Free Will, Predeterminism, and Predestination

[seeker2122]

So we know that one of the attributes of God is that he is all-knowing and all-present,
which means that he knows everything past, present, and future.

We're told that we have also been given free will to make our own choices.

However, this would mean that nothing we choose out of our free will would come as a "surprise" to God as if he didn't know that was going to happen. He already knows then what choices we are going to make now and the future.

So this means 1 of 2 things.
Either
A) Everything is already predetermined and predestined by God and he knows all that will happen because he is not limited to time but outside of time which means seeing the past and future is simultaneous for him. There is only one universe/timeline that is going to play out and nothing else that would "surprise" God like a "twist" he didn't see coming.

or

B) God has created an infinite number of timelines/multiverses that exist BASED on every possible choice that every single human being makes in the history of this timeline. In other words, God would still know the outcome of all the infinite other possible timelines based on what choice I make today. So we still have free will to choose which timeline we are going to play out based on the choices I make today, right here, right now. God doesn't actually know which timeline I'm going to play out because it's my free will to choose BUT he does know what the outcome and entire timeline of every possible choice I make. (Follow me on this: So God already knows my entire life and timeline if I choose to disobey him and not live the life He wants for me AND he knows the entire life and timeline if I choose to obey him and follow him wholeheartedly. All the possible outcomes he already knows, but since we have free will, He is allows us to choose which timeline we are actually going to play out and that is the only part He doesn't actually know what I'll choose.

 

[Carl Emerson]

So we know that one of the attributes of God is that he is all-knowing and all-present,
which means that he knows everything past, present, and future.

We're told that we have also been given free will to make our own choices.

However, this would mean that nothing we choose out of our free will would come as a "surprise" to God as if he didn't know that was going to happen. He already knows then what choices we are going to make now and the future.

So this means 1 of 2 things.
Either
A) Everything is already predetermined and predestined by God and he knows all that will happen because he is not limited to time but outside of time which means seeing the past and future is simultaneous for him. There is only one universe/timeline that is going to play out and nothing else that would "surprise" God like a "twist" he didn't see coming.

or

B) God has created an infinite number of timelines/multiverses that exist BASED on every possible choice that every single human being makes in the history of this timeline. In other words, God would still know the outcome of all the infinite other possible timelines based on what choice I make today. So we still have free will to choose which timeline we are going to play out based on the choices I make today, right here, right now. God doesn't actually know which timeline I'm going to play out because it's my free will to choose BUT he does know what the outcome and entire timeline of every possible choice I make. (Follow me on this: So God already knows my entire life and timeline if I choose to disobey him and not live the life He wants for me AND he knows the entire life and timeline if I choose to obey him and follow him wholeheartedly. All the possible outcomes he already knows, but since we have free will, He is allows us to choose which timeline we are actually going to play out and that is the only part He doesn't actually know what I'll choose.

Option 1

 

[seeker2122]

Option 1

Thank you. So option 1 is the problematic one.
Option 2 is one that could be understood.

The problem with option 1 is:
So if everything is already predetermined and predestined, then we don't really have free will.
I was programmed and destined to make the choices that I'm going to make before I was even born.

The issue is this. Maybe God had a plan for me and if I only obeyed him I would have had an amazing life with God full of adventure (hardships/suffering but an adventure!), but since I already know that I won't be able to fully commit 100% soul body and mind, then I will never live up to the life God had planned for me. Therefore he already knows that I'm NOT going down that path of a great life of adventure and faith with Him that he has prepared.

So why would God deny certain things as distractions and hinderances to my faith if he already knows that it won't matter because I was never going to lead a life of 100% obedience and submission to God? Why not just allow me the pleasures then of living my life out with some sort of enjoyment instead of denying me those things because they were "hindrances" to my faith?

If he's keeping certain things from me because he knows it's going to compete with my love for Christ as #1 in my life, then that would indicate things are NOT predetermined and predestined and that he is giving me a chance to make the right choices and follow him 100% hence OPTION 2 as I said.

So this leads me to believe that OPTION 2 must be true. OPTION 1 cannot be true.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

So we know that one of the attributes of God is that he is all-knowing and all-present,
which means that he knows everything past, present, and future.

We're told that we have also been given free will to make our own choices.

However, this would mean that nothing we choose out of our free will would come as a "surprise" to God as if he didn't know that was going to happen. He already knows then what choices we are going to make now and the future.

