For those that waited until marriage to do the you know what

[Guy Incognito]

still think it's the right thing to wait and will teach my daughter to wait, also

just because 95% of people don't wait, doesn't make it ok

As you should I don't think anyone is advocating not waiting. Heck, if my wife and I have kids, we'll be telling them to wait too - and why.

I just think the church and Christians have made purity a be-all-end-all, and 'not being pure' a sin above all other sins - which it isn't.

 

[PeachieKeen]

still think it's the right thing to wait and will teach my daughter to wait, also

just because 95% of people don't wait, doesn't make it ok

know too many people who've had kids out of wedlock because they didn't wait

one was a neighbor's daughter
she had to move back in with her parents, and having a baby threw her college education off as she was in a program and she had to lose a whole year

she struggled being a single parent
and the boyfriend no longer had any interest once she became pregnant so he didn't even stay in the child's life

Nobody is saying its not best to wait and that it isn't something we should try to do. What we are expressing we dislike is that not waiting is somehow more shameful than any other sin.

When purity is set on a pedestal what happens when that purity is taken from you- either by force or a mistake? Suddenly you are excluded from the perfect little desirable Christian group of people with untainted bodies. Suddenly you aren't good enough to be loved.

Work towards purity always, even if you've once failed. But purity doesn't define your worth or make you more lovable.

 

[DZoolander]

I also find the way people look at themselves w/respect to "purity" interesting.

For example, I've got a friend that's a pastor. We got onto the subject of purity one day and he told me about how he waited until he got married. I had only known him for a couple of years at this point - and he's a bit older than me. But I knew a little bit about him from other things he had told me (like the fact he and his wife had dated a LONG time before getting married)... So I was curious about that.

After a bit of questioning - it turned out that actually - no - he hadn't waited "until he was married". In fact he and his wife had consummated their relationship at some point (I didn't get into too many details of course) prior to actually going through the ceremony.

Now I believe that he actually BELIEVED he waited or had learned to frame it in his mind that way since she was his only partner. He married the person he lost his virginity to - and maybe they waited until just before getting married. But - I find that people often shift their beliefs about themselves when possible to fit the narrative they like.

Then there are people like my dad. My dad was a "purity" kind of guy - at least in the sense that he would have far preferred that we kids all waited. My sister and I both have firm recollections of him asking us if we were "doing anything inappropriate" with the people we were hanging out with/expressing that we ought wait, etc.

If you'd listened to my dad - you'd totally have thought he had been the "I waited" kind of guy.

But then I remember one day looking at my oldest sister's birthday and comparing it against when my dad and his first wife had been married (he was married twice). She was born 6 months after they married. Then out of curiosity I asked my aunt a few questions about his first marriage...like did she like the first wife and spend a lot of time with her prior to them being married...and my aunt said that she really didn't even know about the girl until my dad popped up married one day (and my dad was close to this sister of his).

So as near as I could figure - my dad must have had a hot date - and boom - along came my sister. He felt obligated to do the "right thing" and marry her.

It seems to me that there's what people actually do - and then what there's what people tell others they ought to do (often based upon their own experience).

 

[Guy Incognito]

This is why I'm glad the church has started to be more willing to engage in topics of sexuality (though he had some issues, I really valued that Mark Driscoll would do Q&A's on the topic, I found them quite helpful). It's needed to go beyond 'don't do this, it's sin and bad' but WHY its sinful (and not a sin above other sins), and how to navigate all the things that come with sexuality, why it's best saved for marriage, and that its inherently bad - but that there's a time and place, and outside that time and place it is/could be.

 

[mama2one]

My dad was a "purity" kind of guy - at least in the sense that he would have far preferred that we kids all waited. If you'd listened to my dad - you'd totally have thought he had been the "I waited" kind of guy. He felt obligated to do the "right thing" and marry her..

maybe he did wait with your mom?
certainly he didn't want what happened to him, to happen with his kids

 

[DZoolander]

Dunno - lol - maybe he did wait with my mom. I'd give it 50/50 odds. He seemed to really believe it when he'd tell us that - but they did have like a 3(ish) year dating/courtship period...and that's a fair amount of time to find a reason not to wait.

