Former Catholics

[FaithT]

I’m a former Catholic (though they say if once a Catholic, forever a Catholic). I recently joined the Lutheran LCMS. I was wondering how many Lutherans here are former Catholics?

 

[FaithT]

Also, why did you switch from Catholicism to Lutheranism?

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

I've gone the opposite direction, but as I see it, it was/is a part of my journey towards getting closer to God.
I'm not bad mouthing Lutheranism trust me, as a Lutheran theologian myself I'd have absolutely no interest in that.

I can see the appeal of going to Lutheranism aswell as both Luther and his theological approach is a rather solid one in many ways.
Its simplicity is also something which I fancy.

That being said I'm moving even further into ancient christianity as I'm slowly drifting to the Orthodox church. I'm very much into tradition and the wisdom of the fathers. It suits my mystical hunger within the theology.

I know I'm not the guy that you had hoped answered this thread and I hope I'm not out of place here.


God bless.

 

[FaithT]

I've gone the opposite direction, but as I see it, it was/is a part of my journey towards getting closer to God.
I'm not bad mouthing Lutheranism trust me, as a Lutheran theologian myself I'd have absolutely no interest in that.

I can see the appeal of going to Lutheranism aswell as both Luther and his theological approach is a rather solid one in many ways.
Its simplicity is also something which I fancy.

That being said I'm moving even further into ancient christianity as I'm slowly drifting to the Orthodox church. I'm very much into tradition and the wisdom of the fathers. It suits my mystical hunger within the theology.

I know I'm not the guy that you had hoped answered this thread and I hope I'm not out of place here.


God bless.

No, that’s fine you answered. Merry Christmas!

 

[tampasteve]

I am not LCMS, but I am a former Catholic that is now Lutheran. For me it was wonderful to step into a Lutheran church after going to a Catholic church for so long - the similarities in the service helped make the transition easier. Further deep study has kept me Lutheran, but I still hold a deep respect for the Catholic Church and my time there. There are times I think about regularizing my situation in the Catholic church in case I ever decide to return....but then I look back at the actual theology and why I am Lutheran and have not continued to look at the process of regularizing.

 

[FaithT]

I am not LCMS, but I am a former Catholic that is now Lutheran. For me it was wonderful to step into a Lutheran church after going to a Catholic church for so long - the similarities in the service helped make the transition easier. Further deep study has kept me Lutheran, but I still hold a deep respect for the Catholic Church and my time there. There are times I think about regularizing my situation in the Catholic church in case I ever decide to return....but then I look back at the actual theology and why I am Lutheran and have not continued to look at the process of regularizing.

What theology do you like over the CC and what were your reasons for wanting to make the change?

 

[FaithT]

My reason wasn’t a good reason but I was simply bored at the CC. Too much repetition, homilies I couldnt relate to and old boring music. The Lutheran Church I go to has good, uplifting music and the pastor talks about things I can relate to in my own life.

 

[tampasteve]

What theology do you like over the CC and what were your reasons for wanting to make the change?

Well, it started when I was cheated on by my then-wife and we divorced. At that point I still considered myself Catholic, but I did not go to Mass except a couple of times. Then I drifted away and explored many paths....eventually going to a Lutheran service. Then I studied all that I could, reading the BoC along with other writings by Lutherans.

The theology that really works for me is the Eucharist, Tradition, and primarily Luther's way of explaining theology in a way that just makes sense but does not necessarily take the study to the point of trying to explain everything in a dogmatic way.

I love that the Lutheran tradition can truly be thought of as a correction of the Catholic Church.

The divorce and subsequent remarriage prevents me from being in the Catholic Church without an annulment. The annulment would likely be given due to the circumstances. However, the process is lengthy, would involve dealing with my ex, and honestly should not be needed IMO based on the circumstances. I personally do not agree with the way Francis is leading the church, even if his views actually do align with mine in many ways.

 

[FaithT]

Well, it started when I was cheated on by my then-wife and we divorced. At that point I still considered myself Catholic, but I did not go to Mass except a couple of times. Then I drifted away and explored many paths....eventually going to a Lutheran service. Then I studied all that I could, reading the BoC along with other writings by Lutherans.

The theology that really works for me is the Eucharist, Tradition, and primarily Luther's way of explaining theology in a way that just makes sense but does not necessarily take the study to the point of trying to explain everything in a dogmatic way.

I love that the Lutheran tradition can truly be thought of as a correction of the Catholic Church.

The divorce and subsequent remarriage prevents me from being in the Catholic Church without an annulment. The annulment would likely be given due to the circumstances. However, the process is lengthy, would involve dealing with my ex, and honestly should not be needed IMO based on the circumstances. I personally do not agree with the way Francis is leading the church, even if his views actually do align with mine in many ways.

