For those wishing to understand the 2 Holy Spirit baptisms

BCsenior

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Today's churches have no clue what the true power of God is. They read the Bible and try to reason that it did not actually happen that way. But Christ commanded we have the simple faith of a child. And when you can achieve that point, that is when God takes over. And when God takes over, you are not controlling anything, including speaking in tongues!!
Hi, and welcome ...
thou knowest of what thouest speakest!
 
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ToBeLoved

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Everything we experience in our walk with God relates to the Holy Spirit and its gifts. And by putting God to the test to come through is living by faith. If you had no faith you would not give it to God at any time. It takes faith to give problems to God.

Hmmm, you either have bad understanding or just were taught badly. But you cannot give something to God unless you first have faith in God!!
You don't understand the Holy Spirit and His full function then. Gifts of the Holy Spirit is a small part of who the Holy Spirit is to the believer.

I'm not sure you should doubt others teaching and understanding when your base of understanding of the Holy Spirit's function seems very small.
 
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ToBeLoved

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Shouldn’t need proof if you know God, Biblically. Let’s stop this needless banter, it’s one of the things God hates between brothers and sisters in Christ. :yellowheart:
There is nothing wrong with asking someone to provide the verses in the Bible that they are basing their belief or opinion about.
 
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BCsenior

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There is nothing wrong with asking someone to provide the verses in the Bible that they are basing their belief or opinion about.
Suzie's cat was at death's door (said the vet).
Jerry laid hands on the cat, and prayed for it.
Da cat was miraculously healed.
But, this never happened ...
because there's no Scripture verse for it.
Oh well, I guess da cat's dead
... but it sure looks alive to me!
Actually, I wuz going to the optometrist anyway.
(This'll probably get me banned for a month.)
 
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ToBeLoved

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Suzie's cat was at death's door (said the vet).
Jerry laid hands on the cat, and prayed for it.
Da cat was miraculously healed.
But, this never happened ...
because there's no Scripture verse for it.
Oh well, I guess da cat's dead
... but it sure looks alive to me!
Actually, I wuz going to the optometrist anyway.
(This'll probably get me banned for a month.)
You are most impressive. Did you make that story up or can I buy the novel somewhere?
 
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servantofiam

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You don't understand the Holy Spirit and His full function then. Gifts of the Holy Spirit is a small part of who the Holy Spirit is to the believer.

I'm not sure you should doubt others teaching and understanding when your base of understanding of the Holy Spirit's function seems very small.




Sorry, unfortunately at times the farm needs me lol

Anyways, I completely understand the function of the Holy Spirit. This discussion however that I participated is about speaking in tongues, which edifies the Spirit of God. And my points were all about remaining in the "will of God." If you remain in the "will of God," you maintain a personal intimate relationship with God. And as you grow more with God, the gifts become apparent in your life. Now, none of us have all of the gifts. But some do have more than one.

From all of your answers, I would conclude that you have never seriously fasted. Gone days even weeks at a time rejecting the flesh by keeping in the WORD and in constant prayer. You can sense the presence of God like you have never before. You will unselfishly begin to edify God unlike never before. And you will begin to speak in the heavenly language like you have never before.

In fact, Christ said to His disciples who could not cast a demonic entity out, fasting is required for such a task.

Something else that struck me odd about our conversation. You asked for scripture references. If you actually knew the WORD of God, you would know what scriptures I was eluding to by the things I spoke about. This is a Biblical forum. I guess you could say I was therefore guilty of assuming that you were grounded in scripture. Shame on me then for assuming :(
 
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BCsenior

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I apologize for being so late in including this ...

Concerning the disciples and other believers
in Acts 1:14-15 …
“While Jesus’ disciples were waiting for the gift of the Holy Spirit, they all joined together constantly in prayer. It is mainly through prayer that we obtain the power of the Holy Spirit (Luke 11:13) … In addition to Jesus’ main disciples, there were in Jerusalem at that time about
120 other believers. Perhaps among them were the 72 believers whom Jesus sent out ahead of Him to announce the coming of the kingdom of God (Luke 10:1-11).”

(The Applied New Testament Commentary, 1996,
Dr. Thomas Hale, medical missionary to Nepal)

Yes, all of these BACs were tarrying for the 2nd baptism
... the baptism of spiritual power for ministry
... the baptism with the Holy Spirit.
 
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YeshuaFan

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I know and agree.

But my argument to the poster was that we do not take our theology or a denominations theology and prove it true. We take God's Word and prove what is true, and then that becomes our theology.