 

[Stringfellow_Hawke]

I also find the way people look at themselves w/respect to "purity" interesting.

For example, I've got a friend that's a pastor. We got onto the subject of purity one day and he told me about how he waited until he got married. I had only known him for a couple of years at this point - and he's a bit older than me. But I knew a little bit about him from other things he had told me (like the fact he and his wife had dated a LONG time before getting married)... So I was curious about that.

After a bit of questioning - it turned out that actually - no - he hadn't waited "until he was married". In fact he and his wife had consummated their relationship at some point (I didn't get into too many details of course) prior to actually going through the ceremony.

Now I believe that he actually BELIEVED he waited or had learned to frame it in his mind that way since she was his only partner. He married the person he lost his virginity to - and maybe they waited until just before getting married. But - I find that people often shift their beliefs about themselves when possible to fit the narrative they like.

Then there are people like my dad. My dad was a "purity" kind of guy - at least in the sense that he would have far preferred that we kids all waited. My sister and I both have firm recollections of him asking us if we were "doing anything inappropriate" with the people we were hanging out with/expressing that we ought wait, etc.

If you'd listened to my dad - you'd totally have thought he had been the "I waited" kind of guy.

But then I remember one day looking at my oldest sister's birthday and comparing it against when my dad and his first wife had been married (he was married twice). She was born 6 months after they married. Then out of curiosity I asked my aunt a few questions about his first marriage...like did she like the first wife and spend a lot of time with her prior to them being married...and my aunt said that she really didn't even know about the girl until my dad popped up married one day (and my dad was close to this sister of his).

So as near as I could figure - my dad must have had a hot date - and boom - along came my sister. He felt obligated to do the "right thing" and marry her.

It seems to me that there's what people actually do - and then what there's what people tell others they ought to do (often based upon their own experience).

The most important (sometimes difficult) thing is honesty. With yourself, with your friend/loved one and with God.

 

[marineimaging]

I have a very tiny sample size that I'm judging this on but it seems to me that Christians who wait for marriage before sex are more likely to marry their eventual partner quicker than a couple whos already doing it. Does this sound about right? And if it is true then doesn't this lead to all kinds of issues and wrong intentions for marriage? I think waiting for marriage is a good thing but if you marry someone after a month or year just so you can do the deed then it seems counterproductive to the point of marriage. Perhaps people have experiences themselves or of others who waited a very long time but it doesn't seem likely from what I've seen around me.

Think of this throughout my statement. The notion that sexual relations relieves daily stresses is a Satan born lie. Stresses to not arise because of the lack of sex and they do not get resolved by having sex. Married or not.

That said, waiting until after marriage can literally make your marriage foundation secure. Especially if your marriage is also founded on the solid rock of Jesus Christ. It proves to yourselves that sex is not the glue that holds your marriage together and that is most important in your marriage relationship. That you both agree on more than you disagree. Although it is one of the least important facets of marriage the lies we hear every day have generated a greater value for it than it deserves. For me and my spouse it is not even on the top of the list. Oh, when we were younger it helped that we had a healthy view of it and were monogamous, but when we had to address the day to day rituals and emergencies then sexual relations did nothing to fix them. Did nothing to solve problems or write any checks to pay bills. Didn't get the daughter with the bicycle spoke stuck in her foot to the emergency room. When the hurricane hit and the tree fell through my truck we were not having sex and it would not have gotten it fixed afterwards. When we went to church and approached the alter to pray and give thanks, sex was the furthest thing from our mind. Sex should be about 1/10th of your relationship but Satan has done a great job through advertising and fake news and peer pressure to make it 10 times more important than it is. If you haven't noticed, the majority of people who have sex outside of marriage are never satisfied. They are always complaining about something in life that didn't get fixed by having sex. And when it is time to pay the piper how many are contemplating murdering their baby because they were careless and outside of the marriage carriage?

