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Four months and then the harvest - John 4

Discussion in 'Exposition & Bible Study' started by dqhall, Jun 27, 2020.

  1. dqhall

    dqhall Well-Known Member Supporter

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    In the Gospel of John, Jesus was going from Judea in the south toward Galilee. He was passing through Samaria at Sychar. Some suggested this was Shechem. Jesus met a woman by a well and talked to her while his disciples went into town to buy food. While conversing, he told the woman she had five husbands and the one she was currently going with was not her husband. The woman had never met Jesus before and concluded he was prophesying.

    John 4:28 (WEB) So the woman left her water pot, went away into the city, and said to the people, 29 “Come, see a man who told me everything that I did. Can this be the Christ?”

    30 They went out of the city, and were coming to him. 31 In the meanwhile, the disciples urged him, saying, “Rabbi, eat.”

    32 But he said to them, “I have food to eat that you don’t know about.”

    33 The disciples therefore said to one another, “Has anyone brought him something to eat?”

    34 Jesus said to them, “My food is to do the will of him who sent me and to accomplish his work. 35 Don’t you say, ‘There are yet four months until the harvest?’ Behold, I tell you, lift up your eyes and look at the fields, that they are white for harvest already. 36 He who reaps receives wages and gathers fruit to eternal life; that both he who sows and he who reaps may rejoice together. 37 For in this the saying is true, ‘One sows, and another reaps.’ 38 I sent you to reap that for which you haven’t labored. Others have labored, and you have entered into their labor.”

    39 From that city many of the Samaritans believed in him because of the word of the woman, who testified, “He told me everything that I did.”

    I sometimes thought the part about four months until the harvest might have meant the olive harvest as olive groves are upon the hills and mountains of Samaria to this day. The olive harvest was September - November depending on the region and whether green or brown olives were being picked. Then Jesus talked about fields being white for the harvest already. I thought this harvest might mean instructing people in God’s ways. Jesus spoke in figures of speech, like in a previous verse Jesus talked about his food was to do the will of he who sent him. When barley ripened it turned from green to light brown, almost white. Barley ripened earlier than wheat. The barley harvest was from the end of March to the end of May in Israel, depending on region as it was hot along the Judea coast and cooler in northern Galilee. The wheat harvest was later than the barley harvest and continued until June. (This section was edited with more accurate harvest data).

    It is difficult to discern what time of year Jesus was passing through Samaria. The Gospels seem to have chronological order in part, but other times the writers may have written about things Jesus did without preserving chronological order. In the Gospel of John the cleansing of the temple was near the beginning of the Gospel and in the other three Gospels it was near the end of the Gospel. I have a theory Jesus was passing through Samaria after the Passover, four months before the olive harvest.

    Any ideas?
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2020
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  2. Baby Tiger

    Baby Tiger sez:Grow In Grace

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    When I searched the Gospels seeking chronology, I found in the synoptics no real effort to provide one.
    The Gospel of John is a different story. As you have already indicated, chapter 2 after the wedding at Cana: v.13 Now the Passover of the Jews was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem.
    As Yeshua kept the Law of Moses, all males were required to "appear before the Lord" 3 times a year.(Ironic right). Let's also keep this in mind that Yeshua came:
    Luke 4:19. To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
    Do we really believe that He went to Jerusalem three times, preached the Good News, cleansed the Temple, rebuked the Elders and confronted the Jews about their beliefs and then said "No? Okay, I will come back next year for the less acceptable second year of the Lord." My conclusions are that the 3 to 3 1/2 year ministry of Yeshua is a scholarly myth. Picking up from where you started us in Chapter 4, you are correct to conclude it was Spring prior to the Barley Harvest.
    Picking up in chapter 5:
    1 After this there was a feast of the Jews, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem. [not specified]
    2 Now there is in Jerusalem by the Sheep Gate a pool, which is called in Hebrew, Bethesda, having five porches. [multitudes about pools of water indicates Spring has arrived, and this is Firstfruits]
    In Chapter 6, John masterfully contrasts the feeding of the multitudes to a conversation with the Jews in which the Lord proclaims: "I Am the Bread from heaven." The narrative indicates that the miracle of feeding the multitudes occurred about the time of the Passover. There is no reason to logically conclude that he is jumping forward to the next year, as the information just points to when this happened.
    Chapter 7, The Great Feast, Yeshua proclaims “If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink."
    The next time the calendar of feasts is mentioned, Yeshua and his disciples are headed up to Jerusalem for the Passover, before which He is crucified. This is the best chronology of the Gospels, and I believe supports the words of Isaiah, That Yeshua preached "the acceptable year of the Lord."
     