The point to the previous poster is that a denominational commentary is going to push the denominational teaching. That is not how we evaluate the Bible, with a slant.

God calls us to seek Truth as our Father in heaven is Truth.

Truth is not found by not evaluating the Bible on it's own merits.
Yes, as that just might be the hardest thing for us to do when studying the Bible, as all of us come to the scriptures with what I call a religious gridlock , as we have poresumptions that we come to and try to get proved in the Bible, instead of the Bible giving to us our theology!
 
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YeshuaFan

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Maybe you have no idea what the true power of God is.

God in His Word it says God’s Glory was revealed in His Son. The POWER of Jesus Christ.

The POWER of the Father who loves us enough to send His Own Son, God Himself to reconcile sinful mankind back to God. So we can spend eternity with God.

The POWER of the Holy Spirit indwelling each believer.

Why don’t you get real detailed on all the POWER of God that we are missing.

And the power you say you have. Where is that from?
The Holy Spirit when he comes and indwells us, is the One that gives to us the empowering to now live for Jesus and to be witnesses to Him, and to have fruit in our lives, but the spiritual pride and the bad theology that is being produced in many Charismatic circles tells me that the Holy Spirit is not really part of that Charismatic Chaos!
 
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YeshuaFan

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Sorry, unfortunately at times the farm needs me lol

Anyways, I completely understand the function of the Holy Spirit. This discussion however that I participated is about speaking in tongues, which edifies the Spirit of God. And my points were all about remaining in the "will of God." If you remain in the "will of God," you maintain a personal intimate relationship with God. And as you grow more with God, the gifts become apparent in your life. Now, none of us have all of the gifts. But some do have more than one.

From all of your answers, I would conclude that you have never seriously fasted. Gone days even weeks at a time rejecting the flesh by keeping in the WORD and in constant prayer. You can sense the presence of God like you have never before. You will unselfishly begin to edify God unlike never before. And you will begin to speak in the heavenly language like you have never before.

In fact, Christ said to His disciples who could not cast a demonic entity out, fasting is required for such a task.

Something else that struck me odd about our conversation. You asked for scripture references. If you actually knew the WORD of God, you would know what scriptures I was eluding to by the things I spoke about. This is a Biblical forum. I guess you could say I was therefore guilty of assuming that you were grounded in scripture. Shame on me then for assuming :(
Since much of what Charismatics presuppose has no scripture backing, how can we know what ones that you are relying upon though?
 
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servantofiam

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Since much of what Charismatics presuppose has no scripture backing, how can we know what ones that you are relying upon though?




Because my salvation is based solely upon what God in the flesh taught us. I learned years ago in theology at several of the biblical colleges my Grandfather once taught at (as he was an evangelist, biblical scholar/teacher, a pastor, and presbyter over several Midwest states)...and what I learned was if someone you are communicating with is biblically ungrounded, it still does not matter if you provide scripture. They just won't get it.



This is precious to me, but here is a short video. If you pause it at the 1:17 mark, the African American man in the white shirt in the middle is none other than the late great G.T. Haywood who wrote in our song hymnals, "The Crimson Stream of Blood, that flows from Calvary."

But, now glance to the furthest man on the left, that is the late great reverend Vincent McGlynn, MY GRANDFATHER (the short Jewish Irish man) hahahahaha.

These men represent the founding members of the Assemblies of the Lord Jesus Christ!!


 
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ToBeLoved

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Sorry, unfortunately at times the farm needs me lol

Anyways, I completely understand the function of the Holy Spirit. This discussion however that I participated is about speaking in tongues, which edifies the Spirit of God. And my points were all about remaining in the "will of God." If you remain in the "will of God," you maintain a personal intimate relationship with God. And as you grow more with God, the gifts become apparent in your life. Now, none of us have all of the gifts. But some do have more than one.

From all of your answers, I would conclude that you have never seriously fasted. Gone days even weeks at a time rejecting the flesh by keeping in the WORD and in constant prayer. You can sense the presence of God like you have never before. You will unselfishly begin to edify God unlike never before. And you will begin to speak in the heavenly language like you have never before.

In fact, Christ said to His disciples who could not cast a demonic entity out, fasting is required for such a task.

Something else that struck me odd about our conversation. You asked for scripture references. If you actually knew the WORD of God, you would know what scriptures I was eluding to by the things I spoke about. This is a Biblical forum. I guess you could say I was therefore guilty of assuming that you were grounded in scripture. Shame on me then for assuming :(
I have a question about what you said in paragraph two.

You said that tongues edifies the Holy Spirit.

