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Free Grace Theology - The theology that allows devil worshippers into heaven

Discussion in 'Salvation (Soteriology)' started by guuila, Dec 20, 2013.

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  1. Charis kai Dunamis

    Charis kai Dunamis χάρις καὶ δύναμις

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    Again, here is what it says:

    Mark 1:14 [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]Now after John was arrested, Jesus came into Galilee, proclaiming the gospel of God, and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.”

    So here is where we land.

    You: "Believe in the Gospel, and you should repent but it isn't necessary for entrance into the Kingdom of God."

    Me: “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.”

    Belief and repentance are coupled, not only in this passage, but as a unit. Belief requires a turning from sin, a denouncing of sin, and confession of sin in order to be true belief; otherwise, what are you believing in a salvation from? If you don't see your sin as God sees it at least in some way, then why on earth are you clinging to Christ? What are you needing of from Him and why are you trusting in His death, burial and resurrection? Is it not deliverance from the vile sin that lives in your heart and is so utterly offensive to God that you deserve death? If there is no turning, no change of heart, no REPENTANCE, then there was no belief. They go hand in hand and are inseparable.
     
  2. ananda

    ananda Early Buddhist

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    His biography in wiki doesn't mention that ... ?

    The job of a lexicographer is to catalogue how words are used and understood in context in all available historical documentation, not merely NT texts.
     
  3. Charis kai Dunamis

    Charis kai Dunamis χάρις καὶ δύναμις

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    That's me.
     
  4. ananda

    ananda Early Buddhist

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    BDAG's (3rd ed) gloss on pisteuo (the word commonly translated "believe"):

    "to entrust oneself to an entity in complete confidence, believe (in), trust, w. implication of total commitment to the one who is trusted"

    LSJ's gloss includes: "committed, comply"
     
  5. Charis kai Dunamis

    Charis kai Dunamis χάρις καὶ δύναμις

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    I can add a few more if you gents feel you need it.

    Louw & Nida (Greek Entry)

    E Philosophical (11.96–11.97)

    1 The term ‘General’ in the heading of this subdomain should be understood as referring to classes or members of classes which are not subsumed under any of the following categories.

    4 πιστή may also be regarded as a derivative of πιστεύωc ‘to be a believer’ (31.102), but NT usage in a passage such as Ac 16:1 seems to focus more upon group adherence than upon the actual state of believing. See also 31.103 and footnote 16.

    F Believe To Be True (31.35–31.49)

    31.35 πιστεύωa: to believe something to be true and, hence, worthy of being trusted — ‘to believe, to think to be true, to regard as trustworthy.’5ἀκούω σχίσματα ἐν ὑμῖν ὑπάρχειν, καὶ μέρος τι πιστεύω ‘I have been told that there are opposing groups among you, and this I believe is partly true’ 1Cor 11:18; ἀνθ᾿ ὧν οὐκ ἐπίστευσας τοῖς λόγοις μου ‘but you have not believed my message’ Lk 1:20; ἐάν τις ὑμῖν εἴπῃ, Ἰδοὺ ὧδε ὁ Χριστός, … μὴ πιστεύσητε ‘if anyone says to you, Here is the Christ, … do not believe them’ Mt 24:23; σὺ πιστεύεις ὅτι εἷς ἐστιν ὁ θεός; ‘do you believe that there is only one God?’ Jas 2:19.
    In a number of languages the equivalent of πιστεύωa is simply ‘to think to be true’ or ‘to regard as true,’ but in some languages an idiomatic expression is employed, for example, ‘to think in the heart’ or ‘to think in the liver’ or ‘to hold in the heart.’

