Fornication and Remarriage

[Open Heart]

Farout told you twice:



What else are you trying to get him to say? Why are you trying to turn it into something different?

What good is "confessing the sin" if we "stay as we are" meaning that we continue in that sin?

 

[RDKirk]

What good is "confessing the sin" if we "stay as we are" meaning that we continue in that sin?

I don't think that's what he meant. I think he meant:

However, each one must live his life in the situation the Lord assigned when God called him. This is what I command in all the churches. Was anyone already circumcised when he was called? He should not undo his circumcision. Was anyone called while uncircumcised? He should not get circumcised. Circumcision does not matter and uncircumcision does not matter, but keeping God’s commands does.

Each person should remain in the life situation in which he was called. Were you called while a slave? It should not be a concern to you. But if you can become free, by all means take the opportunity. For he who is called by the Lord as a slave is the Lord’s freedman. Likewise he who is called as a free man is Christ’s slave. You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of men. Brothers, each person should remain with God in whatever situation he was called. -- 1 Corinthians 7

 

[Joe Green]

I don't think that's what he meant. I think he meant:

However, each one must live his life in the situation the Lord assigned when God called him. This is what I command in all the churches. Was anyone already circumcised when he was called? He should not undo his circumcision. Was anyone called while uncircumcised? He should not get circumcised. Circumcision does not matter and uncircumcision does not matter, but keeping God’s commands does.

Each person should remain in the life situation in which he was called. Were you called while a slave? It should not be a concern to you. But if you can become free, by all means take the opportunity. For he who is called by the Lord as a slave is the Lord’s freedman. Likewise he who is called as a free man is Christ’s slave. You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of men. Brothers, each person should remain with God in whatever situation he was called. -- 1 Corinthians 7

I do not bel

What good is "confessing the sin" if we "stay as we are" meaning that we continue in that sin?

I do not believe in [Once saved always saved]
You used the word, circumcision it is not a sin if a man is circumcised and it
is not a sin if he is not circumcised. Of course this is OT.
The Doctrine of Christ now is the NT.

 

[Yahu_]

Much of your definition of "fornication" is unclear - can only a single person fornicate? There is a fair amount of indication that fornication was intercourse with a prostitute. And another thing about it, I think one verse of scripture definitely indicates adultery is one form of fornication. Only a certain kind of adultery, where one of the persons is single?

Biblically, fornication means 'unlawful intercourse' in Hebrew. It has NOTHING to do with the marital status of a man. Adultery is a subset of fornication because it was unlawful to have intercourse with another man's wife OR betrothed. You have to look at the law for what was 'unlawful'. It is the status of the woman that was already in covenant with another man that made the sex unlawful and both adultery and fornication.

The modern day church has added to the definition of what fornication means. Adding additional rules on top of the actual law was a major problem of the Pharisees. They equated their religious traditions as equal to the actual law.

 

[Joe Green]

Biblically, fornication means 'unlawful intercourse' in Hebrew. It has NOTHING to do with the marital status of a man. Adultery is a subset of fornication because it was unlawful to have intercourse with another man's wife OR betrothed. You have to look at the law for what was 'unlawful'. It is the status of the woman that was already in covenant with another man that made the sex unlawful and both adultery and fornication.

The modern day church has added to the definition of what fornication means. Adding additional rules on top of the actual law was a major problem of the Pharisees. They equated their religious traditions as equal to the actual law.

You used the word Hebrew, We have to look at the Greek & English translation,
the NT. I can tell you are confused, many are.

 

[Open Heart]

You used the word Hebrew, We have to look at the Greek & English translation,
the NT. I can tell you are confused, many are.

inappropriate contenteia also means unlawful intercourse in Greek.

In Judaism, there are three ways a woman can become married to a man: a contract, a gift exchange, or intercourse. If the intercourse turns out to be unlawful, then the man can divorce the woman (or in modern terms we can say the marriage is invalid and can be annulled). IOW, Jesus was raising the exception of invalid marriages.

 

[dayhiker]

I think you will find that it's only modern western Christianity that things inappropriate contenteia also means unlawful intercourse in Greek.

Google Translate

inappropriate contenteia is a Greek work not Hebrew.
The Hebrew word is Zanah.

 

[RDKirk]

I think you will find that it's only modern western Christianity that things inappropriate contenteia also means unlawful intercourse in Greek.

Google Translate

inappropriate contenteia is a Greek work not Hebrew.
The Hebrew word is Zanah.

That's the definition of the word, but what was the use of the word.