I’m not sure I understand what you mean or have ever read a Bible verse that indicates the Spirit needs edifying or that God can be edified
 
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ToBeLoved

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The Holy Spirit when he comes and indwells us, is the One that gives to us the empowering to now live for Jesus and to be witnesses to Him, and to have fruit in our lives, but the spiritual pride and the bad theology that is being produced in many Charismatic circles tells me that the Holy Spirit is not really part of that Charismatic Chaos!
I see it too. As a matter of fact every thread I participate in with them weakens their argument for me. Both from a Biblical sense and the words they use and lack of humility/spiritual superiority.
 
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servantofiam

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I have a question about what you said in paragraph two.

You said that tongues edifies the Holy Spirit.

I’m not sure I understand what you mean or have ever read a Bible verse that indicates the Spirit needs edifying or that God can be edified



Acts 10:

44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.



Verse 45 shows the Holy Spirit of God poured out unto the Gentiles. So they are filled with the Holy Spirit at this particular moment.

And proof they were filled with the Holy Spirit was them speaking in tongues in verse 46.

In theological terms, the tongues edified the Holy Spirit, or, the tongues was proof these men had actually received the Holy Spirit.

This is why they claim the gifts of the Holy Spirit while in proper action edifies the Holy Spirit, or it confirms it is really the gifts of the Holy Spirit we are witnessing!!
 
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ToBeLoved

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Sorry, unfortunately at times the farm needs me lol

Anyways, I completely understand the function of the Holy Spirit. This discussion however that I participated is about speaking in tongues, which edifies the Spirit of God. And my points were all about remaining in the "will of God." If you remain in the "will of God," you maintain a personal intimate relationship with God. And as you grow more with God, the gifts become apparent in your life. Now, none of us have all of the gifts. But some do have more than one.

From all of your answers, I would conclude that you have never seriously fasted. Gone days even weeks at a time rejecting the flesh by keeping in the WORD and in constant prayer. You can sense the presence of God like you have never before. You will unselfishly begin to edify God unlike never before. And you will begin to speak in the heavenly language like you have never before.

In fact, Christ said to His disciples who could not cast a demonic entity out, fasting is required for such a task.

Something else that struck me odd about our conversation. You asked for scripture references. If you actually knew the WORD of God, you would know what scriptures I was eluding to by the things I spoke about. This is a Biblical forum. I guess you could say I was therefore guilty of assuming that you were grounded in scripture. Shame on me then for assuming :(
First. I never look at providing scripture references myself as a negative thing. Because even if I know the reference myself, there are many people reading the thread that may not know. Part of our responsibility in knowing God’s Word is to share our knowledge. I haven’t studied for 30 years only for myself, but to hopefully help and inspire others.

Second. We are commanded by God to search the scriptures for truth. If someone is going to change my mind it is rarely by opinion, but through scripture is the way to change my mind.

Third. Asking for proof text is a good way of further understanding what someone is tryout to say. If I can see the verses they base their post on then that gives me a much better idea of what they are trying to say. I can then respond directly to the scripture they are referencing.

Fourth. Asking for scripture quickly separates those who share opinions from those who God’s Word forms their theology. I can’t tell you how many times I have spent an hour or hours writing and people many times don’t even read what we write. A better solution is to just skip the explanations and opinions and go directly to God’s Word. Often people themselves have no idea what they are basing it off of.

So, as you can see, I disagree that I should assume I know what verses you are talking about.

Also, if you would like to “continue “ a conversation, please refrain from telling me I am not grounded in scripture. If you continue we can end our conversation.
 
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ToBeLoved

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Acts 10:

44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.



Verse 45 shows the Holy Spirit of God poured out unto the Gentiles. So they are filled with the Holy Spirit at this particular moment.

And proof they were filled with the Holy Spirit was them speaking in tongues in verse 46.

In theological terms, the tongues edified the Holy Spirit, or, the tongues was proof these men had actually received the Holy Spirit.

This is why they claim the gifts of the Holy Spirit while in proper action edifies the Holy Spirit, or it confirms it is really the Holy Spirit we are witnessing!!
What definition do you use for “edify”?

I am not sure you understand the meaning of the word by your explanation.

Your proof verses also do not directly show the Holy Spirit needs or is edifies by people speaking in tongues.

So I ask the same question again.
 
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servantofiam

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That particular scripture is proof of edification. It clearly states the Jews with Peter were astonished because these men were speaking in tongues which was evidence they did have the Holy Spirit.



Like I mentioned before, you struggle with literal scripture meaning. These verses are plain as it gets that the Gentiles once filled with the Holy Spirit began speaking in tongues and magnifying God.
 
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