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Former evangelical's thoughts on the Rapture and Protestantism in general

Discussion in 'Dispensationalism' started by Emanuel333221, Mar 3, 2017.

  1. Emanuel333221

    Emanuel333221 New Member

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    I found the following comment on Facebook a few days ago. Your thoughts?
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    TL;DR: The rapture is nonsense and protestantism is heretical.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2017
  2. Jack Isaacks

    Jack Isaacks Member

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    That's why I'm Orthodox.

    Glory to Jesus Christ!
     
  3. JacquelineDeane55

    JacquelineDeane55 Newbie

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    I would tell that person that I have never been a rebel in my life (like they suppose everyone has been) and that I don't find rebellion to be attractive like they do. God says rebellion "is as the sin of witchcraft."

    According to the world's standards, I am a very good person because I have never committed a crime in my life.

    And as for the Rapture, it is indeed supported by Scripture, I would tell them to look it up because they are ignorant.

    This is just another ignorant person that hates us Protestants. They obviously don't know the Bible very well otherwise they wouldn't have said that.

    I wouldn't pay any attention to what they have to say in the future.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2017
  4. Tigger45

    Tigger45 Saint Ambrose of Milan Supporter CF Senior Ambassador Angels Team

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    If the Rapture is true someone owes past, present & future martyrs an apology.
     
  5. SeventyOne

    SeventyOne Not my faulty.

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    What do I think?

    1. I think he's right when he states that "Protestantism is the inversion of Catholicism".

    2. I think he doesn't understand the rapture at all. His very first misconception on the subject is the rapture takes the 'good' people but leaves the 'bad'.

    3. I think he's also very condescending and insulting to those who believe in the rapture.
     
  6. Light of the East

    Light of the East Ukrainian Greek Catholic Supporter

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    The only way you can "prove" the so-called "Rapture of the Church" is by torturing the scripture verses in Matthew 24 and 2 Thess. 4 and ignoring the time-indicators in the Sacred Scriptures.

    Jesus said nothing about a "Rapture" in Matthew 24, one of the Rapturists favorite chapters in the NT. What He did talk about was the destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem in AD 70 by the Roman armies of Titus. We see the time indicators in the first three verses of Matthew 24.

    As for 2 Thess 4, the same exactly phrase, "in a twinkling of an eye," appears in the great Resurrection Chapter of 1 Corinthians 15. If one actually reads that whole chapter carefully, and without the presuppositional glasses of Rapturism, one can see that the whole chapter is about the Resurrection of the Dead at the end of time. St. Paul even states in the beginning that he is writing to correct an error in the Church in Corinth - the idea that the Resurrection had already taken place. Rapturists read this and completely miss both context and point of the chapter.
     
  7. SeventyOne

    SeventyOne Not my faulty.

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    So, when God raptures His people, you think He'll owe others an apology? Why would He owe them an apology in your opinion?
     
  8. Adstar

    Adstar Well-Known Member

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    Well since protestantisim is such a wide variety of different beliefs i cannot deal with that question without dealing with specific doctrines and beliefs of specific protestant denominations....

    But Rapture is at lest 3 different doctrines based on different timings..
    Pre-trib Rapture
    Pre-wrath Rapture
    Second comming Rapture

    I believe in the Second comming of Jesus rapture.. This happens on the day of the return of my LORD Jesus Christ.. This is very supportable by scripture..

    I don't think God will have to offer anyone an apology for cathing people up into the air to meet him on the Day of His return.
     
  9. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    The history of the pretrib doctrine speaks for itself.


    PROPHETIC DEVELOPMENTS
    with particular reference to the early Brethren Movement.
    F. Roy Coad (Brethren Historian) pages 10-26
    http://brethrenhistory.org/qwicsitePro/php/docsview.php?docid=418

    Lacunza, Manuel, “Coming of Messiah in Glory and Majesty“
    PDF Files

    Origin of the Pretrib Rapture Doctrine
    Pastor Tim Warner
    http://www.answersinrevelation.org/pretrib_history.pdf

    Pretribulationist Revisionism
    (Grant Jeffrey’s revision of early Church Posttrib viewpoints)
    Pastor Tim Warner
    http://www.answersinrevelation.org/Jeffrey.pdf

    Left Behind or Led Astray?
    Good Fight Ministries
    http://www.leftbehindorledastray.com/


    Anyone who understands the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled in Hebrews 8:6-13, and is specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:18-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, can see the serious errors in John Nelson Darby's Two Peoples of God doctrine.


