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Forgiving the gay community

Discussion in 'Christian Philosophy & Ethics' started by IAMABELIEVER1979, Jun 23, 2017.

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  1. IAMABELIEVER1979

    IAMABELIEVER1979 Well-Known Member

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    I am just wondering about something and I could be completely wrong about it.

    First of all, I want to say that I'm not trying to be self-righteous. I myself have issues with forgiveness. I have a hard time forgiving my family, and even the church. But that is my issue. I am working on that.

    I also recognize my own sin. And I know that I have no right to point out the sin of other people because I struggle with my own besetting sins. In fact, I question my Christianity. I don't even call myself a Christian. But I have committed my life to Christ again.

    This is in no way saying how the church is wrong and how the Christians are wrong. I am just trying to understand the mind of the believer.

    We get into major fights when it comes to homosexuality. I understand the scriptures when it says homosexuality is an Abomination to God. I do not argue with that or try to interpret scripture the way that I want to.

    But my question is about forgiveness for the sinner. Should we forgive the gay community instead of feeling bitter towards them? Every time we get into these fights about homosexuality we always bring up the fact that they are the ones who are sueing other Christians. Or we always bring up the fact that they have Gay Pride parades and they're throwing their lifestyle in our face. Or we bring up the transgender bathroom laws.

    These things are not going away. And Jesus said before he died 'father forgive them for they know not what they do.' Shouldn't that be the attitude that Christians have concerning the gay community and the things that they do?

    Gays think that when you denied them service it it is like denying an African American.

    Now I know that that's not the case, but that's how they see it. I honestly don't think they know what they're doing.

    If I am completely wrong let me know. I am trying to not lean on my own understanding.

    Edit: I feel like I need to edit this because some people are accusing me of being this self righteous person.

    I struggle with same-sex attraction. So this is not me pointing out the sins of other homosexuals and ignoring my own sin. I deserve death and Hell. I am not going around saying that homosexuals are abominable and I am not. My lust are just as disgusting and abominable as the sin of homosexuality.

    The sin that I am discussing here is the same sin that I have. I even rejoiced when gays were allowed to get married, which was sin on my part.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2017
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  2. bettercallpaul

    bettercallpaul Full- time Catholic

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    No you're not completely wrong. You have a guilt feeling as do I. You feel conflicted. On the one hand, the Bible clearly states the homosexual act as wrong, on the other hand, scripture asks us to help the maligned and needy on society's fringes. But in many secular circles, we Christians who oppose gay marriage for instance are alienated and put on the fringes.
    Maybe its better not to worry about it, unless we have to deal with it IRL.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2017
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  3. Adstar

    Adstar Well-Known Member

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    We should not hate the sinner.. We should hate the sin.. If a Christian is hating on homosexual people they need to step back and start asking themselves some serious questions...

    But we Christians need to stand up and give a warning to Homosexuals that their sexual practices are an abomination to God and very sinful.. But we also need to tell Homosexuals that sins are forgiven by believing Jesus and trusting in the Atonement Jesus secured for humans to be forgiven.. All humans have their fair share of sins and while we may have opinions on what is a mayor sin and what is a little sin. In truth any sin is enough to see us being cast into the eternal lake of fire because we are dealing with a perfect God who's required passing level is Perfection.. So any sin will see us damned if we do not have the Atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ covering us..

    Jesus only mentioned one sin that was unforgivable and that was blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.. Which the scribes did when they claimed Jesus was doing His miracles by the power of a demon and thus they blasphemed the Holy Spirit by calling the Holy Spirit a demon.. All other sins shall be forgiven those people who believe Jesus and trust 100% in the Atonement Jesus secured for their salvation..

    It is understandable that Christians ( being mere humans with faults ) get very frustrated with gay rights people who are seeking to have homosexual sex acts embraced by society as being acceptable and worthy of celebration.. These people are doing their best to send people to the eternal lake of fire by telling them their homosexuality is just fine and good with God.. While Christians who are giving the homosexuals the truth are actually trying their best to see those homosexuals saved from Gods judgement.. But as far as the general society is concerned it is the gay rights activists who are being nice to homosexuals and the Christians who are being nasty towards the Homosexuals ... This is very frustrating to Christians who really want to see homosexuals saved and have eternal life with God..
     
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  4. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    Abomination means "not natural". In Bible-speak that is usually a very good thing.
    "Out of the ordinary" would be accurate. Normally Christians enjoy the thought
    of being on the narrow path. Jesus says that love is most important.
    So loving homosexuals is a good idea.

