Found the missing Church of Revelation!

[WailingWall]

REVELATION 19 [7] Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the MARRIAGE OF THE LAMB is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. [8] And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of SAINTS.

Marriage of the Lamb to the Saints

DANIEL 7 [27] And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of THE KINGDOM UNDER THE WHOLE HEAVEN, SHALL BE GIVEN TO THE PEOPLE OF THE SAINTS OF THE MOST HIGH, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

The kingdom given to the Saints

1 CORINTHIANS 1 [2] Unto the CHURCH OF GOD WHICH IS AT CORINTH, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, CALLED TO BE SAINTS, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

Church of the Corinthians that are called to be Saints

ROMANS 1 [7] To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, CALLED TO BE SAINTS: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Church of the Romans that are called to be Saints

EPHESIANS 1 [1] Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, TO THE SAINTS WHICH ARE AT EPHESUS, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

And again, the Ephesians are the Saints of God

COLOSSIANS 1 [1] Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timotheus our brother, [2] TO THE SAINTS and faithful brethren in Christ WHICH ARE AT COLOSSE: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

The church of Colossians are the Saints

REVELATION 13 [3] And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. [4] And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, WHO IS LIKE UNTO THE BEAST? WHO IS ABLE TO MAKE WAR WITH HIM? [5] And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. [6] And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. [7] And IT WAS GIVEN UNTO HIM TO MAKE WAR WITH THE SAINTS, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Looky looky! Here we find the beast making war against Gods Saints. If you believe the above scriptures that say the Saints belong to the various churhes you gotta know they have not been raptured as the Rapturist claim. They claim the church will not confront the beast at all. Dilly Dilly!

 

[DennisTate]

Very well written!

But there is a possibility that the saints....... that the Beast is making war with.... are the Laodicean era Christians who had not had sufficient oil in their lamps to be raptured?

You might find what I wrote about the rapture a few years ago to be useful to you as you research these questions:

Yom Kippur/The Rapture connection?!

Dr. Richard Eby:

...."He paused as though the joy of that thought had overwhelmed him for the moment.

"My Father assures me that the time is yet a little while, but very little. Soon he will call those already in paradise to surround me as we descend from this third heaven to the first heaven around the Earth. The souls of all my saints will be instantly clothed in their new resurrection bodies, as will the living saints on Earth who rise to us in the glory cloud! At the sounding trumpet they all receive new bodies and rise to meet us in the air. We return as my body to my throne room with the Father. Now do you understand why I called this place a temporary abiding place? Do you grasp what it will mean to be one with me and the Father in your incorruptible bodies? My book states that I assumed mankind's sin so you "might be made the righteousness of God' in me!"

I can clearly recall how Jesus' voice paused at this moment. He was savoring an anticipation too intense and private to be revealed. Was he pre-living that moment at which he would enjoy the victory which his Father would give him as the eternal reward for his own long-suffering? His own sting of death would be swallowed up, and he would be the omniscient Head of a completed and compliant body for whom he had shed his blood on a terrible cross. He would reign as KING of the Jews after these days of grace. Then his thoughts returned to me.

"My son, when that time has come, my Father will call to me. The applause of the heavenly hosts will be deafening; they too have been awaiting that day, ever since they announced my birth to the shepherds at Bethlehem so long ago. Scoffers will gaze with fear and wonder as my angelic hosts watch me fulfill my promise to my earthly body of believers at my soon return to Earth." (Dr. Richard Eby, near-death .com)

 

[WailingWall]

Very well written!

But there is a possibility that the saints....... that the Beast is making war with.... are the Laodicean era Christians who had not had sufficient oil in their lamps to be raptured?

Dr. Richard Eby:

Where do you find {in scripture}this group are saints?

 

[DennisTate]

Where do you find {in scripture}this group are saints?

Lukewarm...... backslidden saints..... are still saints.........
it is just that they are saints who do not have very much oil in their lamps.....and they are
NOT going through the doors that are open to them to preach and teach and inspire others.......

especially..... unbelievers.

Matthew 25:3 (NKJV)

Matthew 25:1

¶
“Then the kingdom of heaven shall be likened to ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom.

“Now five of them were wise, and five were foolish.

“Those who were foolish took their lamps and took no oil with them,

 

[WailingWall]

But there is a possibility that the saints....... that the Beast is making war with.... are the Laodicean era Christians who had not had sufficient oil in their lamps to be raptured?

MATTHEW 25 [1] Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. [2] And FIVE OF THEM WERE WISE, and five were foolish. [3] They that were foolish took THEIR LAMPS, and took NO OIL with them: [4] But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.

Verse 2...five were wise

PSALM 111 [10] The fear of the LORD is the beginning of WISDOM: a good understanding have all they that DO HIS COMMANDMENTS: his praise endureth for ever.