I like where you said Lutheranism can be thought of as a correction of the CC.
I know very little about Lutheran history. Can you tell me some of these corrections?
For me, the difference in explaining the Eucharist is a biggie. Ever since I learned that Lutherans believe the bread and wine remain while also becoming Jesus’ body and blood made more sense to me than transubstantiation.
Two people, one of my friends and my former priest are disappointed in my decision, with the priest even using the word “upset”. They both insist I can’t get the Eucharist anywhere but the CC.

 

[tampasteve]

I like where you said Lutheranism can be thought of as a correction of the CC.
I know very little about Lutheran history. Can you tell me some of these corrections?

Well, the 95 theses would be a good start! Of course some of those major issues in Luther's time have since been corrected by the CC. However, the doctrines such as relics and indulgences still remain in the CC. Also, the form of the Mass being in the vernacular and trying to get the Liturgy to be more like the ancient church. Although, Vatican II addressed some of these similar issues in the CC. The understanding of Gospel and Faith are different, if subtlety so. The place of the priesthood and who can consecrate the Eucharist is another big difference.

For me, the difference in explaining the Eucharist is a biggie. Ever since I learned that Lutherans believe the bread and wine remain while also becoming Jesus’ body and blood made more sense to me than transubstantiation.

Indeed, I agree.

They both insist I can’t get the Eucharist anywhere but the CC.

Well, that is what they believe, so I can't really hold it against them. I disagree with them, of course.

 

[FaithT]

Well, the 95 theses would be a good start! Of course some of those major issues in Luther's time have since been corrected by the CC. However, the doctrines such as relics and indulgences still remain in the CC. Also, the form of the Mass being in the vernacular and trying to get the Liturgy to be more like the ancient church. Although, Vatican II addressed some of these similar issues in the CC. The understanding of Gospel and Faith are different, if subtlety so. The place of the priesthood and who can consecrate the Eucharist is another big difference.


Indeed, I agree.

Well, that is what they believe, so I can't really hold it against them. I disagree with them, of course.

Where do Lutheran pastors get the ability to consecrate the Eucharist, compared to a Catholic priest?

 

[tampasteve]

Where do Lutheran pastors get the ability to consecrate the Eucharist, compared to a Catholic priest?

Most Lutherans (including LCMS) would believe that anyone can consecrate the Eucharist, but only trained pastors should. So, in dire circumstances where no minister is available a lay person that is called by the congregation can consecrate the Eucharist using the proper forms.

In reality in this day and age most every congregation has a trained minister that went to school in a seminary lasting from 2-4 years or more. The major Lutheran synods all have their own seminaries, but some congregations accept people trained in other seminaries as well. These ministers are called by the congregation to lead them and consecrate the Eucharist. Whether the Eucharist is at every service or not varies by congregation.

Lutherans in general do not believe that the laying of hands at becoming a minister gives one any special ability to consecrate the Eucharist, and in general most USA Lutherans do not believe in Apostolic Succession in the way that the Catholic Church believes it either - indeed the LCMS and WELS do not have an episcopal structure.

 

[FaithT]

Most Lutherans (including LCMS) would believe that anyone can consecrate the Eucharist, but only trained pastors should. So, in dire circumstances where no minister is available a lay person that is called by the congregation can consecrate the Eucharist using the proper forms.

In reality in this day and age most every congregation has a trained minister that went to school in a seminary lasting from 2-4 years or more. The major Lutheran synods all have their own seminaries, but some congregations accept people trained in other seminaries as well. These ministers are called by the congregation to lead them and consecrate the Eucharist. Whether the Eucharist is at every service or not varies by congregation.

Lutherans in general do not believe that the laying of hands at becoming a minister gives one any special ability to consecrate the Eucharist, and in general most USA Lutherans do not believe in Apostolic Succession in the way that the Catholic Church believes it either - indeed the LCMS and WELS do not have an episcopal structure.

So where does the ability to consecrate the Eucharist come from? The Holy Spirit?

 

[FaithT]

I mean if right now I wanted the Eucharist, I couldn’t consecrate it and turn it into Jesus’ body and blood here in my kitchen, so how does the Lutheran church explain it?

 

[tampasteve]

So where does the ability to consecrate the Eucharist come from? The Holy Spirit?

The Holy Spirit

I mean if right now I wanted the Eucharist, I couldn’t consecrate it and turn it into Jesus’ body and blood here in my kitchen, so how does the Lutheran church explain it?

The Augsburg Confession states:

Article V: Of the Ministry.

"That we may obtain this faith, the Ministry of Teaching the Gospel and administering the Sacraments was instituted. For through the Word and Sacraments, as through instruments, the Holy Ghost is given, who works faith, where and when it pleases God, in them that hear the Gospel, to wit, that God, not for our own merits, but for Christ's sake, justifies those who believe that they are received into grace for Christ's sake.

