Forum for LGBTQ Christians and allies

[PloverWing]

I would like to propose that CF have a forum in which LGBTQ issues can be discussed in a way that is supportive of LGBTQ Christians. I understand that CF rules do not currently permit such a forum. My proposal would require that some CF prohibitions be lifted in this, and only this, forum.

One of my motivations is that several denominational groups now support same-sex marriage and support gay people as ordained clergy. My denomination, the Episcopal Church, is one of these. Because of this, our churches need to be able to counsel young same-sex couples as they enter into marriages, and we need to be able to support the LGBTQ members of our churches in the variety of ministries that they are engaged in. We need to listen to the experiences of our LGBTQ church members to better understand their needs, and this requires some extended conversations. I would like for those conversations to be able to occur on CF.

I understand that this is a controversial area about which Christians disagree. CF already allows discussions on controversial topics in a number of forums. The denominational forums, for example, allow members of particular denominations to discuss their distinctive beliefs and practices. I propose that LGBTQ issues are one more area in which Christians disagree, and that it is appropriate to have one forum in which these issues can be discussed in a positive way.

I see two ways that my proposal could be implemented:

1) Creation of a new forum, or

2) Changing the rules of the WWMC forum to allow discussions that support LGBTQ Christians in their lives and ministries. (The current prohibition on "promotion" is ambiguous, but seems to exclude some kinds of supportive discussions.)

I would be happy with solutions that include some form of gatekeeping; for example, the forum might be invisible to members unless they have some kind of flag set in their profile, similar to the way the women's forums are invisible to people unless their profile says "female".

 

[Southernscotty]

Since it is against biblical principles, I would say no such thing should be allowed as it is a sin and it must be taught as such.
Lovingly of course as with all sins "however" we must never condone it.

 

[Emli]

I agree with Southernscotty. It isn't up to man to decide what is good or evil, and though some churches have given in to the world and teach against Scripture, the Church, including CF, needs to stay faithful to what GOD has spoken. We should focus on saving those who are lost in sin, not support them.

 

[Benjamin Calvary]

Because of this, our churches need to be able to counsel young same-sex couples as they enter into marriages

No, what needs to be done is to actually speak to these persons the Truth, in true Love - rather than this sin-sick unnatural free-lovism.

What also needs to be done, is to cease this ideological syncretism, wherein calling such "marriage" (redefining it to suit whatever one's lusts are to be fulfilled, so that it appears sanctified by God and His Holy word, when it is furthest from the truth), when it is scripturally no such thing whatsoever, as defined by Jesus from the beginning.

It is state and self sponsored sin, and several types can be seen in scripture, see the days of Noah, Sodom and Gomorrah, and Judges 19 to begin with.

and we need to be able to support the LGBTQ members of our churches in the variety of ministries that they are engaged in.

Again, no, what needs to be done, is that they all need to be removed from such positions within the body, apologized to for being lied to about what it means to follow Christ Jesus, and then told the truth in true love, ministered to in real Christ-like fashion, until they repent of their unnatural sin (Romans 1:26) and accept the true "the way, the truth and the life" (John 14:6).

Also, you are presently missing a 'letter' on that worthless acronym (which is really to include everything, except the real way to live, as defined by Jesus), as it now also includes "P", for "Paedo". Don't take my word for it, look it up. Yet, do not stop there, as there are other hidden letters also, including "Bs" (inappropriate behavior with animals), "N" (Necro), "M" (Multi-partner), "D" (Dendro) and others, like "R" (Robotic), "V" (Virtual), "I" (Imaginary), and any "O" (Object).

It is a universal badge for 'Don't judge me for my sin, but accept me in it", and have even stolen the covenant sign of God, the Rainbow of His character.

We need to listen to the experiences of our LGBTQ church members to better understand their needs

No, you need to listen to Jesus, who already told us all what a sinners need is. He said it at least twice in a single place.

Luk_13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Luk_13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

 

[dzheremi]

This doesn't seem like a very good idea, or even very good reasoning for the idea.

If there were a church or a group of churches that condoned pedophilia and those who practice it as ordained clergy within those churches, would it therefore make it acceptable or expedient that those churches have their own forum here specifically dedicated to the practices which they personally accept which are at odds with the rest of the Christian world? I wouldn't think so. And you can say "Well, the difference is one of consent", and you'd be right, in that this is a legal difference. But Christian Forums need not provide a space specifically dedicated to every legal right, as though Christian morality and legality necessarily have anything to do with one another. The distinction between the two is the basis of secular law/why "homosexual marriage" is even legally a thing now.

But in our own spaces we do not need to condone what the Bible condemns, thank God. Let's keep it that way. Persons who practice homosexuality or identify with it can be supported as people who struggle with sin and impulses to commit it, same as anyone. But in no case do we celebrate it or tell people that it is who they are. That is not a good message to be spread on a Christian website in the name of being an "ally".

This is Christian Forums, not Tumblr, Facebook, or literally anywhere else on the internet where the majority will praise you for "being LGBTQIA+" or "being an ally".

 

[CodyFaith]

CF at the moment is conservative in some ways (small c). This is one of the ways to which they are. So it's not going to happen at this present time imo.

No need to state my personal positions, just giving an (unofficial) likely answer.

 

[dzheremi]

CF at the moment is conservative in some ways (small c). This is one of the ways to which they are. So it's not going to happen at this present time imo.

