Forcibly removed by Cesaerean...

[Kylie]

The answer is right there. It's all about choice. Those who are pro-abortion claim they are pro-choice. If that is really honestly true, then I expect those people to be the most upset about this as well - seeing as how they completely obliterated this woman's ability to choose how to deliver her child.

I don't think so. By this logic you can relate any situation where choice is lacking as being abortion related.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

I don't think so. By this logic you can relate any situation where choice is lacking as being abortion related.

No. "Choice" deals specifically with a woman's body.

 

[Billnew]

Thats just the airline - why wasn't she on maternity leave from her job?

Why would you take time off before birth unless some complication? Stop the normal routine because your tired will most likely increase the weight gain of the mother.
Most parents don't have enough time after the Babies born, getting use to the routine and getting up with the baby at night.

I don't think anyone at all will know the detailed facts of this case to make any kind of well informed judgement. So I'll just leave it at that.

Paid maternity leave should be mandated unless self employed.

In the US, parents get 12 weeks maternity leave...unpaid. If you want it paid, save up vacation time.
How much time away from work can a parent get in one year?
I don't understand the idea that a employer should pay someone to not work, more then standard vacation.

With our system, the parent could be away from work 3.5 months, maybe 4 months. 12 weeks maternity and 2-4 weeks vacation. Thats 1/3 of the year that a job doesn't get done or that other workers do the job for them.

So I guess a new parent should get paid maternity leave then get paid vacation/holiday above that?
I fully support an employer that offers paid maternity leave as a benefit to working for them, thats their right. But to force everyone to pay it seems like excessive government control.

 

[Oafman]

Why would you take time off before birth unless some complication? Stop the normal routine because your tired will most likely increase the weight gain of the mother.
Most parents don't have enough time after the Babies born, getting use to the routine and getting up with the baby at night.


In the US, parents get 12 weeks maternity leave...unpaid. If you want it paid, save up vacation time.
How much time away from work can a parent get in one year?
I don't understand the idea that a employer should pay someone to not work, more then standard vacation.

With our system, the parent could be away from work 3.5 months, maybe 4 months. 12 weeks maternity and 2-4 weeks vacation. Thats 1/3 of the year that a job doesn't get done or that other workers do the job for them.

So I guess a new parent should get paid maternity leave then get paid vacation/holiday above that?
I fully support an employer that offers paid maternity leave as a benefit to working for them, thats their right. But to force everyone to pay it seems like excessive government control.

The problem with leaving paid parental leave to the discretion of employers, is that most of them won't offer it. Only 16% of US employers do.

There are very strong arguments for supporting parents financially during pregnancy and after childbirth. These are economic arguments, as well as social and ethical.

Without going into them here, I'll just point out the often referred to, but nonetheless telling fact, that only 3 countries, out of 181 surveyed across the world by Harvard, do not require any paid parental leave: they are the US, Swaziland and Papua New Guinea

Incidentally, we should be talking about parental leave, not maternity leave. Dads should play an active role in starting a family, beyond simply that of conception. If you believe in the idea of a family unit being the best support for children, I'm sure you'll agree

 

[FreeSpirit74]

In the US, parents get 12 weeks maternity leave...unpaid. If you want it paid, save up vacation time.
How much time away from work can a parent get in one year?
I don't understand the idea that a employer should pay someone to not work, more then standard vacation.

With our system, the parent could be away from work 3.5 months, maybe 4 months. 12 weeks maternity and 2-4 weeks vacation. Thats 1/3 of the year that a job doesn't get done or that other workers do the job for them.

So I guess a new parent should get paid maternity leave then get paid vacation/holiday above that?
I fully support an employer that offers paid maternity leave as a benefit to working for them, thats their right. But to force everyone to pay it seems like excessive government control.

My employer's policy is thus: If the requesting employee's job duties can reasonably be covered by part-time employees or by shifting responsibilities to other full-time, up to 6 months of maternity leave may be granted.

Employees on maternity leave may use accumulated leave credits (vacation, sick, personal). The company will pay the normal contribution to health insurance for 3 months from the employee's last working day.

The employee must give the company at least 3 months advance notice of the date they anticipate leaving and thedate they will return.

IOW, where I work, maternity leave is only paid as long as the "paid time off" holds out.

We get 40 hours of Long-Term Sick Time on our hire date anniversary (up to 12 weeks-worth), 40 hours of Personal Time every July 1 (and we lose whatever unused Personal we were given on the previous July 1), and we accrue Vacation Time every week when our paycheck is at least 32 hours (all but two employees here are Fulltime): Year 1: .77 hours/week; Years 2-9: 1.85 hours/week, Year 9 and up: 2.77 hours/week, and Vacation is capped at 200 hours, because you get paid for unused Vacation Time when you leave the company.

