Former atheist Howard Storm asks about holocaust during his NDE?!

[DennisTate]

His story sounds off. From a Christian theological standpoint, most of those Jews would not be saved and would be going to Hell after the gas chambers, so why are Angels coming for them?

This is perhaps the number one reason why those near death experience accounts are so controversial...… One answer is that Messiah Yeshua - Jesus has been given ALL POWER in heaven and earth......… especially when it comes to judging people......… Paul mentioned... how can they hear without a preacher!

 

[BukiRob]

Are we freethinkers if we consider NDE's and OBE's to be real?

They have nothing to do with the infringement of free will....

 

[yonah_mishael]

I started another poll that may be more to your liking.....

http://www.politicalforum.com/opinion-polls/445248-being-light-nde-fame-g-d-satan.html

Not being a member of that forum, I cannot vote in the poll.

 

[anna ~ grace]

I have no doubt that such visions are real, but am also deeply aware that not all life-changing spiritual experiences which feel enlightening are from God. For a few years I was heavily into Zen style meditation and mantra chanting. Had some amazing visions and experiences. Felt truly mystical and lead by God. But nothing my soul was experiencing had anything to do with the Living God of our Master and Saviour, Christ. It is vital to compare experiences and exercises to Scriptural commandments and Truth. No spiritual practice truly from God causes madness, convulsions, negative changes in one's mood, or suicide.

 

[DennisTate]

Not being a member of that forum, I cannot vote in the poll.

Here we are with the same poll here in ChristianForums.....

http://www.christianforums.com/threads/the-being-of-light-of-nde-fame-g-d-or-satan.7933912/

The being of light of NDE fame, G-d or Satan?

It seems to me that we are in a situation somewhat like the time of the Prophet Elijah.

1Kings 18:21 "And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the LORD be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word."


I began to study these experiences a great deal back in 1990. They immediately made me realize that the "soul sleep" doctrine that I had been taught was almost certainly in error. I got kicked out of two churches due to disagreements mainly over that doctrine. But as a Christian there was no way that I could deny the possibility of people having an "out of the body experience!"

2 Corinthians 12:2 "I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven.
And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth
How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter."

 

[visionary]

You do realize that having NDE and 2 Cor 12:2 are two different things.

 

[DennisTate]

You do realize that having NDE and 2 Cor 12:2 are two different things.

They can be two different things but there is also a possibility that Paul might have been talking about an experience that he may have had when he was stoned...... and appeared to be dead..... at Lystra?

Acts 14:19

"And there came thither certain Jews from Antioch and Iconium, who persuaded the people, and, having stoned Paul, drew him out of the city, supposing he had been dead."

 

[DennisTate]

I have no doubt that such visions are real, but am also deeply aware that not all life-changing spiritual experiences which feel enlightening are from God. For a few years I was heavily into Zen style meditation and mantra chanting. Had some amazing visions and experiences. Felt truly mystical and lead by God. But nothing my soul was experiencing had anything to do with the Living God of our Master and Saviour, Christ. It is vital to compare experiences and exercises to Scriptural commandments and Truth. No spiritual practice truly from God causes madness, convulsions, negative changes in one's mood, or suicide.

Yes..... I have concluded that there is a real difference when a near death experience includes a LIFE REVIEW!

This seems to be part of a covenant between our Creator and us.

Heb 9:27

"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:"


http://www.drbo.org/chapter/30006.htm


6] "For my angel is with you: And I myself will demand an account of your souls."

 

[Hoshiyya]

I keep being amazed at how this NDE stuff keeps being brought up on forums like this.

 

[visionary]

By one person ... ad nauseum

 

[DennisTate]

I keep being amazed at how this NDE stuff keeps being brought up on forums like this.

Of course I could be wrong but at this time I am convinced that these NDE accounts.....(if they include the life review)... fit in with.......

Rev 12:11

And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the wordof their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

 

[DennisTate]

By one person ... ad nauseum

I have made progress with some pretty hard cases in non-Christian forums by quoting from an NDE account..... and then showing later on how what that NDEr saw may help to make the Jewish and Christian scriptures understandable.

So Visionary........... do you believe that Messiah / Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus....... may have had an out of the body experience during his forty days of fasting when he was tempted by Satan?

 

[visionary]

I have made progress with some pretty hard cases in non-Christian forums by quoting from an NDE account..... and then showing later on how what that NDEr saw may help to make the Jewish and Christian scriptures understandable.

So Visionary........... do you believe that Messiah / Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus....... may have had an out of the body experience during his forty days of fasting when he was tempted by Satan?

Anything is possible, but nothing is recorded. Out of body experiences are not subject to death or near death.

 

[DennisTate]

Anything is possible, but nothing is recorded. Out of body experiences are not subject to death or near death.

Actually...... Messiah Yeshua - Jesus would be pretty close to death after forty days of fasting!

Some researchers are inducing out of the body experiences....... (or perhaps they are really NDE's).... in Extreme Gravity jet fighter training devices?!

 

[visionary]

Actually...... Messiah Yeshua - Jesus would be pretty close to death after forty days of fasting!

Some researchers are inducing out of the body experiences....... (or perhaps they are really NDE's).... in Extreme Gravity jet fighter training devices?!

If Yeshua thought it would be important, He would have told of His experiences... but He didn't. I think that is the important point.

 

[DennisTate]

He did say that a time was coming when he would speak plainly of the Father. NDE accounts are easy to understand.

Jhn 16:25

These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father.

 

[visionary]

Listening to their NDE stories doesn't jive with biblical accounts of meeting with God.

 

[Hoshiyya]

Of course I could be wrong but at this time I am convinced that these NDE accounts.....(if they include the life review)... fit in with.......

Rev 12:11

And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the wordof their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Well, I don't see a connection between near-death experiences and the verse you quoted.

 

[Hoshiyya]

Listening to their NDE stories doesn't jive with biblical accounts of meeting with God.

The accounts are completely cultural.

When a Japanese person has a NDE, it matches up with his cultural presumptions about the afterlife and spirit world, and is alien to the Western Christian presumptions and separately it is alien to the Biblical presumptions. Likewise the Western Christian presumptions are distinct from and alien to the Biblical ones.

When a Western person has a vision, it is always stylistically Western. A Catholic has visionary experiences that are in a distinct Catholic style, and a Hindu has visionary experiences of a distinctly Indic kind.

Strange, no?

 

[DennisTate]

The accounts are completely cultural.

When a Japanese person has a NDE, it matches up with his cultural presumptions about the afterlife and spirit world, and is alien to the Western Christian presumptions and separately it is alien to the Biblical presumptions. Likewise the Western Christian presumptions are distinct from and alien to the Biblical ones.

When a Western person has a vision, it is always stylistically Western. A Catholic has visionary experiences that are in a distinct Catholic style, and a Hindu has visionary experiences of a distinctly Indic kind.

Strange, no?

Actually.... it is amazing how many similarities exist between the NDE of somebody in Japan to somebody in North America.

IF........ the being of light who reviews lives with people in Japan.......
eventually is proven to be none other than Messiah Yeshua - Jesus in H-s .... Word / Logos/ I AM form.....
then.... there is really no contradiction whatsoever?!