sin

[mindlight]

Many of the prophetic actions of the Christian church in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries had to do with challenging the social injustices of poverty, oppression, gender discrimination, racial discrimination etc. They mirrored the call for social justice of the prophet Amos.

Liberalism since the sixties has extended that call for progress and freedom to things like abortion rights, gay rights , the legalisation of witchcraft and a multicultural approach to false religions.

So has liberalism gone bad. Is it no longer a prophetic social justice movement but rather a regression from faith inspired initiatives. Is Liberal freedom something quite different from true freedom. Are the sins being advocated by Liberals today e.g. Gay Marriage, abortion etc actually eroding the capacity of our culture to be free. Is political correctness starting to stamp on free speech. Are universities dominated by liberal culture now no longer places where a truly free discussion of ideas can occur without offending "snowflakes" deceived by worldliness as to what is right and what it wrong.

If freedom is used to sin does it go bad?

 

[Ahermit]

The truth sets you free.
Those who are true have no issues or agenda for sin.

To sin, at that moment of sin, one is neither true or free.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Many of the prophetic actions of the Christian church in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries had to do with challenging the social injustices of poverty, oppression, gender discrimination, racial discrimination etc. They mirrored the call for social justice of the prophet Amos.

Liberalism since the sixties has extended that call for progress and freedom to things like abortion rights, gay rights , the legalisation of witchcraft and a multicultural approach to false religions.

So has liberalism gone bad. Is it no longer a prophetic social justice movement but rather a regression from faith inspired initiatives. Is Liberal freedom something quite different from true freedom. Are the sins being advocated by Liberals today e.g. Gay Marriage, abortion etc actually eroding the capacity of our culture to be free. Is political correctness starting to stamp on free speech. Are universities dominated by liberal culture now no longer places where a truly free discussion of ideas can occur without offending "snowflakes" deceived by worldliness as to what is right and what it wrong.

If freedom is used to sin does it go bad?

YES...

 

[InterestedAtheist]

Liberalism since the sixties has extended that call for progress and freedom to things like abortion rights, gay rights , the legalisation of witchcraft and a multicultural approach to false religions.

Hmmm. So the call for progress and freedom has been extended to protecting women's rights and preventing women from dying in childbirth, to letting gay people live in safety and peace, rather than being terrorised and threatened by civilians and the law, and allowing people to practice whatever religion they wish in peace.

 

[InterestedAtheist]

If freedom is used to sin does it go bad?

"I disagree with everything you say, but will defend to the death your right to say it."
Voltaire.

 

[com7fy8]

Are the sins being advocated by Liberals today e.g. Gay Marriage, abortion etc actually eroding the capacity of our culture to be free.

There was a time when ones claimed America's culture was religious, or Christian. But if what they were doing really worked, it would have increased, not gone away; God gives increase in whatever He is doing. Outward church practice can also be a sin which degrades a culture, and helps keep people and couples and families weak, so they and their children can then give in to sins . . . not only the public list being attacked by evangelical political groups.

Arguing and complaining can abuse children and ruin marital relating > Philippians 2:13-16.

Fear and worry are anti-love > 1 John 4:18, but can be accepted by church culture people.

And children where these sins fester can grow up weak and not knowing how to love, so then in their desperation to feel good they can go to various things which do not make them strong in love's character.

This includes smoking and other substance abuse, in an attempt to feel good and satisfied, but without submitting to God for character correction and how God has us become strong and able to love any and all people as ourselves. Copy-cat church culture has not produced this, and children have become wise to this so now we see other culture developing.

If you don't like the product, deal with the cause.

 

[mindlight]

Hmmm. So the call for progress and freedom has been extended to protecting women's rights and preventing women from dying in childbirth, to letting gay people live in safety and peace, rather than being terrorised and threatened by civilians and the law, and allowing people to practice whatever religion they wish in peace.

This needs unpackaging to be debunked since you have dumped a whole load of myths together as if they were connected.

The most significant declines in infant mortality occurred in the period 1900 - 1970 and were entirely due to improvements in health care, sanitation, diet and living conditions. Since 1967 (UK) and 1970s (USA) mortality rates have also been helped to drop even further by killing problem children before they are born and also by additional health care improvements. But the main cause of the drop has nothing to do with abortion or the widespread usage of contraception.

Similarly the decrease in the numbers of women dying in birth or pregnancy is mainly due to better health care.

Feminism won the vote and basic employment rights well before the sixties. What feminism has mainly done since the sixties is break up marriages, ensure that almost half of children are now illegitimate and completely destabilise the foundations of society. This is now eroding the mental health of a great many people born in broken homes, impoverishing a great many and has caused wounds that continue to fester in the relationships of the children born to broken homes also. It has eroded freedoms because single persons households do not have the buying power and choices of traditional families and because it has reduced the capacity of individuals to perform in the real world.

Actually regarding protection of individuals rights to property, employment (with some exceptions) and the basic protection of the rule of law being gay should be an irrelevance as should being of another religion. Also civil unions of various sorts are not an issue. However the state does more than that today - changing the definition of marriage for example to suggest gay relationships are equivalent to heterosexual ones and persecuting those who will not affirm gay lifestyles. There are examples of academic dismissals, dismissal of CEOs that gave to Gay help charities, the closures of charities that will not submit to gay adoption rules and ruined businesses as a result.