So this means 1 of 2 things.
Either
A) Everything is already predetermined and predestined by God and he knows all that will happen because he is not limited to time but outside of time which means seeing the past and future is simultaneous for him. There is only one universe/timeline that is going to play out and nothing else that would "surprise" God like a "twist" he didn't see coming.

or

B) God has created an infinite number of timelines/multiverses that exist BASED on every possible choice that every single human being makes in the history of this timeline. In other words, God would still know the outcome of all the infinite other possible timelines based on what choice I make today. So we still have free will to choose which timeline we are going to play out based on the choices I make today, right here, right now. God doesn't actually know which timeline I'm going to play out because it's my free will to choose BUT he does know what the outcome and entire timeline of every possible choice I make. (Follow me on this: So God already knows my entire life and timeline if I choose to disobey him and not live the life He wants for me AND he knows the entire life and timeline if I choose to obey him and follow him wholeheartedly. All the possible outcomes he already knows, but since we have free will, He is allows us to choose which timeline we are actually going to play out and that is the only part He doesn't actually know what I'll choose.

Welcome to CF!
IMHO.....Neither option fits with the character of God. Predestination makes Him evil and we know He did not predestine sin. A multiverse creation is science fiction and leaves no room for God and His solution for mankind, Jesus Christ of Nazareth.

So what is the truth of the matter?
Foreknowledge does not equate to foreordained.

For example, we have foreknowledge. We know if our child touches a flame there will be a consequence and if that child disobeys and touches the flame it is their choice to do so. The parent did not ordain it, the child made the decision eventhough the parent knew ahead of time the end result. This is a very simple example of how God works. He leaves room for choice while knowing the consequence of our choices. This is free will.
Blessings

 

[Brother-Mike]

Seeker2122,

OPTION 1 for me is correct:

1. I understand your above explanation re. OPTION 2, but it's certainly not biblical and instead represents a whole lot of esoteric metaphysics (e.g. timelines and metaverses) that would have been alien to early Christians and, well, everyone else up until very recently when this line of reasoning became in-vogue.
2. We do not have free will.
3. We do have "creaturely will", which is a deeply-felt sense of our own autonomy, but (and you might need to re-tool how your mind understands free will here) we're of course always limited by many factors, all ultimately under God's decree. By the way, this aligns with most secular scientists who feel that ultimately all things are deterministic, there is no free will, yet we have something that very much feels like free will. I'm not adding this point as evidence, but simply to point out that I'm not alone in having to reconcile these two "planes" of freedom - the freedom of the self under the greater freedom/decree of God.
4. Examples of freedom limitations that nobody disputes: you're not free to flap your arms and fly like a bird. You're not free to be in two places physically at once. If I kidnap you and place you in a room with two doors you're free to open either or both doors, but you're not free to open a third door. Many would argue that at a lower level you're impeded and restricted by brain chemistry, behavior patterns, cultural norms, etc.
5. In simple terms, and if nothing else as a starting place for my own reconciliation between these "planes", I believe that God always has the power to reach in and steer your freedom if necessary, and you can't tell when he does. And he doesn't need to all the time, only if you're going off-script (e.g. God's hardening of Pharoah, Acts 4:27-28).
6. Anything other than OPTION 1 limits God's Plan: he'd LIKE to save you, but dang it some humans and their free will keep foiling me. Or you're forced to develop un-biblical contraptions that try to explain the problem away yet still maintain God's Plan, prophecies, etc.

Anyway, my two cents - your milage may vary

 

[seeker2122]

Welcome to CF!
IMHO.....Neither option fits with the character of God. Predestination makes Him evil and we know He did not predestine sin. A multiverse creation is science fiction and leaves no room for God and His solution for mankind, Jesus Christ of Nazareth.

So what is the truth of the matter?
Foreknowledge does not equate to foreordained.

For example, we have foreknowledge. We know if our child touches a flame there will be a consequence and if that child disobeys and touches the flame it is their choice to do so. The parent did not ordain it, the child made the decision eventhough the parent knew ahead of time the end result. This is a very simple example of how God works. He leaves room for choice while knowing the consequence of our choices. This is free will.
Blessings

Thank you for the welcome!
Thank you also for your feedback.
Great point yes, foreknowledge does not equal to foreordained.
God knows exactly what will happen if we choose or not choose to touch the flame. Either choice cannot surprise God.