    I Trust, Rely (31.82–31.101)

    31.85 πιστεύωb; πίστιςb, εως f: to believe to the extent of complete trust and reliance — ‘to believe in, to have confidence in, to have faith in, to trust, faith, trust.’
    πιστεύωb: ὃς δ᾿ ἂν σκανδαλίσῃ ἕνα τῶν μικρῶν τούτων τῶν πιστευόντων εἰς ἐμέ ‘if anyone should cause one of these little ones to turn away from his faith in me’ Mt 18:6; ἐπίστευσεν δὲ Ἀβραὰμ τῷ θεῷ ‘Abraham trusted in God’ Ro 4:3; ὁ πιστεύων ἐπ᾿ αὐτῷ οὐ μὴ καταισχυνθῇ ‘whoever believes in him will not be disappointed’ 1Pe 2:6.
    πίστιςb: ἔχετε πίστιν θεοῦ ‘you have faith in [p. 377] God’ Mk 11:22; ἤκουσεν αὐτοῦ περὶ τῆς εἰς Χριστὸν Ἰησοῦν πίστεως ‘he listened to him (as he talked) about faith in Christ Jesus’ Ac 24:24; ὁ δὲ δίκαιος ἐκ πίστεως ζήσεται ‘he who is righteous because of his faith shall live’ Ro 1:17; ἀκούσαντες τὴν πίστιν ὑμῶν ἐν Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ ‘we heard about your faith in Christ Jesus’ Col 1:4.
    In rendering πιστεύωb and πίστιςb it would be wrong to select a term which would mean merely ‘reliance’ or ‘dependency’ or even ‘confidence,’ for there should also be a significant measure of ‘belief,’ since real trust, confidence, and reliance can only be placed in someone who is believed to have the qualities attributed to such a person.

    J Be a Believer, Christian Faith15 (31.102–31.107)

    31.102 πιστεύωc; πίστιςd, εως f: to believe in the good news about Jesus Christ and to become a follower — ‘to be a believer, to be a Christian, Christian faith.’
    πιστεύωc: τοῦ δὲ πλήθους τῶν πιστευσάντων ἦν καρδία καὶ ψυχὴ μία ‘the group of those who were believers was one in heart and mind’ Ac 4:32; δύναμις γὰρ θεοῦ ἐστιν εἰς σωτηρίαν παντὶ τῷ πιστεύοντι ‘for it is God’s power to save everyone who is a believer’ Ro 1:16.
    πίστιςd: ἡ πίστις ὑμῶν καταγγέλλεται ἐν ὅλῳ τῷ κόσμῳ ‘the whole world is hearing that you have faith’ Ro 1:8; τῇ γὰρ χάριτί ἐστε σεσῳσμένοι διὰ πίστεως ‘for it is by his grace that you have been saved because you have faith’ Eph 2:8.

    E Entrust To the Care Of (35.47–35.50)

    35.50 πιστεύωd: to entrust something to the care of someone — ‘to entrust to, to put into the care of.’ ὅτι ἐπιστεύθησαν τὰ λόγια τοῦ θεοῦ ‘because they were entrusted with God’s message’ or ‘… with God’s promises’ Ro 3:2. In some languages it may be possible to render this expression in Ro 3:2 as ‘because God gave his message to them to take care of’ or ‘… to keep,’ but one should avoid the implication that the message was simply to be kept by the Jews for themselves.

    Mounce Greek Dictionary (Greek Entry)

    GK G4409 | S G4100 πιστεύω pisteuō
    241x
    pluperfect, πεπιστεύκειν, to believe, give credit to, Mk. 1:15; 16:13; Lk. 24:25; intrans. to believe, have a mental persuasion, Mt. 8:13; 9:28; Jas. 2:19; to believe, be of opinion, Rom. 14:2; in NT πιστεύειν ἐν, εἰς, ἐπί, to believe in or on, Mt. 18:6; 27:42; Jn. 3:15, 16, 18; absol. to believe, be a believer, Acts 2:44; 4:4, 32; 13:48; trans. to intrust, commit to the charge or power of, Lk. 16:11; Jn. 2:24; pass. to be intrusted with, Rom. 3:2; 1 Cor. 9:17 → believe; convince; entrust; trust.

    Greek Strong’s (Greek Entry)

    4100. πιστεύω pisteuo, pist-yoo´-o; from 4102; to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), i.e. credit; by implication, to entrust (especially one’s spiritual well-being to Christ): — believe(-r), commit (to trust), put in trust with.

