Forgiveness & Grace

[Unofficial Reverand Alex]

"When you stand to pray, forgive anyone against whom you have a grievance, so that your heavenly Father may in turn forgive you your transgressions.” --Mark 11​

I have a Philosophy class that uses an online discussion board. Below, I'll copy/paste the question & my response; I particularly want non-Christian views, as I directly reference certain non-Christian views of grace & forgiveness. And the picture I attached below I used on the discussion board; it's a little hard to read the text, but if you can, it's a great summery of Pope John Paul II's forgiveness of a man that tried to kill him.

Week 9 Discussion
In Module Two we analyzed the writings of arguably the two greatest writers in the history of Christian thought, St. Augustine and St Thomas Aquinas. In the classic understanding of grace in Christianity, one essentially gets a reward or unmerited gift when in fact one deserves exactly the opposite. Think of times when you "had it coming" for something you had done that was clearly wrong. Have there been times when the party wronged actually forgave you? What impact did it have on you? And what about the reverse situation? Feeling hurt and anger, somehow you were able to let go of the feelings and forgive instead of seeking "paybacks." Was it easy or difficult? What finally did or did not enable you to forgive?

My response...

When I was a kid, I'd do things that weren't allowed, but I wouldn't get in very much trouble if company was around; for example, if the grandparents were in the house, Mom would very quietly & angrily whisper, "You better be glad Grandma & Grandpa are here!" While I don't think this counts as forgiveness in the Christian sense of grace, it still made me feel like I maybe shouldn't do what I did, for sake of not doing it, instead of wanting to avoid punishments. (I made it into somewhat of a game when I was a kid, seeing how much I could get away with before getting caught; yeah, I wasn't the best at home!).

The point is, obedience for sake of avoiding punishment is limited, and didn't actually make me want to follow the rules; obedience when Grandma was around let me see how much smoother things went & happier my parents were. Without the fear of the leather strap, I saw more of the point of following the rules; I began to understand that the rules actually had a purpose, and it really was better for me to follow them. Not saying that I always did...but the point was made!

On a much heavier note, what comes to mind when I think of being the one to forgive is all the investment I have in human trafficking. Delving into the evils of humanity has been quite the shaker of my faith, even to the point where I could not answer why I still believed in God; I just concluded that faith is a gift. Sometimes, it's not something you can muster, it's just something that's there for reasons I can't comprehend. My head was swimming in all that I'd been reading & writing & talking about, with the modern slave trade, inappropriate contentography's connection with sexual assault & human trafficking, one of my closest female friends almost being raped, and so on.

For me, I haven't been "wronged" in any drastic way. My forgiveness is more abstract, forgiving people I've never met for crimes that I haven't seen. The closest I've come to being wronged was the guy who tried to rape my friend; I didn't know him, but he was another guy at my last college that I'd seen a few times, and as much as I didn't want to do it, I held the door for him once. It was a small gesture, something I do quite habitually; but for me, this was a much bigger than it was for him. He had no idea that I knew what he tried to do to my friend; I honestly wanted to kill him, but I knew that wouldn't solve anything, and with the faith that I don't know why I still had, I knew that forgiving him was the best way to let anything good come out of this awful situation. Whether or not I forgave him meant nothing to him; he didn't know I knew anything about him or what he did. But it made a world of difference in myself; opening the door for him broke apart some of the bitterness I held towards him, and afterwards I just felt stupid if I would damage my own mental health by holding anything against him.

Now certainly, even if I did forgive him (which I'm not sure if I ever fully did, but in unpleasant states of mind it's hard to tell), I still wouldn't trust him around anyone, and I certainly don't want him to still be the spokesman for my last college's "Take Back the Night". "Forgive and forget" seems like a very dangerous thing to do, and I've heard non-Christians talk badly of the Christian call to forgiveness because they think that forgiveness means completely forgetting the evil someone did, and having no punishment, no jail, no repercussions. That's not what grace & forgiveness is about; it's about releasing hatred from your heart, mind, and soul, and putting the wrongdoer in God's care; He can do far better than I can, anyway.

 

[ChristopherHays]

Non Christian perspective here

Last winter a man came up to me at a gas station around 1am. He said he was gathering change for a bus ticket home that left the following morning. I asked him if he had somewhere to stay that night and if he’d eaten anything... after talking to him for a while I felt he was genuine enough to offer a ride and a meal. Long story short, I fed him and drove him two towns over. We had a very pleasant conversation on the way and he was extremely grateful. When we got there, he put a knife if my side and stole my phone, wallet, watch, backpack, and computer.

I admit I was very stupid... but there are people in this world who would stab their best friend in the back if it got them ahead. Those people deserve appreciate prosecution, prison, judgement... whatever you want to call it. It’s our moral responsibility to protect the good by controlling the bad. Forgiveness may be part of the healing process for some people, but it shouldn’t get in the way of justice.

grace and forgiveness in a biblical sense were big contributors to me leaving Christianity. There is no justice for anyone in Christianity. It doesn’t matter if that man stabbed me after I gave him a ride, I’d wouldn’t light him on fire and call it justice. There is no finite crime that could ever justify infinite torture. God is not a just god if humans go to hell. It’s not just bad people who go to hell either. I’m going to hell even though I go out of my way to help complete strangers... but if that man accepts Jesus on death row after a triple homicide, God will invite him in with open arms. That’s not justice.

there’s not one person alive today who would tell you I’m a bad man. Not one person would testify against me for the smallest of crimes. Yet God will throw me into a pit of fire because I don’t believe something HE NEVER GAVE ANY EVIDENCE FOR? it’s nonsense.