    Luke 7:37-50English Standard Version (ESV)

    37 And behold, a woman of the city, who was a sinner, when she learned that he was reclining at table in the Pharisee's house, brought an alabaster flask of ointment, 38 and standing behind him at his feet, weeping, she began to wet his feet with her tears and wiped them with the hair of her head and kissed his feet and anointed them with the ointment. 39 Now when the Pharisee who had invited him saw this, he said to himself, “If this man were a prophet, he would have known who and what sort of woman this is who is touching him, for she is a sinner.” 40 And Jesus answering said to him, “Simon, I have something to say to you.” And he answered, “Say it, Teacher.”

    41 “A certain moneylender had two debtors. One owed five hundred denarii, and the other fifty. 42 When they could not pay, he cancelled the debt of both. Now which of them will love him more?” 43 Simon answered, “The one, I suppose, for whom he cancelled the larger debt.” And he said to him, “You have judged rightly.” 44 Then turning toward the woman he said to Simon, “Do you see this woman? I entered your house; you gave me no water for my feet, but she has wet my feet with her tears and wiped them with her hair. 45 You gave me no kiss, but from the time I came in she has not ceased to kiss my feet. 46 You did not anoint my head with oil, but she has anointed my feet with ointment. 47 Therefore I tell you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven—for she loved much. But he who is forgiven little, loves little.” 48 And he said to her, “Your sins are forgiven.” 49 Then those who were at table with him began to say among themselves, “Who is this (joker) who even forgives sins?”
    50 And he said to the woman,
    “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”

    ( Not "Get your act together" you wretch?)
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2017
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  5. Tigger45

    Tigger45 St Francis Supporter

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    We all fall short of the glory of God. I say lead them Christ and let Him sanctify them.
     
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  6. 4x4toy

    4x4toy Newbie Supporter

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    General George Washington drummed LT Enslin out of his army for homosexual inuendo, He forbid cursing using the Lords name and if it continued , soldiers received lashes 40 for the regulars and 100 for the officers I think .. His reasoning was that if we won the war it would be by Gods hand only .. He did not want to offend but to honor God .. I make mention in prayer at times for their repentance ..If a homosexual repents and asks forgiveness I have no problem, if a homosexual keeps that crap to himself and in private then I shouldn't know , if one parades or solicits one of mine and I know it ,I'll be the one needing forgiveness , ya'll will forgive me , right ? :oldthumbsup:
     
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  7. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You're not perfect, but I think you are getting how you have your own issues to deal with.

    "For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?" (1 Peter 4:17)

    So, whoever is right is getting judged "first" :)

    So, how is it that ones are so busy with judging gays first, and not first so thorough to point out how they themselves are wrong?

    And Hebrews 12:4-11 shows that we who are God's children need to actively seek our Father for His correction . . . for ourselves. And this includes how we need to get corrected of wrong desires and wrong preferences; so we need to apply this to our own selves > God wants our minds to be in the right place, seeking all which is so superior to this world's ways of seeking pleasures and excitements because of trying to avoid feeling bored and lonely.

    If they were not getting pleasure from what they are doing, would they still be doing it???? If someone has preference for pleasure more than seeking God for Himself, one is missing out on so much, plus is likely helping to get other people's attention away from God and how Jesus loves us and desires to personally share with each of us as His family. But impersonal people can use other people for pleasure, and "love" the people they can use for the pleasure they love. But using is not loving.

    So . . . as people break down into seeking pleasure and using people, a culture can get worse. People don't know how to love; this is the main trouble. Have compassion for the finger pointers and anyone who is stuck in using people and things and pets mainly for pleasure. They are missing out on so much. And any of us can still do this, since we still are not perfect :) So, is is wise to get wise to how we ourselves are wrong :)

    Plenty of people calling ourselves Christians can not say no to arguing and complaining (Philippians 2:13-16) and food abuse and unforgiveness and other anti-love things. But we can be very swift to point at someone else.

    But since gays have gone public, they can get the attention. But we can find plenty of other people to point at, too. But all this can keep our attention away from how now our Heavenly Father is easily able to succeed in us.

    So, yes Satan's kingdom will present temptations to abort and pervert our attention to pointing at someone else, so we miss out.

    But if we get real correction of love's perfection (1 John 4:17), God uses our example to reach one another and others. Example wins :)

    "nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." (1 Peter 5:3)

    Lording over includes trying to control other people without their being changed and satisfied by God's love to do something. Jesus wants us to do things because He is personally and deeply blessing and satisfying us to do it > Matthew 11:28-30.

    And we can tell if we are doing God's will. He will keep us in His goodness of love and joy and peace while we do what He really wants. So, in case someone is trying to control gay people, but the person is breaking down in unforgiveness and insecurity and frustration and fits of anger, who has that person under one's power?
     
