Free Beaches

[Johnnz]

I reckon there is an extreme sort of puritanism within sectors of American society more so than we have in our Antipodean societies down under. So...

Would you go/have you been to a free beach or been skinny dipping in a mixed gender situation? (beyond age 4 that is!)

John
NZ

 

[Bible_Mum]

I've heard of where they are, but no, I would rather keep my kit on.

 

[Deleteriousnonsense]

When I was ten I went on a canoe trip down the Russian river as a member of the Cub Scouts. We rounded a bend and there on the rocks was a young woman, completely naked, arms outstretched, preparing to dive from a large boulder into the water. She dove, I stared in disbelief. Never had I seen the adult female form in all it's lovely splendor. She turned out to be one of a party of nudists who had staked out the river bend. It took the better part of the afternoon for our den mother to gather all us wayward cubs together. Twenty-plus years down the road, and I remember that dive as vividly as if it had happened yesterday. So beautiful was she.

 

[TheDag]

beyond 4 but not beyond the age where it became my choice

i cant imagine going to one tho

 

[keith99]

I reckon there is an extreme sort of puritanism within sectors of American society more so than we have in our Antipodean societies down under. So...

Would you go/have you been to a free beach or been skinny dipping in a mixed gender situation? (beyond age 4 that is!)

John
NZ

America seems to have the extreemists at both ends. To me skinny dipping is no big deal. But I'll do my body surfing and beach volleyball with enought on to keep sand out of sensitive places. In the back country I won't get a hard tio dry piece of clothing wet just because I want to go for a swim.

 

[theseagullwithoneleg]

just go at night, its easier

 

[tgg]

I reckon there is an extreme sort of puritanism within sectors of American society more so than we have in our Antipodean societies down under. So...

Would you go/have you been to a free beach or been skinny dipping in a mixed gender situation? (beyond age 4 that is!)

John
NZ

Hi John,

Merry Christmas to you and your loved ones.

You know that I do myself, but at the moment I won't be due to the dreadfully inclement weather. It's been raining virtually non-stop for the last week and a half where I live.


-Dario

 

[tgg]

America seems to have the extreemists at both ends. To me skinny dipping is no big deal. But I'll do my body surfing and beach volleyball with enought on to keep sand out of sensitive places. In the back country I won't get a hard tio dry piece of clothing wet just because I want to go for a swim.

Swimming nude is more healthier and sensible than wearing clothes.

Australia, sadly, has its fair share of wowsers and killjoys like council leaders and idiots like Rev. Fred Nile and Hetty Johnson who see nudity as being sexually immoral.

 

[TheDag]

Swimming nude is more healthier and sensible than wearing clothes.

So what is your evidence for this claim?

Australia, sadly, has its fair share of wowsers and killjoys like council leaders and idiots like Rev. Fred Nile and Hetty Johnson who see nudity as being sexually immoral.

We are all shaped by our experiences so I don't think we should be so quick to call people idiots. Perhaps you can tell me what you know of Hetty Johnson and if it is more than I know about her then you can call her an idiot.

Also worthy of note is that it is council leaders who have made nude beaches available. So much for them being killjoys!

 

[andreha]

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[tgg]

I know that many Christians (at least in Australia and America) disagree with the whole premise of naturism/nudism and free beaches, but there is a difference between what I term as 'Churchianity' and 'Bibleianity'. Both practices are different from Christianity.

The way that I see it, many churches have "added to" the word of God which was warned about by John in the book of Revelations by forbidding nudity or calling it a 'sin'. God creates us in his image. Does that therefore make God a 'sinner'?

I think it'd be cool to have Nude Beach Missions where Christian churches send their members to nudist beaches to witness to the patrons there. Many churches are pretty much comfort zones and don't do anything out of the ordinary in order to further God's word.

In America and the UK, there are several Christian Nudist fellowship groups. However, virtually all of their followers are people in their 50's and over and there are hardly any people in their teens, 20's or 30's who are active in them. This is not the case with textile churches which have no problem attracting the young.

I would also like to recommend these websites for any members who are curious to know what the Bible really has to say about social and public nudity:

Fig Leaf Forum: Fellowship, edification and encouragement for Christian nudists and Christian naturists
Christian Naturist Village • Index page
http://www.naturist-christians.org
http://www.savouredfaith.org.uk
Home

At time of writing there are no Christian naturist websites based in Australia.

 

[FreeInChrist88]

I reckon there is an extreme sort of puritanism within sectors of American society more so than we have in our Antipodean societies down under. So...

