Forgiveness

[food4thought]

Are we required to forgive others in order for us to be saved?

Jesus' teachings seem to indicate that it is so...

Matthew 6:14-15 "For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. (15) "But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.​

and

Matthew 18:21-35 Then Peter came and said to Him, "Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him? Up to seven times?" (22) Jesus *said to him, "I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven. (23) "For this reason the kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who wished to settle accounts with his slaves. (24) "When he had begun to settle them, one who owed him ten thousand talents was brought to him. (25) "But since he did not have the means to repay, his lord commanded him to be sold, along with his wife and children and all that he had, and repayment to be made. (26) "So the slave fell to the ground and prostrated himself before him, saying, 'Have patience with me and I will repay you everything.' (27) "And the lord of that slave felt compassion and released him and forgave him the debt. (28) "But that slave went out and found one of his fellow slaves who owed him a hundred denarii; and he seized him and began to choke him, saying, 'Pay back what you owe.' (29) "So his fellow slave fell to the ground and began to plead with him, saying, 'Have patience with me and I will repay you.' (30) "But he was unwilling and went and threw him in prison until he should pay back what was owed. (31) "So when his fellow slaves saw what had happened, they were deeply grieved and came and reported to their lord all that had happened. (32) "Then summoning him, his lord *said to him, 'You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. (33) 'Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?' (34) "And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him. (35) "My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart."​

Your thoughts are welcome, and any other passages that deal with forgiveness.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I find in application , acting without mercy tends to block off the flow of the Holy Spirit in my life. This is how I interpret the parable, it may relate to salvation, but would I want to find out? I kind of like the intimacy with God thing too much to find out.

 

[Neostarwcc]

I do believe that forgiveness is required to be saved. However I also believe that every Christian will naturally forgive others as they're being carried through their lives by the Holy Spirit.

 

[food4thought]

I find in application , acting without mercy tends to block off the flow of the Holy Spirit in my life. This is how I interpret the parable, it may relate to salvation, but would I want to find out? I kind of like the intimacy with God thing too much to find out.

I agree. Do you think the person who sinned needs to repent in order for me to forgive them?

Luke 17:3-4 "Be on your guard! If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him. (4) "And if he sins against you seven times a day, and returns to you seven times, saying, 'I repent,' forgive him."​

 

[food4thought]

I do believe that forgiveness is required to be saved. However I also believe that every Christian will naturally forgive others as they're being carried through their lives by the Holy Spirit.

I tend to agree. As I asked Michael, do you think they must repent in order for us to forgive them?

 

[Jonaitis]

It is good to cross reference other places to shed light here. I found 1 John 3:15 helpful:

"Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him."

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I agree. Do you think the person who sinned needs to repent in order for me to forgive them?

Luke 17:3-4 "Be on your guard! If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him. (4) "And if he sins against you seven times a day, and returns to you seven times, saying, 'I repent,' forgive him."​

It depends what you mean by forgive.

There are healthy boundaries in God's definition of love in the scriptures.

If there is abuse and the abuse continues, there's nothing to forgive, in the same way that I love my neighbour, I must love myself.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

The best way to show forgiveness for someone who has wronged us and may be still wronging us without repentance, would be to pray for their salvation every time we think of them.

 

[food4thought]

It is good to cross reference other places to shed light here. I found 1 John 3:15 helpful:

"Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him."

So you equate unforgiveness with hatred... I see the correlation. One cannot love someone if they hold bitterness and resentment against them.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I've found forgiving to the point of being a ragged door mat in the past, resulted in an order where turning the other cheek was being used an offensive weapon. Knowing what will happen, it's not loving of me to heap burning coals on their heads. I've seen it happen, not the world I want to create with God.

 

[food4thought]

It depends what you mean by forgive. [

There are healthy boundaries in God's definition of love in the scriptures.

If there is abuse and the abuse continues, there's nothing to forgive, in the same way that I love my neighbour, I must love myself.

Good points. I believe forgiveness is essential and non-negotiable, but we cannot reconcile a relationship unless there is repentance. But is it possible to forgive without restoring the relationship?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Good points. I believe forgiveness is essential and non-negotiable, but we cannot reconcile a relationship unless there is repentance. But is it possible to forgive without restoring the relationship?

It definitely is, it's just more difficult since all of creation is interconnected kind of like how the trinity is. This especially becomes more difficult in the faith since Jesus prayed that we all be one like He and the Father are.

 

[food4thought]

all of creation is interconnected kind of like how the trinity is.

Could you explain what you mean by that?

 

[Neostarwcc]

I tend to agree. As I asked Michael, do you think they must repent in order for us to forgive them?