But what my actual question is is not about knowing what will happen if you touch the flame or not touch flame. It is whether or not God actually knows ahead of time what you will choose. That is the real pickle. This is what I mean by predeterminism and predestination that does God already know what people's choices will be if indeed we have free will (which is our understand that we do).

This is the real mystery. IF God actually knows what we will choose (to touch the flame or not touch the flame) then it's predetermined/preordained. He already knows what our choices will be before we were already born. So that would mean that if we truly have free will, and I'm allowed to choose, then God already knows ahead of time what I chose and there would be no way to make another choice / another timeline / infinite timelines based on the numerous choices we make in our lifetime.

 

[seeker2122]

Thank you for the welcome!
Thank you also for your feedback.
Great point yes, foreknowledge does not equal to foreordained.
God knows exactly what will happen if we choose or not choose to touch the flame. Either choice cannot surprise God.

But what my actual question is is not about knowing what will happen if you touch the flame or not touch flame. It is whether or not God actually knows ahead of time what you will choose. That is the real pickle. This is what I mean by predeterminism and predestination that does God already know what people's choices will be if indeed we have free will (which is our understand that we do).

This is the real mystery. IF God actually knows what we will choose (to touch the flame or not touch the flame) then it's predetermined/preordained. He already knows what our choices will be before we were already born. So that would mean that if we truly have free will, and I'm allowed to choose, then God already knows ahead of time what I chose and there would be no way to make another choice / another timeline / infinite timelines based on the numerous choices we make in our lifetime.

I also wanted to add, it does seem to favor the idea that multiple timelines do exist and it's not science fiction. Which timeline we play out depends on our free will of the choices we make. In my past, I was prophesied over by a prophet. Actually a couple. Both of them (without knowing each other and in different times) seemed to tell me something similar. It was about what my life could be if I obey and follow God and what my life could be if I disobey and not follow his plans for me. The prophecy hinted at two timelines....a) if you heed the prophecy and follow God with full obedience this will be given to you or happen to you....but if you don't, b) then your life could end up like this. So it seems to reveal that our free will of choices does lead to multiple timelines or paths depending on what I choose. But if we are saying God already knows what my choice was going to be all along before I was even formed in the womb, but he didn't predestine me to make that choice, then I made the choice out of my own free will (my burden) but God already knew this was going to be my choice before I made it and I guess he did what he could and now just sits back and observes it all unfold?

 

[John Owen]

So we know that one of the attributes of God is that he is all-knowing and all-present,
which means that he knows everything past, present, and future.

We're told that we have also been given free will to make our own choices.

Two mistakes here in your pre-suppositions.

1. Not everyone believes that God knows everything. Greg Boyd who wrote many books, does not believe or teach that God knows all of the future.

2. Not everyone believes that we have free will. I don't.

 

[seeker2122]

Seeker2122,

OPTION 1 for me is correct:

1. I understand your above explanation re. OPTION 2, but it's certainly not biblical and instead represents a whole lot of esoteric metaphysics (e.g. timelines and metaverses) that would have been alien to early Christians and, well, everyone else up until very recently when this line of reasoning became in-vogue.
2. We do not have free will.
3. We do have "creaturely will", which is a deeply-felt sense of our own autonomy, but (and you might need to re-tool how your mind understands free will here) we're of course always limited by many factors, all ultimately under God's decree. By the way, this aligns with most secular scientists who feel that ultimately all things are deterministic, there is no free will, yet we have something that very much feels like free will. I'm not adding this point as evidence, but simply to point out that I'm not alone in having to reconcile these two "planes" of freedom - the freedom of the self under the greater freedom/decree of God.
4. Examples of freedom limitations that nobody disputes: you're not free to flap your arms and fly like a bird. You're not free to be in two places physically at once. If I kidnap you and place you in a room with two doors you're free to open either or both doors, but you're not free to open a third door. Many would argue that at a lower level you're impeded and restricted by brain chemistry, behavior patterns, cultural norms, etc.
5. In simple terms, and if nothing else as a starting place for my own reconciliation between these "planes", I believe that God always has the power to reach in and steer your freedom if necessary, and you can't tell when he does. And he doesn't need to all the time, only if you're going off-script (e.g. God's hardening of Pharoah, Acts 4:27-28).
6. Anything other than OPTION 1 limits God's Plan: he'd LIKE to save you, but dang it some humans and their free will keep foiling me. Or you're forced to develop un-biblical contraptions that try to explain the problem away yet still maintain God's Plan, prophecies, etc.