Freedom of religion in the American context was mainly established to ensure that the Christian pluralism of immigrants to the USA did not result in the same level of warfare and conflict as it had in Europe. It had nothing to do with accepting false religions as equally valid choices. A person is diminished and their freedoms are eroded when they choose to subscribe to a false religion like Islam for instance. Indeed Islams support for Democratic freedoms and for the rights of women is virtually zero in truly Muslim states. Also these same Muslim states generally underperform economically without the support of oil again diminishing freedoms. Jews and Christians are the most successful at building economies and the freedom and opportunities that go with that.

 

[mindlight]

"I disagree with everything you say, but will defend to the death your right to say it."
Voltaire.

At the time this atheist was probably more worried about being put to death for his own lack of beliefs. But it becoming the case it is career suicide to argue a Christian point of view in some goverment departments and academic institutions. The freedoms that did indeed allow a flourishing of thought and innovation are being eroded by the triumph of atheistic thinkers in universities and a new totalitarianism of intolerance for conservative Christian thought.

 

[mindlight]

There was a time when ones claimed America's culture was religious, or Christian. But if what they were doing really worked, it would have increased, not gone away; God gives increase in whatever He is doing. Outward church practice can also be a sin which degrades a culture, and helps keep people and couples and families weak, so they and their children can then give in to sins . . . not only the public list being attacked by evangelical political groups.

Arguing and complaining can abuse children and ruin marital relating > Philippians 2:13-16.

Fear and worry are anti-love > 1 John 4:18, but can be accepted by church culture people.

And children where these sins fester can grow up weak and not knowing how to love, so then in their desperation to feel good they can go to various things which do not make them strong in love's character.

This includes smoking and other substance abuse, in an attempt to feel good and satisfied, but without submitting to God for character correction and how God has us become strong and able to love any and all people as ourselves. Copy-cat church culture has not produced this, and children have become wise to this so now we see other culture developing.

If you don't like the product, deal with the cause.

Yes parents have failed to hand on the substance of good Christian teaching to children who as a result are ill equipped to deal with standard pressures and pains. Both by way of example and by way of neglect.

 

[InterestedAtheist]

At the time this atheist was probably more worried about being put to death for his own lack of beliefs. But it becoming the case it is career suicide to argue a Christian point of view in some goverment departments and academic institutions. The freedoms that did indeed allow a flourishing of thought and innovation are being eroded by the triumph of atheistic thinkers in universities and a new totalitarianism of intolerance for conservative Christian thought.

God Is Not Dead wasn't actually real, you know. People are quite free to be Christians if they wish in academia.

 

[cloudyday2]

Many of the prophetic actions of the Christian church in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries had to do with challenging the social injustices of poverty, oppression, gender discrimination, racial discrimination etc. They mirrored the call for social justice of the prophet Amos.

I see a problem in crediting these actions to the church. In the past almost every Westerner - particularly political leaders - at least pretended to be a Christian. I imagine we can find evidence of Christians on both sides of all those actions for that reason.

Liberalism since the sixties has extended that call for progress and freedom to things like abortion rights, gay rights , the legalisation of witchcraft and a multicultural approach to false religions.

So has liberalism gone bad. Is it no longer a prophetic social justice movement but rather a regression from faith inspired initiatives. Is Liberal freedom something quite different from true freedom. Are the sins being advocated by Liberals today e.g. Gay Marriage, abortion etc actually eroding the capacity of our culture to be free. Is political correctness starting to stamp on free speech. Are universities dominated by liberal culture now no longer places where a truly free discussion of ideas can occur without offending "snowflakes" deceived by worldliness as to what is right and what it wrong.

If freedom is used to sin does it go bad?

I don't see a problem except when speech is inhibited.

 

[FireDragon76]

Hmmm. So the call for progress and freedom has been extended to protecting women's rights and preventing women from dying in childbirth, to letting gay people live in safety and peace, rather than being terrorised and threatened by civilians and the law, and allowing people to practice whatever religion they wish in peace.

I guess we can be forgiven for not understanding where the horror is suppossed to be in all those events?

 

[mindlight]

I guess we can be forgiven for not understanding where the horror is suppossed to be in all those events?

You think it is not a problem that divorce rates have risen 100-200% since the sixties while marriage rates have collapsed. That now almost half of all children are born out of wedlock. That gay activists have closed down Catholic adoption agencies, that millions of extra children have been aborted because of legislation passed then, that false religions are growing strongly in Western countries and the numbers of witches is also rising!!!!????

 

[FireDragon76]

You think it is not a problem that divorce rates have risen 100-200% since the sixties while marriage rates have collapsed. That now almost half of all children are born out of wedlock.

Not really. It's probably not ideal but it's better than people staying together and being incompatible.

That gay activists have closed down Catholic adoption agencies, that millions of extra children have been aborted because of legislation passed then, that false religions are growing strongly in Western countries and the numbers of witches is also rising!!!!????

I have alot of friends that are gay and consider contempt for gay people to be abhorent, so no, it doesn't bother me at all.

I support religious pluralism and do not consider witches to be bad. I myself study the teachings of Thich Nhat Hanh and have benefited from practicing meditation.