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  3. Andrewn

    Andrewn Well-Known Member CF Ambassadors Supporter

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    Cambridge Commentary:

    "There are yet four months, &c.] This cannot be a proverb. No such proverb is known; and a proverb on the subject would have to be differently shaped; e.g. ‘From seedtime to harvest is four months,’ or something of the kind. So that we may regard this saying as a mark of time. Harvest began in the middle of Nisan or April. Four months from that would place this event in the middle of December: or, if (as some suppose) this was a year in which an extra month was inserted, in the middle of January."

    Meyer's Commentary:

    "ὅτι ἔτι … ἔρχεται] Harvest began in the middle of Nisan (Lightfoot, v. 101), i.e. in April. Consequently the words must have been spoken in December, when Jesus, as the seed-time fell in Marchesvan (the beginning of November), might be surrounded by sown fields already showing tints of green, the harvest of which, however, could not be expected for four months to come. We render therefore: there are still four months (to wait, until) the harvest comes."
     
  4. dqhall

    dqhall Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The feeding of the 5,000 was after John had been executed. Jesus left for the opposite shore with his disciples. The Passover was one of three mandatory festivals where adult male Jews’ attendance was required. If Jesus and his disciples missed Passover, a make up date was provided (from the Talmud). I assumed the Passover was coming. John does not describe what happened there. The synoptic Gospels provided less information about festival attendance.

    In John 7 it is the feast of tabernacles/booths. That is another one of the three mandatory festivals. On the last day of the festival the priests marched from the temple down to the pool of Siloam with a gold pitcher and filled it with water. They returned to the temple. The priest then poured the water over the altar.

    In John 7:37 (WEB) Now on the last and greatest day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink! 38 He who believes in me, as the Scripture has said, from within him will flow rivers of living water.” 39 But he said this about the Spirit, which those believing in him were to receive. For the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus wasn’t yet glorified.”

    At this same festival of booths/tabernacles Jesus sent a blind man to Siloam and made him wash his eyes. After the blind man did as he was instructed, he was healed. Tabernacles was in the autumn.

    Next came the feast of dedication in the winter; that is Hanukkah. They tried to stone Jesus at the Hanukkah festival. He departed from there to the east bank of the Jordan River. The last festival was Passover where Jesus was put on trial, executed and rose to life on the third day.
     
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  5. dqhall

    dqhall Well-Known Member Supporter

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    There is more than one harvest in Israel. There is barley, wheat, figs, pomegranates, summer fruit, grapes, olives, almonds etc. Samaria is hills and mountains with some level ground in between. In Google Earth, there is flat land near the city of Nablus/Shechem, the traditional site of Jacob’s well, that is now urban city streets. There are two large valleys for grain north of Shechem that may have been Samaria. Further north were the large valleys of Beth Shean, a city of the Decapolis and the Jezreel Valley of the first century Jews.

    It is about four or five months from sowing barley until harvesting barley, maybe a little more. Wheat has a longer growing season and requires more rain than barley. It appears like five or six months or more from sowing wheat until harvest.
    https://www.joybysurprise.com/harvest-times-in-israel.html

    Four months and then the harvest might have meant the barley harvest was already ripe after being planted four months earlier, or that some grain had been planted and would be ripe in four months. They may have been talking about the olive harvest in four months. Due to limited context it is difficult to sense some of these passages.
     