Anyway, my two cents - your milage may vary

Thanks for that input! Good stuff!
Yes, I am a bit familiar with Martin Luther's view that when it comes to free will, we are not ultimately free, but only free within our nature. So since we are in a sinful nature (human depravity), we are only free to choose within those limits (which is always death) and that's why Christ came to give us a way to salvation whereas before there never was.
I, do agree, of course, we are not ultimately free like God is. We cannot make something out of nothing like he can. We are only free to choose what is available for us to choose.
The example I like is a shopping mall. I have money in my wallet and I have free will to buy anything I want. But I am not free to buy anything the shopping mall doesn't carry. I am only free to buy whatever is made available in the shopping mall.

So our choice to obey and follow God is now within our ability whereas before it wasn't (at least it was only in the form of General Faith/Revelation, pre-Christ/Gospel era). So do we or do we not ultimately have free will to choose salvation? It seems we do. God provided the ram. The way has been made for us, but we must CHOOSE to accept Christ and the gift of salvation and if we do not choose that option the only other option is death (eternal separation from God).

Does God already know what we are going to choose? Yes. He has to otherwise he would not be God then (he's all knowing, omniscient, omnipresent etc). So that is why I wrestle with this. If God already knew I wasn't going to succeed in following him 100% sold out for Christ, then why even bother to remove "hindrances to my faith" in the first place. If removing the hindrances to my faith wasn't going to make a difference anyways because he knows I chose a life less than what he planned for me, then why even attempt to make the path easier for me by taking away those "hindrances". I would say I would rather just enjoy having some of those "hindrances" anyways since my choice was already known in advance.

 

[John Caldwell]

The problem with option 1 is:
So if everything is already predetermined and predestined, then we don't really have free will.
I was programmed and destined to make the choices that I'm going to make before I was even born.

I think you may need to reconsider your conclusion here.

If God is omniscient then everything is, by necessity, predestined (even contigent events). This does not mean your choices are programed but rather foreknown by God.

You could even say that by the act of Creation God predestined, decreed, or caused all to occur to a specific outcome without nullifying free-will.

 

[seeker2122]

Two mistakes here in your pre-suppositions.

1. Not everyone believes that God knows everything. Greg Boyd who wrote many books, does not believe or teach that God knows all of the future.

2. Not everyone believes that we have free will. I don't.

Actually my presupposition is correct (the first one). It is not based on what people think. It is only based on the truth of God. So regardless of if you or anyone believes or doesn't believe that God knows everything or there is free will, it is irrelevant. The supposition is based on the fact that God IS all knowing and knows the future and everything that will happen, otherwise he isn't God (it is one of the attributes of God Almighty). Or do you think there are things that could actually surprise God and be something he never anticipated or expected?
An example would be King Hezekiah. God told a prophet to tell King Hezekiah that is sick and will surely die of it. But Hezekiah prayed hard and it seems as if though he somehow CHANGED the mind of God? Could it be? After hearing King Hezekiah's prayer, God changed his mind and then told the prophet to tell King Hezekiah, your life will be extended another 15 years! So the question is, did God actually know ahead of time that he would extend King Hezekiah's life by another 15 years before King Hezekiah prayed and even before he was born. Or was God genuinely moved and swayed that he didn't expect such a convincing prayer and he changed his mind and went back on his own word that he Hezekiah was going to die but now he's going to live an extra 15 years? This would mean that God is not immutable (unchanging). So because immutable is one of God's attributes, we know that he wasn't surprised or caught off guard. He already knew King Hezekiah was going to merit an extra 15 years of living even though the timeline seems to have been that he should have died of that sickness.

As for the free will part, you are valid. That is also what I am wrestling with. I realize there are different understandings or levels to "free will" as mentioned earlier. There is a free will of our nature or creaturely will, and there is a free will of God.

Can I ask you, since you don't believe in free will, do you believe then in predestination? God has already predestined who will be saved and who won't? Please feel free to elaborate why you don't believe we have free will. Thank you!

 

[seeker2122]

I think you may need to reconsider your conclusion here.

If God is omniscient then everything is, by necessity, predestined (even contigent events). This does not mean your choices are programed but rather foreknown by God.

You could even say that by the act of Creation God predestined, decreed, or caused all to occur to a specific outcome without nullifying free-will.

Agreed, that God simply knowing all makes it predestined and he doesn't need to nullify free will so that the specific outcome will still occur.

