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For those wondering what "macroevolution" actually is...

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Astrid

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Job 33:6

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Buzzard3

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Astrid

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Meyer is not a YEC. I am one of his fans and have one of his books.
I didnt say he was.
I was suggesting one not assume things.

So you are a fan.
Have you read any of his published work
on intelligent design in peer reviewed
scientific literature?
 
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Job 33:6

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What do you think of the discovery institute?

Hm. What do I think of them.

Well, when it comes to creationism, there's a fine line between earnest faith based beliefs, and intellectual dishonest abuse of topics of science. It's like asking what I think of Ken Ham. Some days he comes off as a complete con artist, but then other days he comes off as someone who sincerely believes what he preaches, despite it sounding crazy.

And there's a spectrum there. With YECism, OECism, ID, and TE. Because of the generally mysterious nature of God or of existence, naturally there's just a lot of variety of theological views, including things like atheism and agnosticism. Personally, I think that within Christianity, theistic evolution is the only decent option with respect to being perfectly honest about scientific topics. Simply because TE doesn't really have any theological limits for what science says.

So, I guess for ID, I'd have to say, it has a mild form of dishonesty wrapped into earnest belief, and there's history with cdesign proponentists and some dishonest approaches by IDers in that regard.

So they can't really be trusted. And I think Meyer in particular takes a pretty dishonest approach to paleontology as well.

But at the end of the day, for them, honesty doesn't really matter. Like in the court of law, lawyers make arguments in favor of things, not necessarily because it's right or wrong, but because that's what their career falls upon. Criminals can go free with good lawyers who make good arguments. And that's what Meyer does. He makes arguments, he sells books, he makes a salary, perhaps he goes to church afterwards and feels as though he's doing God's work, and that's good enough for him.
 
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AV1611VET

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So, I guess for ID, I'd have to say, it has a mild form of dishonesty wrapped into earnest belief, and there's history with cdesign proponentists and some dishonest approaches by IDers in that regard.
Indeed.

I get on the IAU's case for rigging a vote to demote Pluto.

And by the same token, I get on ID's case about that cdesign proponentist fiasco.

Shame on them ... and I'm glad they got caught.

I've never been a fan of ID myself.

I prefer the term "creationism" or "creationist".
 
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Astrid

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Hm. What do I think of them.

Well, when it comes to creationism, there's a fine line between earnest faith based beliefs, and intellectual dishonest abuse of topics of science. It's like asking what I think of Ken Ham. Some days he comes off as a complete con artist, but then other days he comes off as someone who sincerely believes what he preaches, despite it sounding crazy.

And there's a spectrum there. With YECism, OECism, ID, and TE. Because of the generally mysterious nature of God or of existence, naturally there's just a lot of variety of theological views, including things like atheism and agnosticism. Personally, I think that within Christianity, theistic evolution is the only decent option with respect to being perfectly honest about scientific topics. Simply because TE doesn't really have any theological limits for what science says.

So, I guess for ID, I'd have to say, it has a mild form of dishonesty wrapped into earnest belief, and there's history with cdesign proponentists and some dishonest approaches by IDers in that regard.
So they can't really be trusted. And I think Meyer in particular takes a pretty dishonest approach to paleontology as well.

But at the end of the day, for them, honesty doesn't really matter. Like in the court of law, lawyers make arguments in favor of things, not necessarily because it's right or wrong, but because that's what their career falls upon. Criminals can go free with good lawyers who make good arguments. And that's what Meyer does. He makes arguments, he sells books, he makes a salary, perhaps he goes to church afterwards and feels as though he's doing God's work, and that's good enough for him.

Actually I asked what you think of Discovery Institute.
Is your answer that they cannot be trusted?

From my pov honesty, intellectual or otherwise, is everything.
If a preacher or a scientist or an attorney does not
have integrity, they have nothing and their work
deserves only contempt.

I dont agree with the fine line you speak of
but in respect for local ordnances i wont elabourate.

( i get practice colouring between the lines where I live, too)
 
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Buzzard3

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From my pov honesty, intellectual or otherwise, is everything.
If a preacher or a scientist or an attorney does not
have integrity, they have nothing and their work
deserves only contempt.
When was Discovery Institute dishonest?
 
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Astrid

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As for me, I love it.

evolutionnews.org is one of my favourite sites. Phillip Johnson is a great writer too.

What makes Meyer a great writer?
Literary quality or the strength of his ID reseasrch?
(As in did you read any of it)
 
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Buzzard3

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What makes Meyer a great writer?
Literary quality or the strength of his ID reseasrch?
(As in did you read any of it)
Anyone writer who points out the weaknesses of Darwinism with contrary science is a great writer.
 
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Buzzard3

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Now now, i just asked if you had read any of his science.
I take it you have not.
So may I assume you think Meyer writes great literature,
though youve no idea if he has done any legitimate science
to support the iD that he writes about?
Of course he's "done" legitimate science - he worked as a geophysicist.
 
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Astrid

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Anyone writer who points out the weaknesses of Darwinism with contrary science is a great writer.

Contrary science? That would be some great stuff.

Anyone disproving ToE would be a towering figure in the
history if science


How aboutMeyer? He talks a lot. Why dont you check
his scientific publications? You must note he has creds as a
scientist. He knows how science is done.
Check one of his resesrch papers on ID, maybe
he has something.
Seems the least someone calling him a great would
want to do.
 
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Astrid

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I thought that's what you meant in post 949.
So you don't think Discovery Institute is dishonest? Most Darwinists do.

I did not say one way or the other.
Plz dont put words in my mouth or call names.
 
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