Would you go/have you been to a free beach or been skinny dipping in a mixed gender situation? (beyond age 4 that is!)

John
NZ

May I answer even though I am an American?

I visited a free / nude beach just this week for the very first time in my life. My wife and I have been on vacation this week. While exploring, we found a secluded nude beach. We were somewhat shocked seeing naked people in an open public setting. My wife felt somewhat voyeuristic and wanted to leave but she told me that if I wanted to try it out, I should go ahead. I declined at first but figured if I didn't try it out I would probably regret it.

So I went for it and I am so glad I did. The water was beautiful and clear and it felt so much better to swim without swim trunks. I only stayed 10 or 15 minutes because my wife was waiting for me. But the experience was so wonderful, that I made plans to come back the next day. My wife did not want to come but she was in full consent of me going back myself.

I came back the next day and spent 4 glorious hours in just my skin at the beach. Most of the people there were men but there were also quite a large number of couples and so the ratio of females was quite high. Before this experience, I had never been nude in the company of any nude women except my wife. But I felt no sexual arousal or lust. In fact, seeing the couples made me wish all the more that my wife could have been there enjoying it all with me.

A couple days later, my wife and I had a great discussion about nudity in general. While she is not comfortable participating, she does not view it as sinful.

The experience was so wonderful, I came back again and spent nearly six hours. Toward the end of this trip it all seemed so natural to be nude with everyone. Female nudity was no longer an issue for me.

After my experiences this week, I am baffled as to why the church in general has such a dim view of wholesome social nudity. No one can make a credible case to claim it is sinful. So in America, I think the aversion to it is cultural or an unfounded fear that it will always lead to lust in all cases. The American church has bought the world's lie that nudity = sex. Too bad people think this way.

 

[TheDag]

So in America, I think the aversion to it is cultural or an unfounded fear that it will always lead to lust in all cases. The American church has bought the world's lie that nudity = sex. Too bad people think this way.

I think your right about it being cultural. Large numbers of puritans left England and moved to the US (before independance) and that has had a strong influence on US culture.

I've never been swimming nude but friends of mine who have tell me it is a great experience and I should try it. I just don't see it happening. Maybe if we had a car.

 

[luchsgud]

No, and I wouldn't.

Using the argument that God created Adam and Eve naked is folly indeed.

First of all, Adam and Eve did not know they were naked - you do.

Secondly, once they realised they were naked they tried to cover themselves.

And thirdly it was God who made the first clothes of skin not man.

Now you put this together with "the law's insitence that you do not uncover each other's nakedness [except for husband and wife], and the madman of the Gaderenes being found "clothed and in his right mind"; I think you'll be hard pressed to hold to this doctrine that nudity is natural.

Nudity is always an expression of shame and humiliation in Scripture, even when Jesus hung on the cross.

I won't be joining the practise anytime. Btw I was born in Africa so I know more about the african culture than you may think.

 

[Johnnz]

the first comment is just silly - of course they were aware of what state they were in.

They covered themselves because of fear (They were afraid) of God.

God's covering of skins prefigured salvation

As husband and wife the story does NOT sanction their nakedness with each other if you take that line about what the story teaches, but rather the opposite - they should not see each other naked! There was no other human there at the time.

But the story is about sin and salvation, not clothing. The use of two different hebrew words for nakedness is Chs 1 & 2 is illustrative of that.

John
NZ

 

[luchsgud]

the first comment is just silly - of course they were aware of what state they were in.

They covered themselves because of fear (They were afraid) of God.

God's covering of skins prefigured salvation

As husband and wife the story does NOT sanction their nakedness with each other if you take that line about what the story teaches, but rather the opposite - they should not see each other naked! There was no other human there at the time.

But the story is about sin and salvation, not clothing. The use of two different hebrew words for nakedness is Chs 1 & 2 is illustrative of that.

John
NZ

I know the story in Genesis very well my friend, you cannot so easily pull the wool over my eyes.

Genesis 3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked, and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves aprons.

They did not make themselves aprons because they were afraid of God but because they were naked, and now knew it. The aprons were made before they became afraid of God. Their fear of God caused them to hide.

Genesis 3:8 And they heard the voice of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God amongst the trees of the garden.
Genesis 3:9 And the Lord God called unto Adam, and said, "Where art thou?
Genesis 3:10 And he [Adam] said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself
Genesis 3:11 And he [God] said, Who told thee thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldst not eat?

Why did Adam say he was afraid? Because he was naked.