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  8. rturner76

    rturner76 Senior Veteran Staff Member Red Team - Moderator Supporter

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    Specifically, are you saying you would commit a violent act against a homosexual that attempts to introduce homosexuality to one of your loved ones? I do not believe a homosexual action is the proper way to conduct one's self, however I believe violence is a far greater sin.
     
  9. 4x4toy

    4x4toy Newbie Supporter

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    Believe what you want
    Invite them to your house for fun and games, at my house they better be there for prayer or a rude awakening
     
  10. rturner76

    rturner76 Senior Veteran Staff Member Red Team - Moderator Supporter

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    No I want to believe what you are saying. I don't want to put words in your mouth,it just seemed like the way the phrase was structured, I drew that conclusion I'm wondering how they would be rudely awakened? Would you yell at them? Somehow through intimidation, convince them to no longer be a homosexual? Are you telling me to believe what I want to believe because you don't want to specifically say you would act violently but you want me to draw that conclusion? Violence is surely an option and one that has been used many times. I think that the approach just usually does not turn them away from their homosexual behavior.
     
  11. 4x4toy

    4x4toy Newbie Supporter

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    Ha, If I beat my kids for correction .. And you and your Catholic tradition want to school me on non violence , of course non of that is true. I was born at night but not last night ^_^
     
  12. -V-

    -V- Well-Known Member

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    Forgiveness is great, but you can't really forgive a community that doesn't acknowledge that they're doing anything that needs forgiving. I'm not saying we should treat them with hatred, but you can't really forgive until there is repentance first.
     
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  13. Tigger45

    Tigger45 St Francis Supporter

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    Luke 23:34

    Father forgive them for they know not what they do.
     
  14. IAMABELIEVER1979

    IAMABELIEVER1979 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you very much everyone.
     
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  15. -V-

    -V- Well-Known Member

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    Ok, but there's a context there that shouldn't be ignored.

    Did anyone point out to the Roman guards carrying out the execution that Jesus was innocent? Did the Romans hear them and go, “I don’t care what you say, I’m going to do it anyway.”? And at Matthew 27:54, it suggests that some of them may have, in fact, repented.
     
  16. Kenny'sID

    Kenny'sID Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Exactly.

    1 John 1-9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
     
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  17. Tigger45

    Tigger45 St Francis Supporter

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    Absolutely agree.

    Matthew 27:54

    When the centurion and those with him who were guarding Jesus saw the earthquake and all that had happened, they were terrified, and exclaimed, "Surely he was the Son of God!"
     
  18. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    In the Sermon on the Mount Jesus says that if a man lusts for a woman, already he has committed adultery with her in his heart. So, from this I see that what we do in our hearts is what we have already done.

    So . . . it is wrong to accept and approve a wrong desire or tendency or preference, in our hearts. And so, while we may criticize people for having wrong preferences, we too need to get our Father's correction of any wrong things in our own hearts.

    beauty discrimination

    desire for revenge

    cursing people with our worry, instead of effectively trusting them to God in prayer

    blaspheming God, by criticizing and complaining against His blessing of rain

    feeling entitled to certain people or things, instead of trusting God to decide who and what is for us, and honoring Him by obeying how He says, "be content with such things as you have" (in Hebrews 13:5)

    And there are other things which the Bible shows we need to watch out for, ourselves.
     
  19. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    About if we should forgive people who do not repent . . .

    On Calvary, Jesus desired for us to be forgiven . . . before we were even born or did anything wrong. So, in His heart, already He forgave us, I would think :) But He took action to get us forgiven > we needed to trust in Him so we could benefit from His forgiveness.

    His forgiveness lives in His love. When God forgives someone and reconciles with the person, the person then experiences sharing with God in His love where His forgiveness lives > Romans 5:5. With real forgiving, then, there is reconciliation and even relating as family with one another. So, I see that Jesus was praying for people to be forgiven and adopted to become children of God . . . not only for people to get their record cleared.

    But ones seek forgiveness, and even repent, but they do not submit to God so they can share intimately with Him in His love; but rather they might go on to live the lives they want to live, but maybe reforming themselves about certain things they know God does not want.

    So, we need to prepare in prayer so we are ready in case any wrong person, including any evil and horrible and impossible person in our lives, is changed to become adopted by God to be in our Jesus family.
     
  20. IAMABELIEVER1979

    IAMABELIEVER1979 Well-Known Member

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    I think you are right about that. Actually I know you are right about that. I've committed adultery in my heart. And I do have a tendency to criticize other people. I get angry with the haters when I am hating as well.

    I have a problem with hypocrisy.

    I know that you're not saying that to me. But I am realizing that it is something that I need to work on. I need to take the log out of my own eye first.
     
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