    UBS Lexicon (Greek Entry)

    πιστεύω believe (in), have faith (in) (with God or Christ as object); believe, believe in; have confidence (in someone or something), entrust (something to another); ὅς μὲν π. φαγεῖν πάντα one man’s faith allows him to eat anything (Ro 14:2)
     
  6. OzSpen

    OzSpen Regular Member

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    In these statements in your OP, you provided not one piece of external evidence to your own assertions to demonstrate that there are people in theological land who are of this Free Grace persuasion.

    Why do you assert, but without evidence?

    Oz
     
  7. guuila

    guuila Guest

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    Red herring.
     
  8. OzSpen

    OzSpen Regular Member

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    If we use John 3:16 as an example. It uses the present tense participle of pisteuw BUT it is followed by the Greek preposition, eis (into). According to Arndt & Gingrich's Greek lexicon pisteuw means
    So trust in Christ is the meaning of pisteuw, but the present tense is critical for understanding because the meaning of the Greek present tense in verbals is continuing action of belief/trust. It is not a once-off (which would have been aorist tense) belief/trust, but it is continuing belief. That's why I find that perseverance of the saints is a more accurate description of this teaching than OSAS.

    In Christ,
    Oz

    Works consulted

    Arndt, W F & Gingrich, F W 1957. A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature.[1] Chicago: The University of Chicago Press (limited edition licensed to Zondervan Publishing House).

    [1] This is ‘a translation and adaptation of Walter Bauer’s Griechisch-Deutsches Wörtbuch zu den Schriften des Neuen Testaments und der übrigen urchristlichen Literatur’ (4th rev & augmented edn 1952) (Arndt & Gingrich 1957:iii).
     
  9. extraordinary

    extraordinary Newbie trainee

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    Grace, oh Grace, where art thou?


    No, I'm not calling my dog.

    WHY did you receive God's free gift of grace-faith (Eph 2:8-9)?
    'Twas the only way to receive eternal life, right?
    (The beginning of the total process of being saved, I mean.)

    So, what would it mean for you ... if you received God's grace in vain?

    2 Corinthians 6:1 "We then, as workers together with Him
    also plead with you not to receive the grace of God in vain."


    IMO, it would mean that somehow you were disqualified from benefiting from His grace!
    IMO, it would mean your salvation process had been cancelled.
    .
     
  10. OzSpen

    OzSpen Regular Member

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    False accusation. You provided not one example from those who promote this Free Grace theology. I'm waiting on your researched examples to demonstrate that others are promoting this FG.

    Your 'red herring' accusation is nothing more than a slogan. It is a false accusation. It was not an accurate response. I asked for you to provide evidence from those who promote this FG view.

    I'm still waiting for your researched evidence.

    Oz
     
  11. Charis kai Dunamis

    Charis kai Dunamis χάρις καὶ δύναμις

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    Check out Charles Ryrie, Oz. It basically started (in the public spotlight...) between him and John MacArthur (Lordship Salvation view) and was mainly between Dispensationalist circles.
     
  12. guuila

    guuila Guest

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    Just following your example buddy.
     
  13. OzSpen

    OzSpen Regular Member

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    That's a false assessment and accusation. So you seem to be into sloganeering, rather than dealing accurately with my post.

    Bye, :wave:
     
  14. guuila

    guuila Guest

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    Take care.
     
  15. OzSpen

    OzSpen Regular Member

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    That's not the issue. When a person starts a thread and fails to give researched examples of what he/she is exposing, I find this to be an inadequate approach to get us to deal with issues.
     
  16. guuila

    guuila Guest

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    There are plenty of other threads you can contribute to.
     
  17. OzSpen

    OzSpen Regular Member

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    You can't tolerate an accurate challenge and correction, can you? So you give me another red herring by changing the topic.

    Are you saying that you don't want to interact with me?
     
  18. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    I think you're stretching things a bit.
     
  19. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    As I said, you answered your own question in your point #2. Didn't you read what you wrote?
     
  20. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    What you brought up. Don't you remember?

    The OP insinuates that unless one continues to believe they lose salvation.
     
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