For those who believe abortion is murder, should women be prosecuted?

[JerseyChristianSuperstar]

It seems to me that if you truly believe that abortion at any stage in a pregnancy is murder, then you must also believe that the woman who pays the abortion doctor and sets up an appointment to terminate her unborn child is a murderer, and should be prosecuted.

In American legal jurisprudence, if someone hires a hitman to kill a living human being, in the eyes of the law that person is just as much a murderer as the hitman who did the slaying.

Let's suppose that a woman hires a hitman for $800 to kill her four-month-old baby, because she has decided that she does not want to raise her anymore. Every sane person, whether they support abortion rights or oppose legalized abortion, would say she should be charged with felony murder.

Now let's suppose that a woman sets up an appointment with an abortion doctor to have her pregnancy terminated when her fetus is also four months old, and she pays $800 for it. She goes through with it, and she is no longer pregnant.

If you truly believe abortion at any stage is murder (which I personally don't), that must mean that you believe the woman in the second scenario should face the same consequences as the woman in the first scenario: a felony murder charge.

So, for everybody on this forum who claims that that is their belief, that abortion is murder at any stage, would you support charging the woman in the second scenario with murder?

 

[Tree of Life]

As the law of the land stands today, I would not support a murder charge because abortion is currently legal. But I do believe that abortion is murder so I would support a legislative movement that sought to make abortion illegal and to penalize abortion by treating it as a murder case.

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

Of course they should be charged with murder. Killing a human is killing a human.

 

[Ken Rank]

It seems to me that if you truly believe that abortion at any stage in a pregnancy is murder, then you must also believe that the woman who pays the abortion doctor and sets up an appointment to terminate her unborn child is a murderer, and should be prosecuted.

In American legal jurisprudence, if someone hires a hitman to kill a living human being, in the eyes of the law that person is just as much a murderer as the hitman who did the slaying.

Let's suppose that a woman hires a hitman for $800 to kill her four-month-old baby, because she has decided that she does not want to raise her anymore. Every sane person, whether they support abortion rights or oppose legalized abortion, would say she should be charged with felony murder.

Now let's suppose that a woman sets up an appointment with an abortion doctor to have her pregnancy terminated when her fetus is also four months old, and she pays $800 for it. She goes through with it, and she is no longer pregnant.

If you truly believe abortion at any stage is murder (which I personally don't), that must mean that you believe the woman in the second scenario should face the same consequences as the woman in the first scenario: a felony murder charge.

So, for everybody on this forum who claims that that is their belief, that abortion is murder at any stage, would you support charging the woman in the second scenario with murder?

Again... the baby is genetically a separate human being... the DNA says so. By the time she finds out she is pregnant, that unique human being has a heart beat. It is murder and even if the law of the land won't deal with it, God will. God does not change... He and He alone is the giver of life. They will answer to Him.

 

[eleos1954]

It seems to me that if you truly believe that abortion at any stage in a pregnancy is murder, then you must also believe that the woman who pays the abortion doctor and sets up an appointment to terminate her unborn child is a murderer, and should be prosecuted.

In American legal jurisprudence, if someone hires a hitman to kill a living human being, in the eyes of the law that person is just as much a murderer as the hitman who did the slaying.

Let's suppose that a woman hires a hitman for $800 to kill her four-month-old baby, because she has decided that she does not want to raise her anymore. Every sane person, whether they support abortion rights or oppose legalized abortion, would say she should be charged with felony murder.

Now let's suppose that a woman sets up an appointment with an abortion doctor to have her pregnancy terminated when her fetus is also four months old, and she pays $800 for it. She goes through with it, and she is no longer pregnant.

If you truly believe abortion at any stage is murder (which I personally don't), that must mean that you believe the woman in the second scenario should face the same consequences as the woman in the first scenario: a felony murder charge.

So, for everybody on this forum who claims that that is their belief, that abortion is murder at any stage, would you support charging the woman in the second scenario with murder?

If a person attacks a woman who is pregnant at any stage of her pregnancy (her intending carry the child to full term) and the child dies because of the attack has murder been committed?

 

[thecolorsblend]

It seems to me that if you truly believe that abortion at any stage in a pregnancy is murder, then you must also believe that the woman who pays the abortion doctor and sets up an appointment to terminate her unborn child is a murderer, and should be prosecuted.