Did it previously have some other stance on this issue?

 

[rusmeister]

"LGBT" is a euphemism that never existed until approximately fifteen years ago. In Christian history, that is a blip. Nothing. Nada. So we must ask how Christians have always called the desires that are the real issue, rather than some ontological wholeness of the person, to which sexual desire is tertiary at most. Are the desires experienced by people who wish us to call them by their chosen acronym of an alphabet soup such as can be countenanced by people who believe that God created man with a specific intent for those desires? The answer, to thinking humans, is obviously "No".

 

[Invalidusername]

If you loved LGBTQUIAA++(unless they added more letters again) then you wouldn't want to encourage them to continue in an act that angers God. True love would want to spare them from that. Only thing LGBT people need to hear from us is to repent of their actions/desires and seek God's will for their lives.

 

[CodyFaith]

Did it previously have some other stance on this issue?

Oh, no, I meant that in the future it could change potentially (I have no evidence to show for this, it's just a potential in my mind) - I should have been more clear.

 

[Emli]

Oh, no, I meant that in the future it could change potentially (I have no evidence to show for this, it's just a potential in my mind) - I should have been more clear.

Let's all pray and hope that it won't change.

 

[Ken Rank]

I have no say in this, who am I? But unless God has changed, a man laying with a man as he would a woman is still a sin. Now we all sin... but when we KNOW something is against God's will, and we do it anyway, then it isn't sin anymore, it is rebellion.

 

[Southernscotty]

I have no say in this, who am I? But unless God has changed, a man laying with a man as he would a woman is still a sin. Now we all sin... but when we KNOW something is against God's will, and we do it anyway, then it isn't sin anymore, it is rebellion.

Yes Brother you do have a say because you are part of the body of Christ and we should all stand for what is right :]

 

[Invalidusername]

I have no say in this, who am I? But unless God has changed, a man laying with a man as he would a woman is still a sin. Now we all sin... but when we KNOW something is against God's will, and we do it anyway, then it isn't sin anymore, it is rebellion.

I think there are different levels of it. Some people know it's wrong and do it anyways but feel ashamed of it. Those are called the "closet gays". They are ashamed of it so it isn't quite at the rebellion stage yet. They are just entrapped in the lusts of the flesh.

However once they start cross-dressing, "coming out of the closet", and being very public about their sin, that's when it becomes a rebellion/high-handed sin.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

The OP should try to stop spreading hate. lol

The start of this thread makes as much sense as asking pro LGBTQ forums
to have a "acting gay is a sin" area and throw out all their board guidelines.

http://www.firstlutheranec.org/LGBT_ Resources.pdf

 

[CodyFaith]

Let's all pray and hope that it won't change.

Sadly Emli the world is heading into the direction of a liberal (small l) Christianity, one of which Christians may be forced to conform to unbiblical beliefs and viewpoints or face persecution. I've already seen conformity in our churches, most of us have.

God can change the way things are heading, but sometimes he doesn't aswell. I pray for the lack of mixture of our churches and Christian communities with unbiblical beliefs, lgbt being one of them but there are certainly others.

 

[Southernscotty]

Sadly Emli the world is heading into the direction of a liberal (small l) Christianity, one of which Christians may be forced to conform to unbiblical beliefs and viewpoints or face persecution. I've already seen conformity in our churches, most of us have.

God can change the way things are heading, but sometimes he doesn't aswell. I pray for the lack of mixture of our churches and Christian communities with unbiblical beliefs, lgbt being one of them but there are certainly others.

Exactly why we started a church that preaches the bible and truth and are not affiliated with or want anything to do with a 501c3 or anything else. No offense to anyone else but it just isn't for us :]

 

[Ken Rank]

I think there are different levels of it. Some people know it's wrong and do it anyways but feel ashamed of it. Those are called the "closet gays". They are ashamed of it so it isn't quite at the rebellion stage yet. They are just entrapped in the lusts of the flesh.

However once they start cross-dressing, "coming out of the closet", and being very public about their sin, that's when it becomes a rebellion/high-handed sin.

I am not passing judgement on anyone. Sin by definition (in Hebrew) is done in ignorance. So a gay man gives his life to Jesus but hasn't read the bible... he is sinning but it is in ignorance... he is covered. But once the sin is exposed, once he comes to a point where he knows it is sin, to then continue is no longer sin, it is rebellion against God. I would rather stay out of this ( ) but would encourage CF not to allow such a forum. It's bad enough we have as many atheists here as we do.

 

[Emli]

Sadly Emli the world is heading into the direction of a liberal (small l) Christianity, one of which Christians may be forced to conform to unbiblical beliefs and viewpoints or face persecution. I've already seen conformity in our churches, most of us have.

God can change the way things are heading, but sometimes he doesn't aswell. I pray for the lack of mixture of our churches and Christian communities with unbiblical beliefs, lgbt being one of them but there are certainly others.

I know, and I live in a country where the state church celebrates LGBTQ, and there is a lot of persecution of those who don't. But we must still pray and put our trust in God, and never give up.
The Christians who are choosing to let themselves be conformed to those worldly ideals instead of standing up for what God has said is right, good, pure and holy, are selling out. We need to be God's voice in this mess and stand firm in faith and hold firm to truth. God can and will save people and set people free even if it looks hopeless.

 

[FireDragon76]

I would also support this, given that the ministry of LGBT persons is accepted in many of our congregations in the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America.