    The New Covenant: Bob George
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rj7NQffg_NE

    .
     
  10. -57

    -57 Well-Known Member

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    Jesus comes back twice. Acts says the same way He left....in the clouds. That's the rapture.
    The second return Jesus stands on the earth....description of return is in Revelation. Those that were raptured are following Jesus.
     
  11. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    The event is described at the end of 1 Thessalonians chapter 4, and the timing of the event is found at the beginning of chapter 5, on the Day of the Lord, when He comes as a thief.
    Based on 2 Peter 3:10 and Revelation 16:15-16, it is a Second Coming event.


    There is no trip back to heaven found in the text.

    The two events you described above occur on the same day.

    .
     
  12. sdowney717

    sdowney717 Newbie

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    The Day of the Lord has many references in OT and NT, and is the day when Christ returns.
    Yes, the 'rapture' is the same day, the same event.
    Actually the angels gather up the evil unsaved and cast them out of the kingdom.
    So both groups are gathered, saved and unsaved, one unto destruction, and the other into His presence to be with Him forever.
    A good word study is the Day of the Lord, which is the return of Christ and what will happen.
     
  13. Emanuel333221

    Emanuel333221 New Member

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    Someone named James Hartline wrote the following about Michael Glatze AKA Mike Elliott:

    As I learned very quickly early on in my correspondences with Michael Glatze, I cannot get along with a person who is all over the map in his theology and his approach to Christianity. Mr. Glatze simply wants a microphone and wants the floor even when he isn’t qualified to be speaking on a topic. His form of Christianity is a patchwork quilt of superficial ideas that he collects in the same fashion as an antique dealer collects old trinkets. Once he has collected a few trinkets he self-declares himself an expert on that trinket collection without the benefit of having any serious, deep education on the history and the meaning and historical significance of said trinkets.

    In the short time that Glatze has been a self-declared ex-gay Christian he has short-circuited paying the dues that any reputable Christian pastor or evangelist has had to pay, to sacrifice and to suffer, to earn the right to be a God-ordained minister. This is in large part due to the corrupt and media-money-hungry pro-family ministries that are constantly in search of a token ex-gay personality that they can use, abuse and wave vindicatively at the equally corrupt and media-money-hungry radicalized gay political machine that drives the core engine of America’s cultural homosexual movement. Without even considering his lack of dedication to Jesus Christ or the fact that he had zero examples of sacrificing his life for Christianity, the pro-family hucksters baptized Mr. Glatze as their latest professional ex-gay token. It is one more reason why I, as a former homosexual who has been faithfully and very publicly serving Christ inside of one of the largest homosexual communities in the United States for 20 years, cannot be involved in most of the so-called professional pro-family organizational groups. They reek with corruption, superficiality, insincerity, greed and hypocrisy. Which is explains why they all so easily made so many backroom deals with demonic Donald Trump.

    Michael Glatze has gone from Mormonism to Catholicism to implied Buddhism and now the inevitable appeasement and apology tourism that is the infamous trademark of the professional ex-gay movement. The professional ex-gay movement is so utterly superificial in its relationship with Christ and it is their rejection of Christ’s mandate for all Christ-followers to willingly suffer and embrace sacrificial self-denial that defines the never ending hypocrisy of the likes of Alan Chambers, Randy Thomas, John Paulk and now Michael Glatze. They all have one thing in common: the refusal to pick up one’s cross to follow Christ. The narcissism and the sinful, selfish desire to serve and worship self which is at the core of homosexuality and the gay political movement is simply tranferred into the professional ex-gay movement leaders’ lives and therein lies their complete failure to change the culture and to win converts out of homosexuality to follow Christ.