In American legal jurisprudence, if someone hires a hitman to kill a living human being, in the eyes of the law that person is just as much a murderer as the hitman who did the slaying.

Let's suppose that a woman hires a hitman for $800 to kill her four-month-old baby, because she has decided that she does not want to raise her anymore. Every sane person, whether they support abortion rights or oppose legalized abortion, would say she should be charged with felony murder.

Now let's suppose that a woman sets up an appointment with an abortion doctor to have her pregnancy terminated when her fetus is also four months old, and she pays $800 for it. She goes through with it, and she is no longer pregnant.

If you truly believe abortion at any stage is murder (which I personally don't), that must mean that you believe the woman in the second scenario should face the same consequences as the woman in the first scenario: a felony murder charge.

So, for everybody on this forum who claims that that is their belief, that abortion is murder at any stage, would you support charging the woman in the second scenario with murder?

Personally, I would be very open to charging the "mother" with murder if she procures an abortion.

However, I also recognize that even if abortion was somehow banned tomorrow, most people don't really have the stomach to prosecute her. Don't know why that is but I can't picture the public going along with holding a woman accountable for aborting her child.

Yes, I would support it but I have no illusions that most people would agree with that.

 

[JerseyChristianSuperstar]

As the law of the land stands today, I would not support a murder charge because abortion is currently legal. But I do believe that abortion is murder so I would support a legislative movement that sought to make abortion illegal and to penalize abortion by treating it as a murder case.

For just the doctor, or for the woman as well?

 

[Tree of Life]

For just the doctor, or for the woman as well?

I would imagine that reasonable legislation would implicate both of them.

 

[GodLovesCats]

Of course they should be charged with murder. Killing a human is killing a human.

What if an expecting mother accidentally kills her fetus by treating a medical condition with something no unborn bagies can survive long before they are viable? You absolutely cannot charge her for taking drugs that she needs for her own health. That is just as immoeral as the murder itself.

 

[GodLovesCats]

If a person attacks a woman who is pregnant at any stage of her pregnancy (her intending carry the child to full term) and the child dies because of the attack has murder been committed?

Yes, in fact when a pregnant woman is killed in an attack the man is charged with a double murder.

 

[Sparagmos]

As the law of the land stands today, I would not support a murder charge because abortion is currently legal. But I do believe that abortion is murder so I would support a legislative movement that sought to make abortion illegal and to penalize abortion by treating it as a murder case.

Then 1 in 5 women in the U.S. are murderers. Women you know. Women you see at church, likely women in your own family. Coworkers.

 

[Tree of Life]

Then 1 in 5 women in the U.S. are murderers. Women you know. Women you see at church, likely women in your own family. Coworkers.

I don't doubt it. And there are many men who are complicit in these acts as well.

 

[chevyontheriver]

For just the doctor, or for the woman as well?

For the doctor and for the boyfriend who impregnated her, then forced her to get an abortion, and who will dump her if she ever gets pregnant again. Such doctors and such boyfriends are slime.

 

[GodLovesCats]

For the doctor and for the boyfriend who impregnated her, then forced her to get an abortion, and who will dump her if she ever gets pregnant again. Such doctors and such boyfriends are slime.

Or in some cases ex-boyfriends. Also don't forget pedophiles.

There is no debate about punishing the rapist, but if he did not want his "girlfriend" to choose an aboriton over delivering her baby, he should only be charged with the sexual crime. Only the girl or woman makes the decision to abort her pregnancy.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Or in some cases ex-boyfriends. Also don't forget pedophiles.

There is no debate about punishing the rapist, but if he did not want his "girlfriend" to choose an aboriton over delivering her baby, he should only be charged with the sexual crime. Only the girl or woman makes the decision to abort her pregnancy.

The two cases I know anything about were not cases where the woman made the decision freely or without fear. Boyfriends decided what would be done, arranged for the event, payed for it, and brought the women to the abortionists. Not the decisions of the two women involved, unless you thing being coerced is a decision. I think it's sick. And why I am not in a rush to charge a woman with murder for having an abortion. In so many cases they are pressured, physically harmed even, into having an abortion by rotten low-life boyfriends that don't have the gonads to be actual fathers to the children they fathered. Those folks, the world would be a better place without them roaming freely. They are murderers and should be charged.