What gets me is that it would seem then that God is functioning more like an observer then. The chain of events of all things that happened and will happen is already completed (in God's view) but to each one of us, we are living beings with free will who have to play it out....an outcome that God already knows before any of us have chosen. So in a sense, if he knows that the path I took was not going to lead me to salvation or the life God originally intended for me, could He not altered that pathway so as to produce a different or better outcome from my "free will" choices that I was going to make? Or is God saying basically in modern day terms that like Dr. Strange, he played out infinite timelines for me and the end result was always going to be the same no matter what (if I got what I wanted or if I didn't and only God's path was offered to me). Thanks!

 

[Maria Billingsley]

It is whether or not God actually knows ahead of time what you will choose.

Yes He does but that still falls into foreknowledge and not foreordained.

 

[BNR32FAN]

So we know that one of the attributes of God is that he is all-knowing and all-present,
which means that he knows everything past, present, and future.

We're told that we have also been given free will to make our own choices.

However, this would mean that nothing we choose out of our free will would come as a "surprise" to God as if he didn't know that was going to happen. He already knows then what choices we are going to make now and the future.

So this means 1 of 2 things.
Either
A) Everything is already predetermined and predestined by God and he knows all that will happen because he is not limited to time but outside of time which means seeing the past and future is simultaneous for him. There is only one universe/timeline that is going to play out and nothing else that would "surprise" God like a "twist" he didn't see coming.

or

B) God has created an infinite number of timelines/multiverses that exist BASED on every possible choice that every single human being makes in the history of this timeline. In other words, God would still know the outcome of all the infinite other possible timelines based on what choice I make today. So we still have free will to choose which timeline we are going to play out based on the choices I make today, right here, right now. God doesn't actually know which timeline I'm going to play out because it's my free will to choose BUT he does know what the outcome and entire timeline of every possible choice I make. (Follow me on this: So God already knows my entire life and timeline if I choose to disobey him and not live the life He wants for me AND he knows the entire life and timeline if I choose to obey him and follow him wholeheartedly. All the possible outcomes he already knows, but since we have free will, He is allows us to choose which timeline we are actually going to play out and that is the only part He doesn't actually know what I'll choose.

Ive often viewed these as two different perspectives of the same situation. The first one is from God’s perspective and the second one is from a human perspective. From God’s perspective everything is fixed because He already knows the outcome but from a human perspective since we don’t know the outcome we can appear to change what would’ve taken place based on the choices we make. For example from my perspective I changed my course by repenting and turning to Christ thus changing my outcome in the end but from God’s perspective He always knew that would happen. Either way God did not predestine it to happen just because He foresaw it because it still took my cooperation with Him in order for it to come to be. The way I see it is God has already foreseen everything unfold but the choices we are making each day are determining what He has already foreseen.

 

[John Caldwell]

Two mistakes here in your pre-suppositions.

1. Not everyone believes that God knows everything. Greg Boyd who wrote many books, does not believe or teach that God knows all of the future.

2. Not everyone believes that we have free will. I don't.

Good point. Also there is an issue with definitions which often causes confusion.

Some (like Boyd) defines omniscience as knowing all that can be known, holding the outcome of continent events are unknowable.

Also, free-will needs to be defined. I believe in free-will, but not libertarian free-will (I believe we freely choose that which we desire, or our will is choosing within our nature). Most Calvinists seem to hold my view of free-will, but define free-will differently.

 

[John Caldwell]

Agreed, that God simply knowing all makes it predestined and he doesn't need to nullify free will so that the specific outcome will still occur.

What gets me is that it would seem then that God is functioning more like an observer then. The chain of events of all things that happened and will happen is already completed (in God's view) but to each one of us, we are living beings with free will who have to play it out....an outcome that God already knows before any of us have chosen. So in a sense, if he knows that the path I took was not going to lead me to salvation or the life God originally intended for me, could He not altered that pathway so as to produce a different or better outcome from my "free will" choices that I was going to make? Or is God saying basically in modern day terms that like Dr. Strange, he played out infinite timelines for me and the end result was always going to be the same no matter what (if I got what I wanted or if I didn't and only God's path was offered to me). Thanks!

I agree that it can make God merely an observer. But it doesn't have to (as God knows His creation and still created).

That said, it isn't the same thing as determination. You make a good point.

 

[Carl Emerson]

The problem with option 1 is:
So if everything is already predetermined and predestined, then we don't really have free will.
I was programmed and destined to make the choices that I'm going to make before I was even born.

