France - What's the Real Reason They Strongly Oppose War?

[TheBear]

I'd like to hear all your thoughts on this. I will reserve comment for the moment.

 

[Jerry Smith]

I'll take wild swing, and list the reasons in no particular order, since they may be too interdependent to sort out one from another:

1) No convincing case for immediate war has been made
2) France has interests in Iraq, including but not limited to oil interests, and expect to be squeezed out after an American and British led invasion.
3) France does not want to be feared and hated by the rest of the world, or perceived as a bully who consorts only with the most powerful and the strongest nations against the less powerful and weaker nations.
4) France's citizens (in general) are opposed to the war, and France is a democracy.
5) France doesn't want to commit its fighting men and women to a war without justification.

 

[ern]

I would have to say economic interests are the main reason, but thats a biased, outsiders view

 

[Jerry Smith]

The cynic in me tends to agree with ern, but there really isn't enough evidence to decide. France has plenty of good reasons to choose from to not support the war, and economic interests almost definitely figure in, but may or may not be the prime motivating factor.

 

[Blindfaith]

I'll have to find the article, but there's a person, anonymous from the EU (potential country to join), who released some information about Jauque-baby being in cahoots, and being pals with Sadaam.  Apparently, not the French, but Jauque (I know I didn't spell that right, please correct me) approved the building of, and funding of, a nuclear reactor in the late 80's.

If anyone else has this article, or information, before I can get to it, please post it.  I have a throwing-up 5 year old, so I don't know how much time I'll have to search. .  Yippee!

 

[fragmentsofdreams]

Oil and a desire to regain lost glory.

 

[Evangelion]

Jerry -

1) No convincing case for immediate war has been made
2) France has interests in Iraq, including but not limited to oil interests, and expect to be squeezed out after an American and British led invasion.
3) France does not want to be feared and hated by the rest of the world, or perceived as a bully who consorts only with the most powerful and the strongest nations against the less powerful and weaker nations.
4) France's citizens (in general) are opposed to the war, and France is a democracy.
5) France doesn't want to commit its fighting men and women to a war without justification.

I agree with all of those except (3). France already demonstrated that she doesn't care too much for foreign opinion when she detonated several nuclear devices in the middle of the Mururoa Atoll. This resulted in global condemnation, but Chirac stood firm.

And of course, with nukes in her arsenal, she has no reason to fear anyone - especially not Hussein.

 

[datan]

a cornered & wounded wolf is usually the most dangerous...

 

[O'Mara]

Today at 06:35 AM Evangelion said this in Post #7 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=664339#post664339)

And of course, with nukes in her arsenal, she has no reason to fear anyone - especially not Hussein.

Except for her own people, who are, coincidently, quickly becoming more and more islamic in proportion. kind of makes me go "hmmmm"

 

[Evangelion]

"More and more Islamic in proportion"? But what proportion is that? Hardly a significant one - and hardly enough to constitute an effective lobby group.

Israel's influence on America is far more significant - and that by the grace of God, I believe.

QED.

 

[O'Mara]

Evangelion,

here's a good article

http://www.csis.org/europe/frm990412.html

 

[David Gould]

Humanitarian spirit and a desire to make the world a better place, of course.

Unfortunately not.

Oil - they have significant oil contracts with Iraq.

Jealousy of US power - France were once a world power and are no longer.

Fear of no longer being a leader in Europe - Eastern Europe is not traditionally friendly to France, and it has significant US ties, like the UK.

Internal politicing - with Chirac on the right and the majority of French sentiment against a war in Iraq, that gives a huge opportunity for the left to make an electoral move. This is in contrast to Blair's position: despite a huge slump in popularity, he has nothing to fear as the conservatives will not gain from a swing to the left in England. Labour in Engalnd cannot lose out of the deal - Chirac, however, can lose a great deal.

Poor US handling of the diplomatic situation - this contributed to a rise in anti-American sentiment in France and Germany. Foolish comments by Rumsfeldt in particular aggravated the situation and left the French especially aggravated. With the UN vote crucial to Bush in particular, the French and Germans should have been considered well in advance of any crisis with them.

 

That is my view, at any rate.

 

[Jerry Smith]

O'mara - good article. France does have a growing Islamic minority. France has opportunities here. They can show the Muslims that western values are good for everybody, and welcome Muslims into the fold - helping to marginalize the anti-west sentiment of the fundamentalist minority. I would like to think that (for that reason alone, and not out of their other interests ), France will listen to the voices of their Islamic minority in a manner consistent with western ideals of free expression and democracy.

 

[Jerry Smith]

David - good post (unfortunately)... National policy is all too often dicacted by concerns that are less than noble. In France, too.

 

[Evangelion]

O'Mara -

Evangelion,

here's a good article

http://www.csis.org/europe/frm990412.html

Interesting, but I notice that Muslims are still defined as a minority. The article speculates on the possibility of Muslim influence on French policy, but presents nothing particularly concrete.

It estimates the Muslim population of France as somewhere between 4-5 million. France currently has a population of 61.4 million. That's not enough to change government policy.

While I agree that the French might be making some gestures for the benefit of their Muslim population, I would like to point out that America has made similar concessions to hers. This does not equate to "France is refusing to enter the war because her Muslim population won't allow it."

France's interests in the ME are both political and economic. Iraq is an old friend, and - like America - France wants Iraq's oil. Let's not forget that Iraq is the world's second-largest oil exporter.

 

[O'Mara]

Today at 03:26 AM Jerry Smith said this in Post #14 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=666420#post666420)

David - good post (unfortunately)... National policy is all too often dicacted by concerns that are less than noble. In France, too.

And in some cases, we cannot begin to understand the complexities of government policies until after the fact. It's the paradox of secure society.

 

[O'Mara]

I was just offering, as a possibiliy, that Frances sympathizes with the Arab/Islamic world.

 

[coastie]

I heard a Canadian radio commentator say that France is just bitter because US wine and US cheese is better than French and they want their titles back.

 

[Evangelion]

Yes, that's also a very strong possibility.

 

[coastie]

Well, if it will smooth things over between us, I just as soon let them have their titles back. I'll give Ernest and Julio Gallo a call and tell them to ease up a bit. They're from my home town