According to Webster's dictionary, the use of "cow" is "a bovine creature of any age and either gender." That's how a kid in Manhattan may use the word "cow," but that's not how a kid on a dairy ranch uses the word "cow."

So in the extant Greek literature, how is the word actually used? Is it used exclusively to refer to prostitution, or is it often used more generically to refer to illicit sexual activity? Can you give us some examples?

 

[dayhiker]

Well there are two way to clearly see how scholars around the time the NT was written viewed the meaning of the word. If you read the LXX which was the OT translation into Greek about 200 BC you will see they translated the Hebrew word zanah to the Greek word inappropriate contenteia. So Jewish scholars understood the meaning to be prostitution and used it as such. The other way is to see how Jerome, about 300AD, translated the Greek into Latin. He translated inappropriate contenteia into one of the Latin slang words for prostitution, fornix. You can then follow the usage of the fornix into English in 1303AD as fornication (I forget the exact spelling). If you find a 1600AD (time of the King James translation) Oxford dictionary you will find that meaning listed is prostitution.
Then we find in the Victorian age the meaning change to premarital sex, the meaning I grew up with, and then in the 1950's the translations started to us illicit sex or sexual immorality.

There is the history and the approach one can use to find anything you want to know. I did my work to know how the meanings of the word fornication have been. I invite you to do the same. I find people don't believe me when I tell them the history. But I did 3 years of work to find how to figure which meaning of the word I was going to believe: prostitution, premarital sex or illicit, immoral sex. You will only believe me if you also do the work I did.

OH I spent a lot of time on my grandfather's dairy farm ... We used the word cow for any cow. So at least some people used cow the way the dictionary used it. Also used steer, bull, heffer and calf.

 

[Joe Green]

inappropriate contenteia also means unlawful intercourse in Greek.

In Judaism, there are three ways a woman can become married to a man: a contract, a gift exchange, or intercourse. If the intercourse turns out to be unlawful, then the man can divorce the woman (or in modern terms we can say the marriage is invalid and can be annulled). IOW, Jesus was raising the exception of invalid marriages.

You used the word, Judaism, this is OT. The doctrine of Christ is the NT.
We now live in the dispensation of grace. Here is a good scripture for the
grace dispensation. Read Luke 16:18.

 

[Open Heart]

You used the word, Judaism, this is OT. The doctrine of Christ is the NT.
We now live in the dispensation of grace. Here is a good scripture for the
grace dispensation. Read Luke 16:18.

You can't separate OT and NT on this issue. Jesus is making a direct reference to the Torah in these verses. Thus you cannot understand the Matthew verses without first understanding that Torah Law, which is the specialty of Judaism, Jesus' religion.

 

[Joe Green]

You can't separate OT and NT on this issue. Jesus is making a direct reference to the Torah in these verses. Thus you cannot understand the Matthew verses without first understanding that Torah Law, which is the specialty of Judaism, Jesus' religion.

There is a reason why one book is called the OT and the other one the NT.
The work of the prophets of the OT is finished, however we can learn of the
mistakes of those in the OT. The NT, with overseers, pastors, teachers and
evangelists. The NT is our guide and light Now.

 

[Yahu_]

You used the word Hebrew, We have to look at the Greek & English translation,
the NT. I can tell you are confused, many are.

The original was Hebrew/Aramaic that was translated into Greek. In that case you have to go to the source meaning in the Hebrew, not a broader definition of the Greek translation. Greek wasn't the spoken language of the day in Israel. I am not confused at all. The Greek word used for fornication was a reference to the ritual sexual practices of the pagan worship. What made it 'unlawful' was the pagan worship involved that was spiritual adultery against Yah.

All concepts in the NT are rooted in the OT. That is the foundation the NT is built upon. Of course we should use the Hebrew definitions when the Greek translation has added definitions.

Of course the modern day church adds additional definitions and expands on the actual law of Yah just as the Pharisees did in Yeshua's time. In the case of fornication, they add any sexual contact outside of a church or state recognized marriage ceremony as an invalid definition of fornication.

 

[Yahu_]

There is a reason why one book is called the OT and the other one the NT.
The work of the prophets of the OT is finished, however we can learn of the
mistakes of those in the OT. The NT, with overseers, pastors, teachers and
evangelists. The NT is our guide and light Now.

You seem to forget that there are prophets in the NT as well. The work of prophets is NOT done. Prophet is one of the NT offices in the church.

The NT explains and expands upon the concepts of the OT. Without a proper understanding of the OT, the NT is often misunderstood. Those that refuse to study the OT will come to false conclusions when studying the NT exclusively.

