Free wont

SeventyOne

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Hi brothers and sisters,
You know how God has given us free will, is there such a thing as 'free wont' as well? Like the opposite.

I don't even know what free won't would even look like unless you are talking about fate or coercion.
 
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John Hyperspace

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The belief in free will is a joke that the universe has played on us.

It seems to be an illusion that many believe; but then, this illusory belief would be predetermined and necessary for the time being. We couldn't have the concept of "pride" without the belief in the illusion of free will, and couldn't subsequently learn the lesson that pride teaches.
 
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Yahchristian

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Hi brothers and sisters,
You know how God has given us free will, is there such a thing as 'free wont' as well? Like the opposite.

Those who would believe in "free will" would also believe in "free won't".

Article IV of the Arminian Articles of the Remonstrants could be titled "Resistible Grace" (in contrast to Calvinism's "Irresistible Grace") and says...

That this grace of God is the beginning, the progress and the end of all good; so that even the regenerate man can neither think, will nor effect any good, nor withstand any temptation to evil, without grace precedent (or prevenient), awakening, following and co-operating. So that all good deeds and all movements towards good that can be conceived in thought must be ascribed to the grace of God in Christ. But with respect to the mode of operation, grace is not irresistible; for it is written of many that they resisted the Holy Spirit.

Whereas, I believe God gave me enough grace such that I would be saved. When I resisted, he simply gave me more grace to the point that I could no longer resist. "But by the grace of God I am what I am." (1 Corinthians 15:10)
 
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Goodbook

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Oh i forgot the presys had actually a name for it and the arminians concluded from the bible something else . Resistable grace?! Well sure there are cases in the bible where people resisted the holy spirit. They were Pharisees.

I would say free wont is when someone refuses the gospel. Like they just dont obey the Lord or do what he says. They could..but they dont.I mean it isnt that hard.

Trust and obey, its the only way, to be happy in Jesus just trust and obey...
 
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Goodbook

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Lol I can see people have a real difficulty with understanding that they CAN say yes or no. To agree or disagree, to say I will or I wont.

It does make me think some christians only do what someone else wants them to do because...someone else is doing it. Maybe if they thought about it, they might see well I dont actually HAVE to, I have a mind of my own!

I mean Jesus basically told satan to get lost and he wasnt going to do all the stuff satan tried to get him to do. FREE WONT. Not that he couldnt, he actually could have, but he didnt. Jesus chose to obey His Father, it wasnt like Jesus was mindless as well and was just this robot or zombie who had no choice about what to do. He wasnt programmed in a sense that a computer is and can only run to specifications. Jesus was tempted in everyway, like us. But the good thing is He always did what His Father said to do, simply out of love. Not because he couldnt tthink for himself.
 
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Yahchristian

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Oh i forgot the presys had actually a name for it and the arminians concluded from the bible something else . Resistable grace?! Well sure there are cases in the bible where people resisted the holy spirit. They were Pharisees.

I would say free wont is when someone refuses the gospel. Like they just dont obey the Lord or do what he says. They could..but they dont.I mean it isnt that hard.

Trust and obey, its the only way, to be happy in Jesus just trust and obey...

I think the difference between the two main views on this is based on what you think "grace" refers to in this verse...

1 Corinthians 15:10... But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

If you think "grace" in that verse only refers to Calvary, then you would tend to say grace is "resistible".

If you think "grace" in that verse refers to all your circumstances including Calvary, then you would tend to say grace is "irresistible".

Personally, I can see many circumstances in my own life that are part of the grace of God that led me to accept him, in addition to the grace of Jesus' sacrifice for my sins.

In other words, I believe God gave me enough grace such that I would be saved. When I resisted, he simply gave me more grace to the point that I could no longer resist. "But by the grace of God I am what I am."
 
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zippy2006

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Hi brothers and sisters,
You know how God has given us free will, is there such a thing as 'free wont' as well? Like the opposite.

Free will. Free-adjective will-noun. "Will" in "Free will" refers to the human faculty of the will. It is a noun.

You seem to be under the impression that "will" in "Free will" refers to the verb expressing the future tense, as in, "I will go to the park tomorrow." That is false. "Free will" refers not to the verb, but to the noun. You have tried to create the opposite, "Free won't," as in, "I won't go to the park tomorrow." But since "Free will" refers to the noun and not the verb, "Free won't" makes absolutely no sense. It is based on a confusion about the meaning of free will.

Finally, free will in the common sense means the ability to do or not do something. To reject some possible option is thus a function of free will, not so-called "free won't." Therefore the opposite of free will is not "free won't," but the doctrine of determinism or fatalism.