They condemn the Anabaptists and others who think that the Holy Ghost comes to men without the external Word, through their own preparations and works."

Again the Augsburg Confession states:

Article XIV: Of Ecclesiastical Order.

"Of Ecclesiastical Order they teach that no one should publicly teach in the Church or administer the Sacraments unless he be regularly called.
.........
7. Can lay people consecrate the Lord's Supper?

If the choir can consecrate the Lord's Supper why can't the congregation read the words of institution out loud in the church service?

Walther says the lay people should not consecrate the elements of the Lord's Supper. However, if a layman did consecrate the Supper, Walther writes: "No one doubts the administration of the holy Supper by a layman who had been temporarily called by a whole congregation in an emergency, although not ordained, would be valid and legitimate...But in this way the layman is administering it not as layman but as a minister who has been truly called for a time." Page 136.

Again we note that whoever consecrates the Lord's Supper must do so with a call from the congregation. The pastor has no authority to grant the duties of his office to another. Such an action takes the authority to issue a call from the Voters' Assembly.
From THIS ARTICLE​

So, in other words, the person doing the consecration must be called by the congregation, not by the pastor and not by his own actions. So the way I read it, no, you could not consecrate a Eucharist at home as no congregation has called you to do so.

 

[FaithT]

The Holy Spirit

The Augsburg Confession states:

Article V: Of the Ministry.

"That we may obtain this faith, the Ministry of Teaching the Gospel and administering the Sacraments was instituted. For through the Word and Sacraments, as through instruments, the Holy Ghost is given, who works faith, where and when it pleases God, in them that hear the Gospel, to wit, that God, not for our own merits, but for Christ's sake, justifies those who believe that they are received into grace for Christ's sake.

They condemn the Anabaptists and others who think that the Holy Ghost comes to men without the external Word, through their own preparations and works."

Again the Augsburg Confession states:

Article XIV: Of Ecclesiastical Order.

"Of Ecclesiastical Order they teach that no one should publicly teach in the Church or administer the Sacraments unless he be regularly called.
.........
7. Can lay people consecrate the Lord's Supper?

If the choir can consecrate the Lord's Supper why can't the congregation read the words of institution out loud in the church service?

Walther says the lay people should not consecrate the elements of the Lord's Supper. However, if a layman did consecrate the Supper, Walther writes: "No one doubts the administration of the holy Supper by a layman who had been temporarily called by a whole congregation in an emergency, although not ordained, would be valid and legitimate...But in this way the layman is administering it not as layman but as a minister who has been truly called for a time." Page 136.

Again we note that whoever consecrates the Lord's Supper must do so with a call from the congregation. The pastor has no authority to grant the duties of his office to another. Such an action takes the authority to issue a call from the Voters' Assembly.
From THIS ARTICLE​

So, in other words, the person doing the consecration must be called by the congregation, not by the pastor and not by his own actions. So the way I read it, no, you could not consecrate a Eucharist at home as no congregation has called you to do so.

Ok, thanks!

 

[FaithT]

Anyone else?

 

[tampasteve]

Anyone else?

I am sure a few more will trickle in. I personally know more ELCA Lutherans that came from the RCC than LCMS. I think that many RC that leave for a more conservative church tend to lean towards a SSPX, Orthodox or Anglican church like the ACNA. And of course the RCs that leave for a more liberal church tend to land in the Episcopal Church or ELCA.

 

[Tigger45]

Former Catholic non-LCMS Lutheran. Although if we were in search of a new congregation LCMS would be high on our list. My wife coming from a Latino heritage ticked off all of the normal mile markers of growing up in a culturally Catholic household. We were fifty when we ment but by then she was disenchanted with the church. I went from a nominally Catholic household to a full blow Evangelical at thirty years old. Shortly after my wife and I met I seriously started investigating Eastern Orthodoxy for about five years. We both decided that Orthodoxy at that time wasn’t for us but we still wanted a sacramental, liturgical church from an Evangelical perspective.

 

[FaithT]

Former Catholic non-LCMS Lutheran. Although if we were in search of a new congregation LCMS would be high on our list. My wife coming from a Latino heritage ticked off all of the normal mile markers of growing up in a culturally Catholic household. We were fifty when we ment but by then she was disenchanted with the church. I went from a nominally Catholic household to a full blow Evangelical at thirty years old. Shortly after my wife and I met I seriously started investigating Eastern Orthodoxy for about five years. We both decided that Orthodoxy at that time wasn’t for us but we still wanted a sacramental, liturgical church from an Evangelical perspective.

I came from a very Catholic family, was raised Catholic, left the Church in my early 20’s, returned about 13-14 years ago, left again last year. My LCMS Church is contemporary and I love the music and sermons so much more than when I was Catholic. I actually pay attention to what’s going on now.