Wise? Do His commandments

EXODUS 39 [37] The pure candlestick, with the lamps thereof, even with the lamps to be set in order, and all the vessels thereof, and the OIL FOR LIGHT,

PROVERBS 6 [23] For THE COMMANDMENT IS A LAMP; and THE LAW IS LIGHT; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life:

Seems 5 virgins were not able to light their lamps. Why? They had no oil for light. The law is light. They werent keeping Gods law.

Revelation 14:12 (KJV)
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Well..seems those that were foolish are not Saints at all

 

[WailingWall]

Lukewarm...... backslidden saints..... are still saints.........

Ahhhh.... You claim the backslidden of the laodicean church are saints but.... you cant find that in scripture. Your adding to the Word of God with speculation and not the Word itself. Thats a bad thing Dennis

 

[WailingWall]

Revelation 3:14-16 (KJV)
14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

Do you really speculate that God will spew His Saints out of His mouth. I think not!

 

[DennisTate]

Ahhhh.... You claim the backslidden of the laodicean church are saints but.... you cant find that in scripture. Your adding to the Word of God with speculation and not the Word itself. Thats a bad thing Dennis

In my 58 years I have done some pretty bad things......
and some astonishingly stupid things.......
so if this is indeed a bad thing.......(and you could be correct it could be).... then I am pretty sure that it is not quite up there with the really, really, really stupid things that I have done...........)......

Perhaps this is part of the backlash from the online ministry that I am attempting to begin???????

Christian outreach to Satanists.....

 

[DennisTate]

Revelation 3:14-16 (KJV)
14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

Do you really speculate that God will spew His Saints out of His mouth. I think not!

Mouth ..... is a word and is subject to definition.

Spue.... is a word and is subject to definition.....

Pastor Bob Jones reports being shown a Christian pastor..... dying and meeting Messiah Yeshua - Jesus.......
Messiah Yeshua - Jesus asks the pastor..... what have you done for my people the Jews.......
and the pastor goes on and on and on and on about the exorcisms and healings that he was involved in....... and Messiah Yeshua - Jesus sends the man to the "outer darkness"..... but this could perhaps mean only the first heaven.... that Pastor Bob Jones reports seeing and feeling comfortable in,........ but the second and third heaven were too bright and energetic for him..........
back in 1975 when he says he was only a baby Christian.... in spite of his already being a pastor.....

I will try to find the video that that is in....... I think I posted it here:
The near death experience of Pastor Bob Jones!

 

[amariselle]

MATTHEW 25 [1] Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. [2] And FIVE OF THEM WERE WISE, and five were foolish. [3] They that were foolish took THEIR LAMPS, and took NO OIL with them: [4] But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.

Verse 2...five were wise

PSALM 111 [10] The fear of the LORD is the beginning of WISDOM: a good understanding have all they that DO HIS COMMANDMENTS: his praise endureth for ever.

Wise? Do His commandments

EXODUS 39 [37] The pure candlestick, with the lamps thereof, even with the lamps to be set in order, and all the vessels thereof, and the OIL FOR LIGHT,

PROVERBS 6 [23] For THE COMMANDMENT IS A LAMP; and THE LAW IS LIGHT; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life:

Seems 5 virgins were not able to light their lamps. Why? They had no oil for light. The law is light. They werent keeping Gods law.

Revelation 14:12 (KJV)
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Well..seems those that were foolish are not Saints at all

So who among us has kept God's Law?

Are we under the Law? Do we need to keep the Law to be saints (saved)?

"For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." -Romans 4:2-5

"Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."-Romans 10:1-4

"Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified." -Galatians 2:16

"O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?" - Galatians 3:1-3

"Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith." - Galatians 5:4-5

"And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."-Ephesians 2:6-9

"Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world." - Hebrews 4:1-3

 

[Kenny'sID]

"For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

I believe God too when he tells me in several lists throughout the NT what will happen to people who break the rules, and live a life of unrepentant sin. I also believe Jesus and his warning of what happens to people who don't take care of others.

So, since what we both claim is actually biblical...now what?

 

[amariselle]

I believe God too when he tells me in several lists throughout the NT what will happen to people who break the rules, and live a life of unrepentant sin. I also believe Jesus and his warning of what happens to people who don't take care of others.

So, since what we both claim is actually biblical...now what?

Please share the verses where it tells us we must stop sinning/never sin again to be saved.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Please share the verses where it tells us we must stop sinning/never sin again to be saved.

Please show me where I made such a claim.

 

[amariselle]

Please show me where I made such a claim.

Is "breaking the rules" not considered sinning?

Is "failing to take care of others" not sinning?

What "rules" are we supposed to keep? How do we know if we've kept them well enough. What happens to us if we don't, if we mess up?

 

[WailingWall]

In my 58 years I have done some pretty bad things......
and some astonishingly stupid things.......