...beyond all that, "wont" and "won't" are two different words. Apparently you mean "won't." This is easily the most confusing thread I have ever seen. :)
 
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Goodbook

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I think the difference between the two main views on this is based on what you think "grace" refers to in this verse...

1 Corinthians 15:10... But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

If you think "grace" in that verse only refers to Calvary, then you would tend to say grace is "resistible".

If you think "grace" in that verse refers to all your circumstances including Calvary, then you would tend to say grace is "irresistible".

Personally, I can see many circumstances in my own life that are part of the grace of God that led me to accept him, in addition to the grace of Jesus' sacrifice for my sins.

In other words, I believe God gave me enough grace such that I would be saved. When I resisted, he simply gave me more grace to the point that I could no longer resist. "But by the grace of God I am what I am."
Ok but doesnt grace ever run out..like Jesus time was short on earth. And ours is too if we dont accept him. There such a thing as grace period but if you die before it you cant do anything about it.

Or is it..Jesus comes for every one of us and offers grace right up to our last breath...but surely there are people who resist Him. Because the pHarissees did! Well except for Paul. He was converted. But then even after anaias and saphirra dropped dead cos they lied to the holy spirit.
 
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Goodbook

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I think the difference between the two main views on this is based on what you think "grace" refers to in this verse...

1 Corinthians 15:10... But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

If you think "grace" in that verse only refers to Calvary, then you would tend to say grace is "resistible".

If you think "grace" in that verse refers to all your circumstances including Calvary, then you would tend to say grace is "irresistible".

Personally, I can see many circumstances in my own life that are part of the grace of God that led me to accept him, in addition to the grace of Jesus' sacrifice for my sins.

In other words, I believe God gave me enough grace such that I would be saved. When I resisted, he simply gave me more grace to the point that I could no longer resist. "But by the grace of God I am what I am."
Hmm i do think that God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble. It was ONLY when Paul humbled himself more grace was given to him, wasnt it? He actually repented and believed.
 
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Goodbook

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God who gives His grace can actually resist from giving it to people who are proud...is that ehat it means by resistable grace.

Its not the recipient..its God after all He is the giver and can see whether people are ready to receive. God isnt into giving to anybody who doesnt believe. He can call them but he doesnt choose them until they humble themselves and repent. Many are called but few are chosen...

Are you seeing it from Gods view with His eyes or just your own limited view of man?
 
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Goodbook

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I was thinking of how jesus chose the donkey who had never been ridden before to make his journey into jerusalem. Perhaps he could see that this donkey was humble i mean he could have chosen a horse that was like a thoroughbred and got there quicker.
 
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Yahchristian

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Hmm i do think that God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble. It was ONLY when Paul humbled himself more grace was given to him, wasnt it? He actually repented and believed.


I am not sure what you are referring to. Here is what Paul was doing before God gave him "more grace"...

Acts 9:1-2... And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest, And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.


This was some of the "more grace" that God gave Paul that he did not give everyone...

Acts 9:3-5... And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven: And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.


Paul must have been a hard sell. Jesus had to appear to him in person in order for Paul to believe. Would others believe if God gave them the same grace (a physical encounter with Jesus)? I believe so.

In my personal life, I was given "more grace" than other babies in the hospital because although I was born in a third world country with few Christians, God gave me the grace to be born to Christian missionaries. Might the others have believed if God gave them the same grace (Christian parents and Christian preachers)? I believe so.

I believe I would not have gotten saved if God had not given me the "more grace" that he did. Whereas Arminians I have talked with will say they would have gotten saved even if they did not receive the "more grace" that God gave them.
 
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Goodbook

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Read further..Paul was blinded for three days before he was baptised..
Though thats true he was very proud and selfrighteous..he fell to the ground when Jesus appeared. but look what Paul said when he met the Lord. What shall I do Lord?
He followed Jesus instructions. Thats humbling himself, repenting and believing. PAul called Jesus Lord.

You can only call Jesus Lord if you humble enough to acknowledge him as Lord. Later Paul went to the temple, prayed and confessed his sin to the Lord that he was persecuting others. God had apponted him to go to the gentiles. Yes that was what God wanted but he gave his grace to enable Paul to do this WHEN Paul humbled himself!!! Thats what we do as christians too, when we humble ourselves and pray we receive more grace.
 
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Goodbook

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If we dont pray, we are not likely to receive much grace. God will still see us but we wont receive much from Him if we dont ask Him what to do etc. im not talking about the moment of salvation here, its our continuing walk with Christ.

See Paul had to have Jesus appear to him..all the other apostles had walked with him and seen him and believed him when he was on earth. And they told others their eyewitness reports when Jesus left. But paul was appointed to the GENTILES. Who had never met nor heard of this Jesus fellow and not even know what a messiah is.
 
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