 

[Shimokita]

It seems to me that if you truly believe that abortion at any stage in a pregnancy is murder, then you must also believe that the woman who pays the abortion doctor and sets up an appointment to terminate her unborn child is a murderer, and should be prosecuted.

In American legal jurisprudence, if someone hires a hitman to kill a living human being, in the eyes of the law that person is just as much a murderer as the hitman who did the slaying.

Let's suppose that a woman hires a hitman for $800 to kill her four-month-old baby, because she has decided that she does not want to raise her anymore. Every sane person, whether they support abortion rights or oppose legalized abortion, would say she should be charged with felony murder.

Now let's suppose that a woman sets up an appointment with an abortion doctor to have her pregnancy terminated when her fetus is also four months old, and she pays $800 for it. She goes through with it, and she is no longer pregnant.

If you truly believe abortion at any stage is murder (which I personally don't), that must mean that you believe the woman in the second scenario should face the same consequences as the woman in the first scenario: a felony murder charge.

So, for everybody on this forum who claims that that is their belief, that abortion is murder at any stage, would you support charging the woman in the second scenario with murder?

FYI I think “felony murder” refers to homicides that occur during the commission of a felony (e.g. someone is accidentally killed during a bank robbery). I think you just mean good old murder or being an accomplice to murder.

I wouldn’t have anything against charging the mother with murder, the only question is what would be an appropriate penalty. Every case is different, but in my view hiring a hitman to murder a 4 month old child is more depraved that hiring a doctor to perform an abortion. In every case the woman knows that hiring the hitman is morally wrong, but in many cases due to societal programming she may not even realize that abortion is wrong (although she should). When deciding an appropriate penalty you would also take into account things like financial pressure, fear, compulsion by family or boyfriends or the like. For a lot of these women I might be content with mandatory education that makes her understand the nature of what she did, plus some community service or something like that.

The hitman scenario is also more depraved because of the effect it has on the community, being a public act, whereas abortions are usually kept more private.

But for women who fully know what they are doing is wrong, have no pressure, and just look at abortion as a form of contraception, perhaps some real jail time could be appropriate.

 

[GodLovesCats]

FYI I think “felony murder” refers to homicides that occur during the commission of a felony (e.g. someone is accidentally killed during a bank robbery). I think you just mean good old murder or being an accomplice to murder.

Planning a murder for someone else to carry out draws a first degree murder charge and life in prison.

 

[chevyontheriver]

So, for everybody on this forum who claims that that is their belief, that abortion is murder at any stage, would you support charging the woman in the second scenario with murder?

I have a question for you. Do you believe in capital punishment? How about for rapists?

If you oppose the death penalty, then how do you justify the death penalty for an innocent child conceived in rape? So many people feel that it is immoral to kill even a convicted, guilty felonious rapist. Do you feel that way?

 

[JerseyChristianSuperstar]

I have a question for you. Do you believe in capital punishment? How about for rapists?

If you oppose the death penalty, then how do you justify the death penalty for an innocent child conceived in rape? So many people feel that it is immoral to kill even a convicted, guilty felonious rapist. Do you feel that way?

I don't believe in capital punishment, not because I believe it is inherently immoral (God used it several times in the Old Testament), but because of the strong possibility that innocent people will be executed, which has likely happened dozens, if not more, times throughout our history.

For example, Anthony Porter, who was awaiting execution for a Chicago double-murder conviction, turned out to be innocent and was freed from Death Row only 50 hours before his scheduled execution date.

So, I oppose capital punishment. There are several developed countries who have abolished it and they are doing just fine.

As I have stated before, I do not believe that abortions done in the early trimesters before viability constitute murder, as I do not consider the unborn child to be a "living human being" yet (there is no soul), so if a raped woman got an abortion at that time I would have no problem with it.

Contrary to the fearmongering of the radical right, there are not duplicitous women out there just lurking for a chance to abort their unborn child in the third trimester.

According to the CDC, roughly 1.3% of all abortions are performed after 21 weeks; 91.1% of them are performed at or before 13 weeks, barely after the first trimester and certainly not murder at that point.

 

[SPF]

I do not consider the unborn child to be a "living human being" yet (there is no soul)

Which of course, as demonstrated numerous times, is a belief you can't support.