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Founders of Freemasonry?

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Skip Sampson

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circuitrider said:
Skip, racism in most Christian groups in the south and in much of the north is a horrible part of US history. So it is bogus to place special blame on Freemasonry for what was a part of a wrong by the entire society and not just lodges.
I have not done so, but merely pointed out the hypocrisy of Masons for stating belief in the brotherhood of man and yet participating in the slavery of one class of man. Indeed, Christians were active in the same thing.

But the point made earlier is not the one you note above. Here is the exchange:
circuitrider said:
You'd have to prove that organized of Freemasonry itself was behind some evil action, not some individual Mason.
Me said:
You mean something like Freemasonry's exclusion of black men from its membership for over two centuries? I'd say that's an evil action that is directly attributed to Freemasonry itself, vice the actions of individual Masons.
By your comments, I think you agree that it was an evil action that can be directly attributed to Freemasonry itself.

Fundamentalist Christians do not believe that the only knowledge is found in the Church. We have no 'Church,' beyond the body of believers. We do believe in scripture, as the Baptist Faith and Message addresses: So, while I understand your discussion of Methodist doctrine, how a self-proclaimed Christian, who would therefore have the indwelling Spirit, could find anything of use in Freemasonry is beyond me. If the Spirit and the model of Jesus Christ aren't enough, I'd say there's something really wrong in your denomination's doctrine.

It is primarily fundamentalist Christians who segregate the Church from the rest of God's created world and act as if nothing can be found to be true or be learned outside of the four walls of the Church.
Your understanding of fundamentalism is deeply flawed. I'd suggest doing a little homework before commenting upon it.

Remember that not all Christians view Christianity the way you do Skip.
I'm sure they don't. I have no prohibitions against dancing or drinking, but I do believe that faith in Jesus is the only means of salvation. Do you concur? Cordially, Skip.
 
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Skip Sampson

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circuitrider said:
No, I've never been a member of a lodge that didn't admit non-Christians. No, I would not belong to a lodge that wouldn't admit non-Christians.
Thank you for the response. I appreciate your honesty and will respect it. Cordially, Skip.
 
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circuitrider

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Thank you for the response. I appreciate your honesty and will respect it. Cordially, Skip.

OK, that's nice. But what's the big deal? Freemasonry doesn't claim to be an organization only for Christians. It isn't a church.
 
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circuitrider

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Skip,

Remember, you don't know me. I grew up in the Southern Baptist Convention. I've seen fundamentalism close up for years. In my early ministry I pastored an SBC church during the fundamentalist takeover of the SBC. I'm quite familiar with fundamentalism close up. And I do recognize that a major portion of the opposition to Freemasonry come primarily from two Christian camps, fundamentalists and conservative Roman Catholics.

Some of the same people who don't think Masons can be Christians really don't think that mainline Christians are real (or at least good) Christians anyway. Before you define if Freemasonry is compatible with Christianity you might want to realize you and I may not even agree on much of what defines Christianity either.
 
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Skip Sampson

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circuitrider said:
Remember, you don't know me. I grew up in the Southern Baptist Convention. I've seen fundamentalism close up for years.
Maybe so, but your commentary does not show such familiarity. Whatever your past is, you were totally out in left field over what fundamentalists believe; thus my conclusion that you really did not do any honest research on the topic.
I do recognize that a major portion of the opposition to Freemasonry come primarily from two Christian camps, fundamentalists and conservative Roman Catholics.
That is probably correct, at least in the U.S.

Before you define if Freemasonry is compatible with Christianity you might want to realize you and I may not even agree on much of what defines Christianity either.
I do not determine Freemasonry's compatibility with Christianity as being dependent on my own beliefs; rather, that determination is based on its doctrinal concepts and their comparison with Biblical Christianity. Whether we'd disagree about what is and is not Christianity is a different question. Open a thread, if you are interested, and let's discuss. Cordially, Skip.
 
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Albion

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There is no conflict between the Christian faith and Freemasonry. Although some Christians here seem to think so. I am a Christian and a Freemason.