    I attempted to warn Michael Glatze that he was making seriously flawed theological decisions and his beliefs were not sound Biblical ones. He wouldn’t listen. All he wanted to do was “school me” on Christianity and preach at me. I have been following the Lord for decades. My testimony as an ex-homosexual for 20 years who is battling a very famous scientific case of AIDS all the while living – not in some “safe” insulated little conservative town in Wyoming – but inside of the 4th largest gay community in America, has been broadcast all over the world and shared on many TV and news programs including the 700 Club, newspapers, radio show and magazines. I have written hundreds of articles and produced over 60,000 photographs and 400 videos of my life as a born again Christian ex-homosexual living inside of the gay community. Thousands upon thousands of gays see me everyday and how I live my life as a Christian ex-homosexual, and not one of them can ever say they have witnessed me returning to homosexuality. Yet, in all of my communications with Mr. Glatze, he wanted to teach me what Christianity is and isn’t, he wanted to instruct me on “correct” theology. He had no real desire to actually listen or learn from my mistakes, my experiences or my knowledge of God and the Bible. The reality is, he just wants to be the boss, the show and time will eventually unveil a Michael Glatze who never really humbled himself and had a true born again Christian experience. Rather, he simply mutated and adapted to his circumstances in a manner that accomodated his pursuit of self-comfortability – something that seems be disasterously innate in both the professional ex-gay movement and the radicalized gay political movement.
     
  14. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    The OP is nothing but the ravings of two people who have never understood even the basic beginnings of evangelical doctrine. Almost everything the two writers say is not only incorrect, but an inversion of the basic facts of what they are speaking about.

    The REAL difference between Protestantism and Catholicism (and between evangelicalism, which is different from Protestantism) Is not rebellion, but authority.

    The basic, central, question at stake is, what do you take as your ultimate authority. Cathlics take the word of "the church" as their ultimate authority. Protestantism, in its beginnings, was NOT based on rebellion, as the OP falsely states, but on taking the Holy Scriptures as the ultimate authority. This is a basic and essential difference.

    Sadly, the bulk of moderns take their own opinions as their ultimate authority. This, like Catholicism, leads to spiritual disaster.

    If we take anything other than the actual words of God, as we have received them in the Holy Scriptures, as our ultimate authority, our faith is founded on sand, and will surely fail us.
     
  15. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    A lie has popped up again in this thread, about the source of the doctrine of the pre-tribulation rapture. I have personally traced this doctrine down through the ages, and have found a rapture significantly before the time when the Lord comes to judge the world taught in truly ancient times, in the early and late middle ages, and at various other times long before even the birth of the people alleged to be the source of this doctrine.

    But who taught it, and when, is immaterial. The only question that counts is, "what do the scriptures actually say?"

    The hard fact is, that while the scriptures teach that the rapture will happen in such clear language that is is rank unbelief to deny it, they simply do not say when it will happen. ALL theories about when this event will take place are based on interpretation.

    As someone who has studied the scriptures for well over fifty years, I am firmly convinced that the only true interpretation of the time of the rapture is before the beginning of that future time that we have come to call "the tribulation." And I will call everyone who interprets the allpicible scriptures differently, "mistaken," I will not and can not call them "evil." But I have seen many people defend that opinion in evil ways.
     
  16. Danoh

    Danoh Newbie

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    By your same mis-fire; if the 1st Advent was true, Someone owes past, present, and future martyrs an apology....

    Matthew 13:17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.
     
  17. Danoh

    Danoh Newbie

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    Actually, the various views are...

    No Rapture;

    Pre-Trib Rapture;

    Mid-Trib Rapture;

    Pre-Wrath Rapture;

    Post-Trib Rapture.
     
  18. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    And ALL of these views can be argued from scripture, except the "No Rapture" view. That one is rank unbelief, for, although the scriptures never explicitly state the timing of the rapture, they state that it will indeed take place, in words too clear to misunderstand.
     
  19. Danoh

    Danoh Newbie

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    Yep.

    And good to see you are still kickin :)
     
  20. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    I have been very low for a long time. But I am still here. When I had my last surgery and they told me what they found, a doctor told me I had been down to "any day now." But I am slowly getting stronger again.
     
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