Not correct...

Salvation is pre determined but our every action is not.

 

[John Caldwell]

Not correct...

Salvation is pre determined but our every action is not.

I knew you were going to say that.

 

[Mink61]

Agreed, that God simply knowing all makes it predestined and he doesn't need to nullify free will so that the specific outcome will still occur.

What gets me is that it would seem then that God is functioning more like an observer then. The chain of events of all things that happened and will happen is already completed (in God's view) but to each one of us, we are living beings with free will who have to play it out....an outcome that God already knows before any of us have chosen. So in a sense, if he knows that the path I took was not going to lead me to salvation or the life God originally intended for me, could He not altered that pathway so as to produce a different or better outcome from my "free will" choices that I was going to make?

No. If He altered the pathway, it wouldn't be free will. But *we* can alter the pathway ourselves. The whole point of having free will is so *we* can choose, and learn from our choices.

God wants for ALL of His created beings to love Him. He even knew ahead of time that when He created the angels--as long as He gave them free will--that SOME of them would choose to use their free will to rebel against God. Same with human beings.

The only way one can truly love is to have a choice...

...not to.

Or is God saying basically in modern day terms that like Dr. Strange, he played out infinite timelines for me and the end result was always going to be the same no matter what (if I got what I wanted or if I didn't and only God's path was offered to me). Thanks!

Never saw Dr. Strange!

 

[TedT]

Delving deeper is necessary:

So we know that one of the attributes of God is that he is all-knowing and all-present,
which means that he knows everything past, present, and future.

IF GOD knew everything then HE knew before HE created them who would end in hell. Since HE has repeatedly told us HE does not want anyone to die in hell and takes no pleasure in their deaths (HE does everything for HIS pleasure) then why would HE create those HE knew would end in hell? It is an absurd blasphemy, contradicting the scriptures...

GOD is Love, holy, righteous and Just before all else. All doctrine must conform to HIS nature. All doctrine that impugnes HIS nature is a blasphemy.

This definition of HIS omniscience that implies that HE knew before their creation who would end in hell BUT CREATED THEM ANYWAY is not loving; it is not righteous; it is not just - no matter how many books of theo-babble have been written to try to make it so...therefore it is blasphemy.

GOD does all things for HIS pleasure but HE takes NO PLEASURE in the death of the wicked - therefore HE did not create them to go to hell! Ezekiel 33:11 Say to them, 'As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked...

Also, HE wants all people to be saved, 1 Timothy 2:4...who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. so whether HE will get this want fulfilled or not, HE obviously did NOT choose to create anyone without hope for salvation, ie, destined to hell at creation!

So what do I offer in its place? Acts 15:18 KJV Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world. To be precise, HE knows all HIS works, usually accepted to be referring to all that HE was created by HIS creative decree, which implies that IF HE did not create something by HIS creative decree, HE does NOT KNOW IT.

Also, these things HE knows from, since, the beginning of the world, not BEFORE creation, not since eternity past. Therefore we have good Biblical reason to reject this pagan definition of omniscience.

This biblical definition of what HE knows also implies that If HE did NOT create the results of our free will decisions but let us create those results by our free will according to what we most wanted, THEN HE did not know these results of our free will decisions UNTIL we created them for ourselves and brought them into reality.

In other words, HE did not know everything, but HE did know everything that could be known which did not include our free will decisions.

We're told that we have also been given free will to make our own choices.

We are also told that sinners are enslaved to sin, ie, addicted to evil, which, if we as sinners still have a free will uncoerced by any power at all, makes these words of our Lord to be a meaningless foolishness. They must be true and their impact on our free will must be identified and accepted.

Yet, to become holy, to be guilty for our crimes and to be able to enter a perfect heavenly marriage with HIM makes our free will to be an absolute necessity, a free will we have not had since our conception as sinners!

Of course we can continue in the time honoured tradition of juggling these concepts and accepting the truth of the one in our hand but ignoring the contradictions of that truth to the ones in the air!!

A) Everything is already predetermined and predestined by God and he knows all that will happen

ImCo, the answer is that we had a time pre-election when we made free will decisions about our FATES, ie, to enter HIS family or to be HIS eternal enemies, and then those who also chose to be sinners were given predetermined human LIVES as the best possible way to redeem and sanctify HIS sinful family members, prodigal sons called sheep gone astray, so the postponement of the judgement might end and the judgment take place opening the way for the heavenly marriage.