But hear this. Pushing yourselves to the point where you have to decided to forgo it every time to see if you are compatible is not healthy either. It is easy when you are emotionally AND physically attracted to each other to reach a point where the scales are ready to be tipped one way or the other. If that happens in your relationship it should be a pure accident. (Not tipping the scale toward having relations. But getting to the point where the scales are ready to tip. THAT should be the accident. Simple as that.) You should talk about it openly and agree not to push yourselves that far and when you stop, it should be mutual and an Uh-Oh moment you both nervously laugh off and put on the brakes.

Marriage should be about working together as one to reach a point in life where you can look back and hear God say, "Well done my true and faithful servants. (With a plural "s" that means "oneness" in remembrance of the marriage vows.) Well done children. It is time to come home."

 

[Dave-W]

So as near as I could figure - my dad must have had a hot date - and boom - along came my sister. He felt obligated to do the "right thing" and marry her.

It seems to me that there's what people actually do - and then what there's what people tell others they ought to do (often based upon their own experience).

Yeah.

I was told by my mom (in a very inappropriate time and venue) that I was the result of something akin to a date rape.

So then dad - an ordained pastor - had to file for divorce and marry my mom. The marriage happened 15 months after I was born. My older half sister said it happened "before the ink was dry" on the divorce papers. It took over 2 years to divorce back in the 1950s.

 

[Dave-W]

Think of this throughout my statement. The notion that sexual relations relieves daily stresses is a Satan born lie. Stresses to not arise because of the lack of sex and they do not get resolved by having sex. Married or not.

Not exactly true. While many - most even - stresses are not caused by sex or the lack thereof, unfulfilled sexual desires can be a HUGE stressor. [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] does release endorphins into the system, which are natural de-stress hormones.

 

[Paidiske]

This is why I'm glad the church has started to be more willing to engage in topics of sexuality (though he had some issues, I really valued that Mark Driscoll would do Q&A's on the topic, I found them quite helpful). It's needed to go beyond 'don't do this, it's sin and bad' but WHY its sinful (and not a sin above other sins), and how to navigate all the things that come with sexuality, why it's best saved for marriage, and that its inherently bad - but that there's a time and place, and outside that time and place it is/could be.

I'd add to this too; almost all of the discussion I've ever seen on this in a Christian context addresses the question and the "navigating" from a very masculine point of view. On the whole I'm not big on claiming massive differences between the sexes, but my experience suggests to me that the reasons why men have sex before marriage, and the reasons why women do, are often very very different. And talking to women and girls as if their reasons and circumstances are akin to men's is really really unhelpful.

Also addressing questions of power. So often we don't talk about power and powerlessness in relationships and how that plays into sexual decision making; but we should.

That's so sad about your parents, Dave. Do you think that explains some of the other difficult things you've shared about them?

 

[Dave-W]

That's so sad about your parents, Dave. Do you think that explains some of the other difficult things you've shared about them?

Thanks. And it does, at least in part.

This last March I had dinner with my 2 remaining half siblings (from dad's first marriage) and got a much clearer picture of why dad was the way he was. My sister claims it is ALL on her mom.

Such tsuris! wow. At close to 70 years old and she is still in need of major healing.

And going thru all the papers at my mom's after her passing revealed even MORE about him and his first marriage. Why those papers were still there after 50+ years I have NO idea. I shipped them all to my sister, including some child hood pics of her and the others which her mom told her never existed.

 

[Guy Incognito]

I'd add to this too; almost all of the discussion I've ever seen on this in a Christian context addresses the question and the "navigating" from a very masculine point of view. On the whole I'm not big on claiming massive differences between the sexes, but my experience suggests to me that the reasons why men have sex before marriage, and the reasons why women do, are often very very different. And talking to women and girls as if their reasons and circumstances are akin to men's is really really unhelpful.