 

[Open Heart]

There is a reason why one book is called the OT and the other one the NT.
The work of the prophets of the OT is finished, however we can learn of the
mistakes of those in the OT. The NT, with overseers, pastors, teachers and
evangelists. The NT is our guide and light Now.

Irrelevant. Jesus quoted an OT passage. In order to understand what Jesus meant you MUST understand the OT passage that he quoted. This is not rocket science.

 

[Joe Green]

I agree God is going to save Israel Again. The time of the Church is almost
finished. It will be at the Rapture. Have you googled Rapture 2023 or Prophecy
2023?

 

[Joe Green]

I agree God is going to save Israel Again. The time of the Church is almost
finished. It will be at the Rapture. Have you googled Rapture 2023 or Prophecy
2023?

The original was Hebrew/Aramaic that was translated into Greek. In that case you have to go to the source meaning in the Hebrew, not a broader definition of the Greek translation. Greek wasn't the spoken language of the day in Israel. I am not confused at all. The Greek word used for fornication was a reference to the ritual sexual practices of the pagan worship. What made it 'unlawful' was the pagan worship involved that was spiritual adultery against Yah.

All concepts in the NT are rooted in the OT. That is the foundation the NT is built upon. Of course we should use the Hebrew definitions when the Greek translation has added definitions.

Of course the modern day church adds additional definitions and expands on the actual law of Yah just as the Pharisees did in Yeshua's time. In the case of fornication, they add any sexual contact outside of a church or state recognized marriage ceremony as an invalid definition of fornication.

I can tell you are very confused, as you use these words, yah and yeshua's.

 

[Yahu_]

I can tell you are very confused, as you use these words, yah and yeshua's.

That isn't confusion but greater knowledge and understanding. So much knowledge in scripture is missed with just using translations. There is a wealth of knowledge just in name meanings derived from the paleo-hebrew word pictures.

Ps 68:4 Sing unto God, sing praises to his name: extol him that rideth upon the heavens by his name JAH, and rejoice before him.

Yah is the Hebrew form of Jah (Germanized).
Hallelujah means 'praise Yah'!
Yah is the short form of Yahweh.

It is your ignorance of the proper usage of Yah that is the issue, not confusion on my part. 'God' isn't a name. Jehovah is a Germanized corruption of the name. The actual pronunciation of YHVH is debated but Yah is the known short form. Nearly every OT prophet has Yah as part of their name like Elijah, ie EliYahu in the Hebrew or Jeremiah/Jerimi-yah, Isa-yah.

Jesus as a name is the corruption of a Greek translation from Iesus. Yeshua is the Hebrew and a more correct translation into English would be Joshua, not Jesus. Names transfered into Greek get modified by the Greek rules like ending with an 's' for masuline names. This is why Elias is used in the NT as the Greek name of Elijah.

So who is the one that is truly confused or just ignorant?

 

[Open Heart]

I agree God is going to save Israel Again. The time of the Church is almost
finished. It will be at the Rapture. Have you googled Rapture 2023 or Prophecy
2023?

Paul writes that ALL Israel shall be saved, not just the Israel from before Christ or the distant future.

 

[Joe Green]

That isn't confusion but greater knowledge and understanding. So much knowledge in scripture is missed with just using translations. There is a wealth of knowledge just in name meanings derived from the paleo-hebrew word pictures.

Ps 68:4 Sing unto God, sing praises to his name: extol him that rideth upon the heavens by his name JAH, and rejoice before him.

Yah is the Hebrew form of Jah (Germanized).
Hallelujah means 'praise Yah'!
Yah is the short form of Yahweh.

It is your ignorance of the proper usage of Yah that is the issue, not confusion on my part. 'God' isn't a name. Jehovah is a Germanized corruption of the name. The actual pronunciation of YHVH is debated but Yah is the known short form. Nearly every OT prophet has Yah as part of their name like Elijah, ie EliYahu in the Hebrew or Jeremiah/Jerimi-yah, Isa-yah.

Jesus as a name is the corruption of a Greek translation from Iesus. Yeshua is the Hebrew and a more correct translation into English would be Joshua, not Jesus. Names transfered into Greek get modified by the Greek rules like ending with an 's' for masuline names. This is why Elias is used in the NT as the Greek name of Elijah.

So who is the one that is truly confused or just ignorant?

You are the one who is confused, JAH is short for Jehovah, our God.
Jesus is God in the flesh , he was nailed on a cross for our sins, that
we might have eternal life. Saints let us pray for this person, that this
person may have eternal life.You need to go to google, put in Jehovah
God, then click on who is Jehovah.


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