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Free Will - God's test that all mankind flunks

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by 3 Resurrections, Aug 23, 2021.

  1. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    I rather like that analogy.
    Based on the Genesis account we see two people that literally lost their minds after eating. God even asked Adam, "Who told you that you were naked...?" Who indeed?
     
  2. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    God works in people to will and to do of His good pleasure. Adam was no exception. Why would Christ be the lamb slain from the foundation of the world if Adam's sin was not part of God's decree?
     
  3. Albion

    Albion Factchecker

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    :doh:Adam committing a sin and being by nature "sin-prone" are two different things.
     
  4. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    I wonder what the outcome would have been if Adam had refused the fruit offered him by Eve.
     
  5. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    God created Adam as sinless. But with a nature that would want to sin, making him guilty, upon being given a law. Adam wanted to sin and thereby incurred the guilt. God works in all to do of His good pleasure.
     
  6. FaithWillDo

    FaithWillDo Active Member

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    Dear 3 Resurrections,
    You said:
    Ecclesiastes said that "God hath made man upright", and God pronounced His own creation at the beginning "good" and "very good". No evil created at the beginning. Just a probationary status that was forfeited when the original couple obeyed Satan's suggestion instead of God's command.

    Here is the verse in Ecclesiastes when it is properly translated:

    Ecc 7:29 But I did find this: God created people to be virtuous, but they have each turned to follow their own downward path (NLT).

    God pronounced the creation to be very good and it is for His purpose of creating children in His image who know "good and evil".

    We were created spiritually marred so that we could learn about evil first. Then after this purpose is fulfilled within each person, God will send Christ to us and make us spiritually perfect.

    God uses evil as a tool to accomplish His purposes. When Adam and Eve sinned, it was not God's mistake that it happened.

    Rom 8:20-22 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

    Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

    Nothing happens in this creation that is not caused by God and our salvation is no exception. He made us subject to vanity (sin) without our permission and He will make us righteous without our permission. We are the work of His hands.

    Joe
     
  7. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    I really like this statement and agree. Does this mean you believe in universal salvation? Or, as I prefer to call it, Ultimate Redemption. (UR)
     
  8. bling

    bling Regular Member Supporter

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    So you think God programmed her to respond to satan in this way, without her deciding?
     
  9. 3 Resurrections

    3 Resurrections That's 666 YEARS, folks

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    This is not true. God does not originate evil. We know that God can utilize evil once it materializes, as in "making the wrath of men to praise him", but in Him there is "no darkness at all".

    Even in the case of the cherub in Eden in Ezekiel 28:15 who fell (the anointed cherub who became Satan), this being was originally created "perfect in his ways UNTIL iniquity was found in him". This was a CHANGE that took place in that anointed cherub from his originally-righteous state. Just as a CHANGE happened to the originally-righteous Adam and Eve. They did NOT have any knowledge of evil when they were created, or the act of taking from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil would not have caused a change in their nature and fellowship with the perfect God.

    Didn't the apostle Paul tell his readers that he wanted them "wise concerning good, and simple concerning evil"? (Romans 16:19). It is NOT a desirable thing to have the knowledge of evil. This was true in the beginning in the Garden of Eden, and Paul wanted his readers to reflect that same simplicity about evil as much as possible while still in this world.

    I believe that the spirit of each human sent from God to the womb is originally righteous as it comes from Him. But the very moment that originally righteous spirit is united with the human elements in the second of conception, it becomes corrupted by association, resulting in a child who will inevitably grow to give evidence of having that sin nature. It will only be a matter of time before the first sinful act is performed out of the fallen nature that child possesses. For those who will be the children of God, He chooses the moment at which He sends His Spirit to regenerate that spirit into life again. It can happen even in the womb, as we have evidence in the case of John the Baptist. It can happen with our dying breath, as in the case of the repentant Zealot thief hanging beside Christ.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2021
  10. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    That's a good way to look at it. There is evil, but it's not God, nor his doing.
     
  11. bling

    bling Regular Member Supporter

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    I explained the “objective” in post 4.

    Briefly:

    We are here on earth to become like God Himself in that we have Godly type Love, since God is Love.

    Godly type Love is not instinctive nor just a knee jerk reaction. If it were instinctive, it would be a robotic programmed type “love” which is not a Godly type Love. Also, Godly type Love cannot just be forced on a person since that would be like a shotgun wedding with God holding the shotgun, which would not be “Loving on God’s part and the “love” obtained would not be Godly type Love.

    Godly type Love has to be the result of an autonomous free will choice with likely alternatives (for humans that is the perceived pleasures of sin). The only initial way of obtaining Godly type Love comes automatically with accepting forgiveness of an unbelievable huge debt. Luke 7 Jesus taught us: He that is forgiven much Loves much.
     
  12. bling

    bling Regular Member Supporter

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    Are you saying man does not have an objective for spending time here on earth and it is really just God's objective for some?
     
  13. Mark Quayle

    Mark Quayle Well-Known Member Supporter

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    No
     
  14. bling

    bling Regular Member Supporter

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    Not sure what you are saying here.
    God is Love and perfect pure Love is unselfish.
     
  15. bling

    bling Regular Member Supporter

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    Can you explain?
     
  16. FaithWillDo

    FaithWillDo Active Member

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    Dear Saint Steven,
    Yes, without a doubt I believe Christ is the Savior of the world.

    You and I had a conversation a few months ago. I guess you don't remember me. I remember that you are one of the few people which I have met on the forum that can see the truth of Ultimate Redemption.

    I think back then I tried to show you the scriptures that teach HOW Christ is going to save the world but I don't think you were able to receive them. The pathway to salvation is part of the Great Mystery of Christ and His church (Eph 5:32). It is the most hidden teaching in scripture and at its core is the Early and Latter Rain.

    If you ever have an interest in knowing more, I would be happy to try again.

    Joe
     
  17. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Most perish and go the eternal suffering. But the New Heavens and Earth are the saved world (kosmos) Jesus redeemed.
     
  18. Albion

    Albion Factchecker

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    There's no basis for concluding such a thing. All this does is rework "sin-prone" in order to keep the same concept.
     
  19. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Thanks. I'll send a PM.
     
  20. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    That sounds familiar. Satanists care more for the planet than the people on it.
     
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