Also addressing questions of power. So often we don't talk about power and powerlessness in relationships and how that plays into sexual decision making; but we should.

GREAT point. I'm thrilled that most Christian-sex blogs are from a women's perspective, as - while I may relate more to the male viewpoint, I need the female one - helps me understand the who other side of things.

 

[marineimaging]

Not exactly true. While many - most even - stresses are not caused by sex or the lack thereof, unfulfilled sexual desires can be a HUGE stressor. [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] does release endorphins into the system, which are natural de-stress hormones.

I am familiar with the physiological aspect of endorphin release from many different angle and I think that is where we can disagree. Stress can be relieved by doing a thousand other things and they can be tested. My daughter actually taught me something about that and I can attest to it. If you get up in the morning hating the day, you will successfully hate the day. But if you get up with the idea of accomplishing just ONE thing. Take for example, taking a shower. Not just a shower but a successful shower, and you accomplish that task and then decide on your next, you will be surprisingly satisfied with your morning. I have focused on taking it one day at a time, one thing at a time and not one time has sex been needed to kick those endorphins in and relieve the stress. Now, if you believe it has to be done before marriage with someone else or your fiance in order to have a successful marriage, that will become a self-fulfilling prophesy. But if pleasing your fiance by doing things for him or her gives you pleasure you can relieve a lot of stress by pleasing your fiance without needing to have sexual relations before marriage. Like I said, sexual relations is not the glue that holds your marriage together. Especially when medicine, or an accident, or a physiological event you have no control over happens.

 

[mama2one]

I am familiar with the physiological aspect of endorphin release from many different angle and I think that is where we can disagree. Stress can be relieved by doing a thousand other things and they can be tested.

with having fibromyalgia, can tell you having sex with husband does give me stress relief/pain relief/will help me sleep better

nothing else comes close, lol

(for singles reading this thread, I advocate waiting til marriage; it's worth it to wait)

 

[marineimaging]

with having fibromyalgia, can tell you having sex with husband does give me stress relief/pain relief/will help me sleep better

nothing else comes close, lol

(for singles reading this thread, I advocate waiting til marriage; it's worth it to wait)

Back on topic, I waited my first time. We did it by the book. Sex is not the bond that makes marriages last nor even good.

 

[Dave-W]

. We did it by the book. Sex is not the bond that makes marriages last nor even good.

So a total lack of sex in marriage is ok by your estimation?

 

[marineimaging]

So a total lack of sex in marriage is ok by your estimation?

Don't put words in my mouth. The OP was sex BEFORE marriage and the effect it had on the courting timeline. I never said anything about no sexual relations with your spouse. I said, and will reiterate, sex is NOT the bond that makes a marriage strong. It has been made overly important and in fact can be one of the reasons many a marriage falls apart. For one reason it will never live up to the expectations that are false puffery by the master at deception in the world today. On another hand, if you take Paul's instructions 'to be like him (celibate) but if you can't, then be married' we see it scripturally recognized that the drive for such is something that might vary with people, however, he is also indicating that there is still choice involved. Nobody I know will claim that Paul is the expert on such things, however I consider him as well tuned to our Lords desires when it comes to marital relations. Enough to contribute to a happy marriage between one man and one woman that God desires and instructs that no man put asunder.

 

[Dave-W]

I said, and will reiterate, sex is NOT the bond that makes a marriage strong.

Many people including theologians, disagree on that point.

 

[mama2one]

The OP was sex BEFORE marriage and the effect it had on the courting timeline.

this is an old thread from last year that got going again
wonder if the OP is even reading it anymore

since we waited til marriage, I certainly had the expectation built up in my mind
but don't think us getting married 6 mos from first date had anything to do with sex
he asked me to marry, I said yes, we started planning wedding right away

for me sex has become more important the longer we are married
even though, in my head, know he loves me, want him to show me physically