1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Private Member only forums for more serious discussions that you may wish to not have guests or search engines access to.
    • Your very own blog. Write about anything you like on your own individual blog.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. We are holding our 2022 Angel Ministry Drive now. Please consider signing up, or if you have any questions about being an Angel, use our staff application form. The world needs more prayer now, and it is a great way to help other members of the forums. :) To Apply...click here

For The Orthodox Faithful Who Are Confused About Covid Vaccines: Orthodox Talks

Discussion in 'The Ancient Way - Eastern Orthodox' started by SingularityOne, Oct 10, 2021.

  1. godleadyoursoul

    godleadyoursoul New Member

    60
    +44
    Australia
    Baptist
    Single
    Covid will end, but this whole push for a "united world" won't end.. once the jab propaganda ends, it will be replaced by something else. it's very clear what all of this is heading towards, yet some refuse to acknowledge it.
     
  2. FenderTL5

    FenderTL5 864511320 Supporter

    +5,062
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    US-American-Solidarity
    I don't know what you are talking about. What I know is my family, friends and colleagues are dying.
     
  3. Dorothea

    Dorothea One of God's handmaidens

    +2,784
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Single
    US-Others
    I agree with this. I don't have a problem with the litany of prayers that have contained frontline workers and those who have gotten sick or died from covid throughout this pandemic. We should be praying for all people, vaxxed and unvaxxed. We should care about people sick with covid or sick from the shot. What I have noticed is people's perceptive generally are from their own experiences in where they are located. My best friend has seen many people deathly ill from covid. I think she numbered them at nine. The area where she lives in the US has been hit three times worse than where I live. So, I understand her concerns and caring about what's going on with people's lives that she knows that are being affected by this. From my experiences, I know one woman who has died with covid. She had many comorbidities and had been in rehab for months, still trying to get better from some respiratory issue, irrc, before she caught covid and she couldn't recover from it. Other than her, I know no other person who'd died from covid. I have plenty of friends who've had covid and recovered, though. Anyway, I think individual experiences matter and that we should be sensitive and supportive to our friends, family, and neighbors that have gone through mourning and hardships at this time. Whether I believe that the powerful have used this virus to their advantage to do their "great reset" doesn't change the fact that people have and are dying from covid and from the covid shot (which, I think, makes sense since the health issues that covid causes, the vaccines/shots cause). Anyway, just felt I needed to point that out. It's hard to keep from getting caught up in things and forgetting the human side of all of this, but I must, as I don't want my heart to grow cold.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  4. truefiction1

    truefiction1 Fool

    +2,382
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    The essence of Orthodox Christianity is that we run to our death, either as living martyrs or as those who become subject to actual physical death. For this reason, your point seems to be without spiritual substance. We are all going to die... guaranteed. That hasn't really mattered that much since that day on which Jesus Christ rose from the dead, trampling down death by death, bestowing Life upon all those in the tombs. If, therefore, the vaccine is perceived as being from the evil one by the saints, then it pretty much has to be refused, because receiving it would be nothing less than a physical act of worship being paid to the one whose activities have brought it into being. The vaccines are undeniably tied to the evil act of murdering children in their mother's womb, followed by the unauthorized (by God), evil use of their bodies. It's not what we say, but what we do in our flesh (deeds) that identifies the subject of our worship: God or Satan. We can say we are pro-life, but our actions may indicate otherwise. Before we "buy in" to something, we ought to at least find out the whole nature of whatever it is we're going to purchase with our deeds. Is that understood, or should I elaborate more on the relationship between the vaccines and the ways of the evil one?
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2021
  5. Justin-H.S.

    Justin-H.S. (Constantine Option)

    +1,153
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    Are you sure it wasn’t medical malpractice that took them? Remember last year when doctors were ventilating covid patients when they later learned that that was not the proper protocol for this type of bio weapon/virus? Weren’t doctors also prescribing Remdisivir (or something) which turned out to be killing patients rather than helping?

    God bless you, too. I’m sorry you had friends taken, but it’s not my fault. I don’t work at the NIH.

    Anyways, onto other things, the Amish response to covid is inspiring and God willing my family will have some of them as neighbors when we move to the country.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2021
  6. FenderTL5

    FenderTL5 864511320 Supporter

    +5,062
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    US-American-Solidarity
    Of my family; my wife, myself and one of our three children (w/ a grandchild) are the only Orthodox. The remaining (other than the two children), including my mother, think we are part of a cult. Of my friends/colleagues who have died; they were a diverse group. There's at least one agnostic, but mostly evangelicals of varying degrees of commitment. None were Orthodox. Your post would seem to lack discernment as well as compassion.
    Furthermore, that seems to stand in at least partial opposition to the following prayers of the Church (cut/pasted out of the pocket Orthodox prayerbook). If that position were totally accurate, these prayers are unnecessary or at the minimum need to be rethought and amended. Perhaps that last one could simply be reworded to:
    May he/she hurry up to die and rest in peace.

