Freakonomics and Abortion

Rize

Well-Known Member
Oct 15, 2002
2,158
14
44
Louisana
✟17,900.00
Faith
Atheist
Politics
US-Libertarian
If you haven't read freakonomics, one chapter of the book goes to great length to explain that the legalization of abortion in 1973 via Roe v. Wade led to, in the mid 1990's, a dramatic and unexpected drop in crime. Not that this is a justification of abortion.

Anyway, let's assume that is true for the purpose of discussion and consider the following three possibilities.

For those who want to illegalize abortion, is the the corresponding increase in crime that we can expect 20 and further years down the line acceptable? In other words, is taking away the choice of abortion more important to you than any possible social consequence?

What if the inreased birthrate among less educated and wealthy families results in an increase in the number of liberal voters (poorer people tend to vote for democrats) as well as an increase in crime. Meaning that at most you can expect to have abortion be illegal for 50 years before it's legalized again (for say another 50 years)? If such a cycle would manifest, would prohibiting abortion still be worth it?

What if, in the long run, allowing legalized abortions but constantly working to convince people to take preventive measures (education, contraception etc.) would result in fewer abortions than participating in such a cycle. Would it then be morally acceptable not to leave abortion legal?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Janus

CSmrw

Well-Known Member
Jan 10, 2006
1,943
140
53
✟10,350.00
Faith
Atheist
There are a few other factors involved in that particular study, though. It can also be said that conservative power has been solidified in that period, and a tough on crime attitude has finally, after fits and starts, started to pay off. Also there is the ten year rule, that economic ups and downs manifest in crime rates at about a ten year lag, meaning we can expect new crime wave within the next three or so years. Economics, it has always seemed to me, is a very reactive science that pretends at predictive powers it can not have.

As to your questions, deciding whether or not abortion remains legal based on future considerations is poor lawmaking. It should be decided on it's fundamental merits only.
 
Upvote 0

CSmrw

Well-Known Member
Jan 10, 2006
1,943
140
53
✟10,350.00
Faith
Atheist
Jan87676 said:
Your mom was pro-life.

She was also an alcohlic Mormon divorce' working three jobs for less than minimum wage and taking entire weekends off from her family to get high and have sex while the kids ate whatever they could scrounge.

Moms have good and bad aspects. Which is more than I can say for people who sloganeer.
 
Upvote 0

Janus

I smolder with generic rage
Dec 11, 2003
523
79
42
Montreal, Canada
✟16,181.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Good post, Rize.

CSmrw said:
She was also an alcohlic Mormon divorce' working three jobs for less than minimum wage and taking entire weekends off from her family to get high and have sex while the kids ate whatever they could scrounge.

Moms have good and bad aspects. Which is more than I can say for people who sloganeer.

ROFLMAO!! Ohhh, that was truly brilliant.
EDIT: Err, unless you weren't joking.


michabo said:
Are you asking if the means justify the ends?

Isn't it the other way around? The ends (drop in crime, drop in abortions) justify the means (legalizing abortion)?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Janus

I smolder with generic rage
Dec 11, 2003
523
79
42
Montreal, Canada
✟16,181.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
michabo said:
Haha! Yeah, I stupidly misspoke.

So yeah, do you think it is about the ends justifying the means?

I know you're not asking me (or are you?), but I think you nailed it on the head, and in my opinion the ends do justify the means.

If we assume Rize's statements are true, I'd support the legalizing of abortion even if I thought the life of an embryo was sacred.
 
Upvote 0

Catholicism

Veteran
May 2, 2005
1,628
40
35
✟2,027.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
michabo said:

If you are against abortion then you are saying the a mother does not have the choice to kill her child, while if you say that abortion is ok, then saying that the child does not have a choice on whether it lives or not.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Stormy

Senior Contributor
Jun 16, 2002
9,441
868
St. Louis, Mo
Visit site
✟51,954.00
Faith
Christian
Politics
US-Others
Janus said:
I'd support the legalizing of abortion even if I thought the life of an embryo was sacred.

Why not then, just kill everyone who breaks the law, and/or does poorly in school? Then we could live in a crime free intelligent society!

Sounds pretty good!

doesn't it?

*please note the sarcasm*
 
  • Like
Reactions: DieHappy
Upvote 0

Grizzly

Enemy of Christmas
Site Supporter
Jul 6, 2002
13,036
1,674
57
Tallahassee
✟46,060.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Catholicism said:
If you are against abortion then you are saying the a mother does not have the choice to kill her child, while if you say that abortion is ok, then saying that the child does not have a choice on whether it lives or not.

Fetuses cannot make choices.

My wife is strongly pro-choice. And we have a child. So I guess my son's mother is pro-choice. Pro-choice does not equal pro-abortion.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Stormy

Senior Contributor
Jun 16, 2002
9,441
868
St. Louis, Mo
Visit site
✟51,954.00
Faith
Christian
Politics
US-Others
CSmrw said:
And the lack of critical thought.

I was responding to a person who did not care about life being sacred, or not... all that mattered was how the said life helped or hurt society.... therefore my thoughts were extremely critical.

Surely you have a better response then just trying to attack me. They have a word for that in debate... loser. lol :D
 
Upvote 0