No forgiveness just comes naturally to a Christian. Although repentance helps. But lets say for example that somebody killed your wife and showed no remorse. It might take a while but eventually a Christian will forgive the sin. Because the Holy Spirit will say to them "I know this person deeply wronged you but please forgive them" and slowly the Holy Spirit will work forgiveness in their heart.

You see just about every sin being forgiven by Christians where most other people will not forgive. Whether that sin be constant lying, murder, molestation ...etc. There is no sin that is outside of Gods forgiveness or our forgiveness. It just takes a REALLY long time sometimes. Depending how much the particular sin has wronged us. Am I making sense?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Could you explain what you mean by that?

When Adam sinned, all of creation was cursed with sin.

When judgments were pronounced on Israel, the animals and landscape are also affected as part of the judgment.

there are other parallels, but those are the most simple.

I recall also a proverb that says even the king is served from the field.

 

[Kenny'sID]

I believe it's as in the OP, we do have to forgive in order to be saved.

My question has always been, does someone need to ask our forgiveness. For me I find it very easy to forgive the worst of things if I get a heartfelt request to do so, as a matter of fact, I'm chomping at the bit to forgive in that case.

On the other hand, I find it nearly, if not impossible if someone, say, steals something from me, and has no intention of giving it back, making it kind of a ongoing thing. Then being arrogant/cocky about it on top of that.

God asks that we ask him for forgiveness, are we better than God to be expected to forgive without being asked?

Both slaves in the OP's scripture asked/pleaded for forgiveness.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Could you explain what you mean by that?

More complex relationships are in passages that say the intent to sin, is the same as doing the act. (Matthew 5:28, 1 John 3:15)

 

[Anthony2019]

Jesus said "Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother or sister has something against you, leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to them; then come and offer your gift".

In our church, prior to taking Holy Communion,we are instructed to show one another a sign of peace. This is more than a handshake or simply saying "peace be with you" - it is a process of reconciliation and forgiveness where we forgive others and put our hearts right before God. It is not an option, but an absolute requirement - as the scripture says "whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner, shall be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord".

So I would say that forgiveness of others is an absolute requirement for having a Christian faith.

 

[HTacianas]

Are we required to forgive others in order for us to be saved?

Jesus' teachings seem to indicate that it is so...

Matthew 6:14-15 "For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. (15) "But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.​

and

Matthew 18:21-35 Then Peter came and said to Him, "Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him? Up to seven times?" (22) Jesus *said to him, "I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven. (23) "For this reason the kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who wished to settle accounts with his slaves. (24) "When he had begun to settle them, one who owed him ten thousand talents was brought to him. (25) "But since he did not have the means to repay, his lord commanded him to be sold, along with his wife and children and all that he had, and repayment to be made. (26) "So the slave fell to the ground and prostrated himself before him, saying, 'Have patience with me and I will repay you everything.' (27) "And the lord of that slave felt compassion and released him and forgave him the debt. (28) "But that slave went out and found one of his fellow slaves who owed him a hundred denarii; and he seized him and began to choke him, saying, 'Pay back what you owe.' (29) "So his fellow slave fell to the ground and began to plead with him, saying, 'Have patience with me and I will repay you.' (30) "But he was unwilling and went and threw him in prison until he should pay back what was owed. (31) "So when his fellow slaves saw what had happened, they were deeply grieved and came and reported to their lord all that had happened. (32) "Then summoning him, his lord *said to him, 'You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. (33) 'Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?' (34) "And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him. (35) "My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart."​

Your thoughts are welcome, and any other passages that deal with forgiveness.

Yes, we are required to forgive others as a condition of our own forgiveness. Jesus said again:

Mat 5:23 - Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee

Mat 5:24 - Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift

It is repeated in the Didache:

But let none who has a quarrel with his fellow join in your meeting until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice be not defiled.

It is in modern times part of preparation for communion in the Orthodox Church:

...and making things right with those whom we have wronged and asking forgiveness.

Guidelines for Holy Communion

 

[food4thought]

No forgiveness just comes naturally to a Christian. Although repentance helps. But lets say for example that somebody killed your wife and showed no remorse. It might take a while but eventually a Christian will forgive the sin. Because the Holy Spirit will say to them "I know this person deeply wronged you but please forgive them" and slowly the Holy Spirit will work forgiveness in their heart.

You see just about every sin being forgiven by Christians where most other people will not forgive. Whether that sin be constant lying, murder, molestation ...etc. There is no sin that is outside of Gods forgiveness or our forgiveness. It just takes a REALLY long time sometimes. Depending how much the particular sin has wronged us. Am I making sense?

You make perfect sense, and I agree.