 

[zephcom]

"When you stand to pray, forgive anyone against whom you have a grievance, so that your heavenly Father may in turn forgive you your transgressions.” --Mark 11​

I have a Philosophy class that uses an online discussion board. Below, I'll copy/paste the question & my response; I particularly want non-Christian views, as I directly reference certain non-Christian views of grace & forgiveness. And the picture I attached below I used on the discussion board; it's a little hard to read the text, but if you can, it's a great summery of Pope John Paul II's forgiveness of a man that tried to kill him.

Week 9 Discussion
In Module Two we analyzed the writings of arguably the two greatest writers in the history of Christian thought, St. Augustine and St Thomas Aquinas. In the classic understanding of grace in Christianity, one essentially gets a reward or unmerited gift when in fact one deserves exactly the opposite. Think of times when you "had it coming" for something you had done that was clearly wrong. Have there been times when the party wronged actually forgave you? What impact did it have on you? And what about the reverse situation? Feeling hurt and anger, somehow you were able to let go of the feelings and forgive instead of seeking "paybacks." Was it easy or difficult? What finally did or did not enable you to forgive?

My response...

When I was a kid, I'd do things that weren't allowed, but I wouldn't get in very much trouble if company was around; for example, if the grandparents were in the house, Mom would very quietly & angrily whisper, "You better be glad Grandma & Grandpa are here!" While I don't think this counts as forgiveness in the Christian sense of grace, it still made me feel like I maybe shouldn't do what I did, for sake of not doing it, instead of wanting to avoid punishments. (I made it into somewhat of a game when I was a kid, seeing how much I could get away with before getting caught; yeah, I wasn't the best at home!).

The point is, obedience for sake of avoiding punishment is limited, and didn't actually make me want to follow the rules; obedience when Grandma was around let me see how much smoother things went & happier my parents were. Without the fear of the leather strap, I saw more of the point of following the rules; I began to understand that the rules actually had a purpose, and it really was better for me to follow them. Not saying that I always did...but the point was made!

On a much heavier note, what comes to mind when I think of being the one to forgive is all the investment I have in human trafficking. Delving into the evils of humanity has been quite the shaker of my faith, even to the point where I could not answer why I still believed in God; I just concluded that faith is a gift. Sometimes, it's not something you can muster, it's just something that's there for reasons I can't comprehend. My head was swimming in all that I'd been reading & writing & talking about, with the modern slave trade, inappropriate contentography's connection with sexual assault & human trafficking, one of my closest female friends almost being raped, and so on.

For me, I haven't been "wronged" in any drastic way. My forgiveness is more abstract, forgiving people I've never met for crimes that I haven't seen. The closest I've come to being wronged was the guy who tried to rape my friend; I didn't know him, but he was another guy at my last college that I'd seen a few times, and as much as I didn't want to do it, I held the door for him once. It was a small gesture, something I do quite habitually; but for me, this was a much bigger than it was for him. He had no idea that I knew what he tried to do to my friend; I honestly wanted to kill him, but I knew that wouldn't solve anything, and with the faith that I don't know why I still had, I knew that forgiving him was the best way to let anything good come out of this awful situation. Whether or not I forgave him meant nothing to him; he didn't know I knew anything about him or what he did. But it made a world of difference in myself; opening the door for him broke apart some of the bitterness I held towards him, and afterwards I just felt stupid if I would damage my own mental health by holding anything against him.

Now certainly, even if I did forgive him (which I'm not sure if I ever fully did, but in unpleasant states of mind it's hard to tell), I still wouldn't trust him around anyone, and I certainly don't want him to still be the spokesman for my last college's "Take Back the Night". "Forgive and forget" seems like a very dangerous thing to do, and I've heard non-Christians talk badly of the Christian call to forgiveness because they think that forgiveness means completely forgetting the evil someone did, and having no punishment, no jail, no repercussions. That's not what grace & forgiveness is about; it's about releasing hatred from your heart, mind, and soul, and putting the wrongdoer in God's care; He can do far better than I can, anyway.
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Christians work overtime to make forgiveness complicated. It isn't complicated at all.

When someone does something to you that is bad -they- create an emotional and spiritual connection with you. That connection keeps your focus on them and not on what your life should be.

Revenge (doing something bad back to them) simply creates another emotional and spiritual connection that runs from you to them. That only serves to draw the two people closer together emotionally and spiritually.

Forgiveness cuts that connection and allows the person who wronged you to drift away. They no longer have the ability to demand your attention.

Regardless of how one views Christianity, Jesus was teaching something which all humans should learn and understand. It does not require a religion or even a belief in God. The fundamental issue is that you can cut the connection between you and someone who has wronged you with forgiveness. YOU cannot cut the connection with someone YOU wronged...they are the only ones who can cut that connection.

The pathway to emotional and spiritual happiness is to create only loving connections with others and cut (forgive) the negative connections others create with you.