For those people who believe that the universe always existed .

[Jon]

For those people who believe that the universe always existed…

The second law of thermodynamics says that its is the tenancy for all things to disorder.
As time passes the universe will become more and more disordered
The universe could not have always existed because of the second law of thermodynamics.

 

[Arikay]

Also, based on the big bang theory the universe has a begining. However, since all theories that we have now start to work not long after the big bang, its impossible to tell what was going on before the big bang (if anything).

 

[fragmentsofdreams]

The 2nd law of thermodynamics only applies to closed systems, so it is possible to conceive of an eternal universe. However, I don't think many people believe that the Universe is eternal.

 

[Freodin]

A little sophistic, but true no less: as the Big Bang is theorized to be the beginn of both space and time, you could very well say that the universe is eternal, as it has existed for all time.

 

[LadyShea]

The first law of thermodynamics states that matter and energy can be neither created or destroyed, only change form. I think the Universe has always existed in some form . I do not know what its previous form may have been, or if it may return to that form at some point (entropy?), but I think that some kind of cycle is entirely possible.

 

[Jon]

3rd April 2003 at 02:29 PM LadyShea said this in Post #5

The first law of thermodynamics states that matter and energy can be neither created or destroyed, only change form. I think the Universe has always existed in some form . I do not know what its previous form may have been, or if it may return to that form at some point (entropy?), but I think that some kind of cycle is entirely possible.

Why don't you just say the the scientific laws where created when the universe was

 

[LadyShea]

Because, that's slightly different than what I believe. I think there has been an unending cycle of Big Bangs, and whatever we choose to call the state just before the Big Bang.

 

[Zadok001]

And I stand on the other side of LadyShea. I believe the universe has always existed in some form, and that it is concievable that prior forms did not have the Law of Entropy in the form we have it today. Hence, entropy is not a problem for the claim that the universe has always existed, since entropy is not necessarily a permanent fixture of the universe.

(Out of curiousity... For those people who believe that God always existed, the second law of thermodynamics says that its is the tenancy for all things to disorder. As time passes God will become more and more disordered. God could not have always existed because of the second law of thermodynamics. With it phrased that way, do you see the fallacy of this reasoning?)

 

[Jon]

Zadok001:
God isn't stuck with our scientific laws.

 

[Mechanical Bliss]

3rd April 2003 at 10:15 PM Jon said this in Post #9

Zadok001:
God isn't stuck with our scientific laws.

Yeah, your god doesn't have to be "stuck" with anything in reality unless you want him to. Heck, he doesn't even have to follow the same moral system for which Christians claim he set the standards (hypocrisy).

YECists seem to have no problem holding their deity to natural laws to try to explain a global flood, but obviously it doesn't work so they have to keep moving the goalposts back, and back, and back until all that's left is a highly malleable definition of such a deity that fits whatever you want him to be.

 

[webboffin]

3rd April 2003 at 10:29 PM LadyShea said this in Post #5

The first law of thermodynamics states that matter and energy can be neither created or destroyed, only change form. I think the Universe has always existed in some form . I do not know what its previous form may have been, or if it may return to that form at some point (entropy?), but I think that some kind of cycle is entirely possible.

Who said that laws of physics to what we know applied before this big bang?

 

[webboffin]

3rd April 2003 at 11:02 PM LadyShea said this in Post #7

Because, that's slightly different than what I believe. I think there has been an unending cycle of Big Bangs, and whatever we choose to call the state just before the Big Bang.

If the succession of big bangs had no beginning then why not a universe?