I did not say that the story sanctioned nakedness between husband and wife. The law does that.

While it is true that Genesis 2 & 3 [not 1 & 2] appear to use two different words, if you look again and at the etemology of both words you will discover that they are merely derivations of the same word, not different words at all.

The knowledge of nudity came with the eating of the fruit. Prior to that they had no knowledge of it. That is clear from the tale that is told.

 

[Johnnz]

I know the story in Genesis very well my friend, you cannot so easily pull the wool over my eyes.

Genesis 3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked, and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves aprons.

They did not make themselves aprons because they were afraid of God but because they were naked, and now knew it. The aprons were made before they became afraid of God. Their fear of God caused them to hide.

Genesis 3:8 And they heard the voice of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God amongst the trees of the garden.
Genesis 3:9 And the Lord God called unto Adam, and said, "Where art thou?
Genesis 3:10 And he [Adam] said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself
Genesis 3:11 And he [God] said, Who told thee thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldst not eat?

Why did Adam say he was afraid? Because he was naked.

I did not say that the story sanctioned nakedness between husband and wife. The law does that.

While it is true that Genesis 2 & 3 [not 1 & 2] appear to use two different words, if you look again and at the etemology of both words you will discover that they are merely derivations of the same word, not different words at all.

The knowledge of nudity came with the eating of the fruit. Prior to that they had no knowledge of it. That is clear from the tale that is told.

The first mention of naked in Gen 2:25 is in Hebrew arom. It Job 26:6 it refers to hell being naked before God, conveying as in Gen 2:25 the concept of openness, nothing being hidden. Unfallen humanity had an open relationship with both Creator and each other. It may well not be a direct reference at all to being unclothed in that verse, although in a sinless world that would not be shameful. The human body was included in the 'very good'.

In 3:10 eyrom refers more to nudity as such. We must give some weight to the author's deliberate use of two distinct words. Something different was being conveyed.

The couple as a consequence of sin hid from God. The "because we were naked" refers to their fear of exposure to God and their hiding from Him, not from each other. Any guilty child knows that fear. Their intimate, open relationship with God had gone, and they made their own effort to 'cover' for their sins. God then showed them the only way to do that, a way that prefigured the sacrifice of His Son.

God did not prescribe a judgement on their nakedness "Who told you...?" Their own guilty conscience was their condemner. The issue is sin, not clothing.

And I repeat my previous statement. If the couple were rightly ashamed of being naked before each other, then the common teaching that nudity is OK only between husband and wife cannot be sustained: husband and wife were both ashamed at being naked in the presence of each other! in the Genesis story. No, it was their guilt that caused their shame, or being naked before God.

John
NZ

 

[TheDag]

And I repeat my previous statement. If the couple were rightly ashamed of being naked before each other, then the common teaching that nudity is OK only between husband and wife cannot be sustained: husband and wife were both ashamed at being naked in the presence of each other! in the Genesis story. No, it was their guilt that caused their shame, or being naked before God.

sorry I missed it. Who is arguing that nakedness between husband and wife is shameful and where did they say that?

 

[luchsgud]

The first mention of naked in Gen 2:25 is in Hebrew arom. It Job 26:6 it refers to hell being naked before God, conveying as in Gen 2:25 the concept of openness, nothing being hidden.

Job 26:6 Hell is naked before him, and destruction has no covering.

Am I really discrediting the writer and his use of derivations of the same word, or are you trying to read something into what he wrote but never meant?

Look at Job. "Destruction has no covering". What is the meaning of that word 'covering" in the Hebrew? It means unclothed, or without a garment or veil. The fact that, in Job's case it refers to the fact that nothing is hidden from him does not change the literal meaning of the word.

I never said that Adam & Eve were not ashamed in each other's presence on discovering their nudity, I said the law allows such nudity between a husband and a wife. It gives no other concessions.

There is not one shred of Scriptural evidence that gives support to nudity in a community. Quite the opposite in fact.

If I told you, "I got undressed and stood there unclothed," would you think I meant two different things?

I could have said, "I got naked and stayed naked," and meant exactly the same thing.

 

[Johnnz]

sorry I missed it. Who is arguing that nakedness between husband and wife is shameful and where did they say that?

No one has said that. I was arguing against the view that scripture teaches that nakedness between husband and wife is OK, when, if the Genesis is taken to mean that any other nakedness is wrong, it was a husband and wife who covered themselves up, presumably because they were ashamed of being naked with each other. There was no one else there to cause shame.

John
NZ