The one who posts here most often and once was a Mason until disciplined by his lodge doesn't represent any mainline Christian church; and I suspect that if his background were as a member of a city council, school board, or other civic organization that routinely started its meetings with a non-denominational prayer...he'd be mad at them instead of Masonry.
 
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americanvet

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You mean when I lead a prayer in the US Army for about 5,000 soldiers God did not accept it because some of the people in the crowd were not Christians? Oh wait that's not what you're saying that was someone else.
 
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Albion

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You mean when I lead a prayer in the US Army for about 5,000 soldiers God did not accept it because some of the people in the crowd were not Christians? Oh wait that's not what you're saying that was someone else.

Yes, it was someone else. But your account of leading that prayer reminds me of something that happened to me within the past month. I was at a sports event where the home team, a Christian academy, began the evening with the national anthem AND a prayer.

I was slightly unprepared for that to be coming over the loudspeaker, but I figured it was not that strange, considering the nature of the school. But then I thought, by being here, I am praying with or at least being in the same place as others who are praying, and am I supposed to think this is wrong?...and there were plenty of other people who were not of the faith of the host school. Most of the visiting school people, for example.

So that would be the same situation as we're always told by opponents of Masonry is unchristian!

But IS it? And should I have run for the exits in order not to be among Christians of different denominations, some of whom might have a different belief about Communion or the End Times or something else like that? Could I even make it to the exit before the prayer was underway, I wondered????
 
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circuitrider

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You conclusion is bogus, again because you don't know me. Maybe you don't understand fundamentalism as well as you think you do, or you are too close to the subject.

Everyone who is a Christian believes their understanding of Christianity is "Biblical Christianity." So that claim carries no weight. I know enough about your career in anti-masonry to say that I'd not take your word for what is or isn't Biblical Christianity.
 
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Rhamiel

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I am kind of on the opposite end of the spectrum

I have no personal animosity against Freemasonry (beloved family members on both sides of my family have been Freemasons)
I was never a Freemason
and I am a member in good standing with biggest Christian Church around
 
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circuitrider

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As usual, when I get into a discussion about Freemasonry where at least one professional anti-mason is present, the discussion get surreal.

We have people claiming here that Freemasonry and Christianity are not compatible or that you can't be a Mason and a Christian. We also have claims that Freemasonry is involved in wars against a Christian group and murders as well, etc.

Now lets get back to reality...

In a couple of weeks I'll attend the stated meeting of my lodge. The Master of the lodge is a Methodist layman as is the secretary and the treasurer of the lodge. The officers of the lodge include a church organist and a pastor. The Grand Chaplain of our Grand Lodge is a licensed lay preacher and our most recent Past Grand Secretary was a Presbyterian lay preacher.

Last year's master of our lodge was an active Roman Catholic and his son, also active in the Roman Catholic Church, is master of another lodge in town.

Across town there is a lodge whose membership includes another UMC pastor, a Methodist Certified Lay Minister, and other Christian from several other churches in town.

Several past Grand Lodge officers are active members of churches in the area and worship regularly including in my own congregation.

Folks, most of the discussion in this thread about the compatibility of Masonry with Christian is just so much theoretical and untrue hogwash. While you talk about Freemasonry and Christianity being incompatible the majority of the lodge offices in the several lodges in my area are run by active Christians.
 
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Rhamiel

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look at the lynchings during the civil rights movement
the KKK had many "active Christians" as members
that does not mean that Christianity is compatible with racism

you pointed out there are active Catholics who are members of your lodge
so?
you can find nominal Christians in every denomination
people who go to services, but live in a way that is incompatible with the Christian faith
 
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Albion

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There are active, serious Catholics in my lodge, whether or not you know it or want to admit it. And most of the Fascist leaders and Mafia members of the last century were Catholics in good standing, whether or not you want to admit it. I presume that you know of their crimes. Yet you continue to belong to a church that they belonged to.
 
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Rhamiel

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yes, exactly

mafia, freemasons, fascists

you can find people who claim to be Catholic but live in a way that is incompatible with Catholic faith

same for every church really
 
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