Im right there with ya Dennis

 

[WailingWall]

So who among us has kept God's Law?

Are we under the Law? Do we need to keep the Law to be saints (saved)?

"For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." -Romans 4:2-5

Honest Abe truly was not justified by his works and yet

GENESIS 26 [3] Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I WILL PERFORM THE OATH WHICH I SWARE UNTO ABRAHAM thy father; [4] And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; [5] BECAUSE THAT ABRAHAM OBEYED MY VOICE, and kept my charge, MY COMMANDMENTS, my statutes, and MY LAWS.

Honest Abe was keeping Gods 10 commandments

 

[WailingWall]

So who among us has kept God's Law?

Are we under the Law? Do we need to keep the Law to be saints (saved)?

"Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."-Romans 10:1-4

DEUT. 30 [10] If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul. [11] For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. [12] It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, WHO SHALL GO UP FOR US TO HEAVEN, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? [13] Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? [14] But THE WORD IS VERY NIGH UNTO THEE, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

Israel was told they were to keep Gods 10 commandments. The Word is nigh

ROMANS 10 [1] Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. [2] For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. [3] For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. [4] For CHRIST IS THE END OF THE LAW FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS to every one that believeth. [5] For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them. [6] But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, WHO SHALL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN? (that is, to bring Christ down from above [7] Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) [8] But what saith it? THE WORD IS NIGH THEE, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

The Word is nigh. But Israel was ignorant at the time that they could not attain Gods righteousness by keeping the law. They did not know that Christ was the end of the law for righteousness. No matter how well they kept the 10 commandments they would fall short and be as filthy rags. The bottom line is that we as believers are still to keep Gods 10 commandments but its only by grace through faith in the shed blood of Christ that we are made righteous. His blood alone washes us clean from our short comings in keeping His law. Christ is the end of the law for righteousness.

EZEKIEL 33 [13] When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; IF HE TRUST TO HIS OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, HE SHALL DIE for it. [14] Again, when I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; IF HE TURN FROM HIS SIN, AND DO THAT WHICH IS LAWFUL and right; [15] If the wicked restore the pledge, give again that he had robbed, walk in the statutes of life, without committing iniquity; he shall surely live, HE SHALL NOT DIE. [16] None of his sins that he hath committed shall be mentioned unto him: HE HATH DONE THAT WHICH IS LAWFUL AND RIGHT; HE SHALL SURELY LIVE.

Its explained more fully in Ezek.33. We are to observe to keep Gods law but we must not trust in it as a means of attaining true righteousness. Christ is the end of the law for righteousness because we will all fall short in keeping the law. Its ONLY by the blood of Christ and His grace that we shall become righteous.

ROMANS 5 [19] For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. [20] Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: [21] That as SIN HATH REIGNED UNTO DEATH, even so might GRACE REIGN THROUGH RIGHTEOUSNESS UNTO ETERNAL LIFE by Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[WailingWall]

So who among us has kept God's Law? Are we under the Law? Do we need to keep the Law to be saints (saved)?

What do the scriptures say?

Revelation 14:12 (KJV)
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

 

[DennisTate]

Im right there with ya Dennis

i betcha you cannot think of anything that you ever did......
or prayed about......
that would be quite as dumb as what I told Rabbi Yeshayahu Hollander about back in 2010?

I got so angry with Messiah Yeshua - Jesus over two things that he said........
(well.... three actually).... that for ten years... .I often used four letter words while praying????????!

No kidding.... i think I was trying to make Messiah Yeshua - Jesus angry with me??????


My conversation with the Rabbi.....

 

[WailingWall]

So who among us has kept God's Law? Are we under the Law? Do we need to keep the Law to be saints (saved)?

Galatians 2:16

Galatians 3:1-3

Galatians 5:4-5

The book of Galatians is a book containing 6 very short chapters. In these 6 chapters circumcision is mentioned 16 times. The commandments are not mentioned once. Yet, those people that wish to do away with GODS commandments use scriptures from Galatians to try and do so. The law of circumcism is one of the carnal ordinances of the law that were nailed to the cross. Those that wish to do away with Gods 10 commandments will also try and tell you that the ordinances and the ten commandments are simply parts of the law and are not separate from one another. In saying that they will point to a scripture thats speaking of circumcision and then apply that scripture to Gods 10 commandments. This is done to extreme in the book of Galatians. The scripture below separates the law, the commandments and the ordinances

2 KINGS 17 [36] But the LORD, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt with great power and a stretched out arm, him shall ye fear, and him shall ye worship, and to him shall ye do sacrifice.[37] AND the statutes, AND the ordinances, AND the law, AND the commandment, which he wrote for you, ye shall observe to do for evermore; and ye shall not fear other gods.

AND means AND

1 COR. 7 [19] Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

And although the law of circumcision was nailed to the cross, Gods law (the 10 commandments) are to be kept.