  6. 5thKingdom

    5thKingdom Newbie

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    The harvest Jesus was talking about was the harvest
    of the Last Saints of the Jewish "Kingdom of Heaven"
    [Mat 22:2] into the Christian "Kingdom of Heaven"
    [Mat 13 in 8 verses]

    .
     
  7. 5thKingdom

    5thKingdom Newbie

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    Jesus was talking about the "harvest" of the
    last saints of the Jewish "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 22:2]
    into the Christian "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 13, 8 verses]


    /
     
  8. 5thKingdom

    5thKingdom Newbie

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    Jesus was talking of the "harvest" of the last saints
    from the Jewish "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 22:2]
    into the Christian "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 13 in 8 verses]

    /
     
  9. 5thKingdom

    5thKingdom Newbie

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    Jesus was talking about the "harvest" of the last saints from
    the Jewish "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 22:2] into the
    Christian "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 13 in 8 verses]

    .
     
  10. dqhall

    dqhall Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Sometimes there is more than one meaning. I read for barley it is four months from planting to reaping. The ripening times vary and depend on the weather. There is also a harvest of salvation works.
     
  11. 5thKingdom

    5thKingdom Newbie

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    Since Jesus came to "harvest" the last saints in the Jewish
    "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 22:2] into the Christian
    "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 13 in 8 verses] you can be sure
    Jesus was NOT talking about barley.


    Mat 21:43 Therefore say I unto you,
    The kingdom of God shall be TAKEN from you, and GIVEN
    to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.


    .
     
  12. dqhall

    dqhall Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Probably only a few will be saved, not likely an entire nation, unless it be a tribe of Christians.
     
  13. 5thKingdom

    5thKingdom Newbie

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    The verse means the "Kingdom of God" is TAKEN from the Jews
    and GIVEN to the Christians.


    .
     
  14. dqhall

    dqhall Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Jesus is Jewish, and more than Jewish. The Kingdom was not taken from him. Who are you?
     
  15. 5thKingdom

    5thKingdom Newbie

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    Are you saying you REJECT Matthew 21:43?
    Notice [v45] that the Jews realized Jesus was
    talking about them. Remember, I did not write
    those words... it was JESUS who said them.


    Mat 21:43 Therefore say I unto you,
    The kingdom of God shall be TAKEN from you,
    and GIVEN to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

    Mat 21:45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had
    heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.


    You build a STRAWMAN when you say the Kingdom
    was taken "from Him" (from Jesus)... since that is NOT
    what the Scripture says at all. You twisted Jesus' Words.


    Instead, what the Scripture says is the "Kingdom of God"
    shall be TAKEN from YOU (the Jews) and GIVEN to another
    nation which would produce fruit (the Christians)


    Sir... do you not realize that the ministry of Jesus
    included the "harvest" of the LAST Jewish Saints
    into the Christian "Kingdom of Heaven"
    [Mat 13 in 8 verses]



    With the Great Commission all the LAST Jewish Saints
    were "harvested" OUT of the Jewish Kingdom and

    INTO the Christian Kingdom... is this "news" to you?


    You ask me "who are you"?
    I am the one that just taught you a Biblical mystery.
    Who do you think I am?


    Are you NOT AWARE that the Bible PROMISED the Last Saints
    would reveal Biblical mysteries which remained "closed-up" and
    "sealed" to all previous Saints [Dan12:4 and 12:8-10] and the
    Bible PROMISED the Last Saints "shall see ALL these things"
    (all Great Tribulation prophecies) [Mat 24:15 and 24:33] and
    the Bible PROMISED the Last Saints shall "prophesy again" about
    these mysteries as the Seventh Trumpet "begins to sound"
    [Rev 10:7-11]


    I am one of the last of the "wise virgins"...
    do you know WHO they are?


    /
     
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