Incidentally, I'm the only woman in this company still under the age of 40, and my biological clock never had its motor installed.

 

[Kylie]

No. "Choice" deals specifically with a woman's body.

Only in a very limited definition of "choice"...

 

[PreachersWife2004]

Only in a very limited definition of "choice"...

Well, yes. That's why I put it in quotation marks.

 

[revanneosl]

Only in a very limited definition of "choice"...

Well, yes. That's why I put it in quotation marks.

That's why I posted the whole list of things that I posted to this thread before. It's really very obvious when you start looking at it.

Please name for me three (3) instances in the past year of the State (the legislature, the courts, the police, whatever) interfering with a man doing whatever he desires to do with his body, which doesn't effect another person.

"Choice" is only a problem in our society when it is women doing the choosing. More specifically when it is pregnant women doing the choosing.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

That's why I posted the whole list of things that I posted to this thread before. It's really very obvious when you start looking at it.

Please name for me three (3) instances in the past year of the State (the legislature, the courts, the police, whatever) interfering with a man doing whatever he desires to do with his body, which doesn't effect another person.

"Choice" is only a problem in our society when it is women doing the choosing. More specifically when it is pregnant women doing the choosing.

Laws determine when someone can drive, when they can drink, when they can smoke. A man isn't the one who has the baby, but boy is he on the hook even if he doesn't want the baby. Don't crow to me about choice until women stop going after child support when their baby-daddy doesn't want the child. It takes two to tango and women seem to forget that.

Anyway, we're getting off track. I'm just a little surprised that people aren't actually horrified at this and that there's some thinking that the doctors were justified in drugging her and performing a very invasive and dangerous procedure on her.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

God help anyone who suffers from mental issues.

Caesarean case mother: 'I'm suffering like an animal' - Telegraph

 

[revanneosl]

PreachersWife2004 I've been agreeing with you this whole time.

I am absolutely horrified at the fact that they drugged her and cut her open.

I simply see it as part of a larger social phenomenon, in which women's bodies are viewed as somehow being less sovereign than men's bodies.

In 1963 my mom asked for a tubal ligation, because she'd had all the children she wanted to have. Her doctor said that he'd have to talk to my dad first.

Nothing much has changed.

 

[mpok1519]

Most of my jobs have had it. However, the timing was off with the three pregnancies - for two of them I was working for a temp agency and the last one I hadn't been employed by the company long enough to qualify.

Yeah there is usually a tenure for those types of benefits.

 

[MyOwnSockPuppet]

I am absolutely horrified at the fact that they drugged her and cut her open.

I simply see it as part of a larger social phenomenon, in which women's bodies are viewed as somehow being less sovereign than men's bodies.

If she was sufficiently unwell that she couldn't give consent to the c-section, and the medical reason for requesting permission to do it from the courts by the Health Authority (entirely separate from Social Services) was sufficiently pressing then I'd imagine that the potential consequences for not intervening might well involve a pine box.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

If she was sufficiently unwell that she couldn't give consent to the c-section, and the medical reason for requesting permission to do it from the courts by the Health Authority (entirely separate from Social Services) was sufficiently pressing then I'd imagine that the potential consequences for not intervening might well involve a pine box.

There hasn't been any mention of health issues that called for the c-section. C-sections should ONLY be done in a case of emergency, especially when we're talking about someone who can't give consent. They pretty much condemned her to more c-sections if she has more children.

 

[MyOwnSockPuppet]

There hasn't been any mention of health issues that called for the c-section. C-sections should ONLY be done in a case of emergency, especially when we're talking about someone who can't give consent. They pretty much condemned her to more c-sections if she has more children.

There has been, it just hasn't made the headlines: Essex County Council responds to interest in story headlined "Essex removes baby from mother"

Five weeks later it was the Health Trust's clinical decision to apply to the High Court for permissions to deliver her unborn baby by caesarean section because of concerns about risks to mother and child.

 

[Hetta]

Again, waiting for the full story would seem to be a smart choice. The story given so far is the woman's side of events.

 

[revanneosl]

Again, waiting for the full story would seem to be a smart choice. The story given so far is the woman's side of events.

Why don't you want to belieeeve teh wimmenz Hetta?!?!!?!?one1!?

 

[Hetta]

Why don't you want to belieeeve teh wimmenz Hetta?!?!!?!?one1!?

LOL. I think all we hear right now is the lawyer and the journalist's spin on the situation. I don't have a tremendous amount of respect for either of the above. I like facts.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

Facts in the news seem to be in short abundance these days.

 

[revanneosl]

Here's a little more info.