    A Prayer of a Sick Person

    O Lord Jesus Christ, our Saviour, Physician of souls and bodies, who didst become man and suffer death on the Cross for our salvation, and through thy tender love and compassion didst heal all manner of sickness and affliction; do thou O Lord, visit me in my suffering, and grant me grace and strength to bear this sickness with which I am afflicted, with Christian patience and submission to thy will, trusting in thy loving kindness and tender mercy. Bless, I pray thee, the means used for my recovery, and those who administer them. I know O Lord, that I justly deserve any punishment thou mayest inflict upon me for I have so often offended thee and sinned against thee, in thought, word and deed. Therefore, I humbly pray thee, look upon my weakness, and deal not with me after my sins, but according to the multitude of thy mercies. Have compassion on me, and let mercy and justice meet; and deliver me from this sickness and suffering I am undergoing. Grant that my sickness may be the means of my true repentance and amendment of my life according to thy will, that I may spend the rest of my days in thy love and fear: that my soul, being helped by thy grace and sanctified by thy Holy Mysteries, may be prepared for its passage to the Eternal Life, and there, in the company of thy blessed Saints, may praise and glorify thee with thy Eternal Father and Life-giving Spirit. Amen.

    Thanksgiving After Recovery from Sickness

    Almighty God, our heavenly Father, Source of life and Fountain of all good things, I bless thy Holy Name, and offer to thee most hearty thanks for having delivered me from my sickness and restored me to health. Grant me thy continuing grace, I pray thee, that I may keep my good resolutions and correct the errors of my past life, and improve in virtue, and live a new life in dutiful fear of thee, doing thy will in all things, and devoting this new life which thou has given me to thy service: that thus living for thee, I may be found ready when it pleaseth thee to call me to thee, O heavenly Father, to whom with thine Only-begotten Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, and thine all-holy and Life-giving Spirit, is due all honor, praise, glory, and thanksgiving: now and ever, and unto ages of ages. Amen.

    A Prayer for the Sick

    O holy Father, heavenly Physician of our souls and bodies, who hast sent thine Only-begotten Son our Lord Jesus Christ to heal all our ailments and deliver us from death: do thou visit and heal thy servant N., granting him/her release from pain and restoration to health and vigor, that he/she may give thanks unto thee and bless thy holy Name, of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit: now and ever, and unto ages of ages. Amen.


    As for the remainder of your post, it doesn't match with any jurisdiction of Orthodoxy that I'm aware of. Earlier in this thread the position of the OCA was posted. It mirrors the statement of my Church which is:

    Discussing the topic of the vaccination of the faithful, the hierarchs unanimously affirmed that the Church not only permits vaccinations against diseases (e.g. polio, smallpox), but that She encourages Her Faithful, after medical tests and approbations, to be vaccinated with the approved vaccines against SARS-CoV-2 (COVID-19).

    In addition, although some may be exempt from the vaccination for clear medical reasons, there is no exemption in the Orthodox Church for Her faithful from any vaccination for religious reasons, including the coronavirus vaccine. For this reason, letters of exemption for the vaccination against the coronavirus for religious purposes issued by priests of the Archdiocese of America have no validity, and furthermore, no clergy are to issue such religious exemption letters for any reason.

    The Holy Eparchial Synod urges the faithful to pay heed to competent medical authorities, and to avoid the false narratives utterly unfounded in science and perpetrated on the Church by those who have succumbed to the disinformation and conspiracy theories that are widely available on social media sites.

    I remember how you responded to the OCA statement earlier. Has there been a jurisdiction to come forward that believes differently? If there has, it hasn't been posted so I'm not aware of it.
    I do know of a couple groups outside of Orthodoxy that believe similarly to what you stated.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2021
    • Like Like x 1
    • Prayers Prayers x 1
    • List
  7. FenderTL5

    FenderTL5 864511320 Supporter

    +5,062
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    US-American-Solidarity
    May God richly Bless you and your family. I have no animosity toward you as a person.
    My quarrel is with the cavalier, denial of the seriousness of this disease that you seem to promote.
    Even in your response above it is present.
    There's an old joke that carries a profoundly true moral that is in a way applicable.
    Do you know the difference between a minor and major surgery?
    A minor surgery happens to others, when it's yours it's always MAJOR.
    It would appear the further removed from the disease one is; the more the denial.
     
  8. truefiction1

    truefiction1 Fool

    +2,382
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    Christ taught us to put the Kingdom of God before all else. I already was aware that the people you know who had suffered or died, or else are suffering now, are not Orthodox Christians. Yet you say I seem to be lacking in discernment and compassion. Was Christ lacking in compassion? He's the one Who told us to seek first the Kingdom of God, and not to be anxious about anything, as all will be taken care of. FYI I've witnessed the sufferings and deaths of many. This will never change, however, how much greater the Kingdom of God, it's Love and its power, is than this world. It's only by the Holy Spirit that we can know this. The Saints know it, and they have said something different about vaccines than what the hierarchs are saying, just as in the days of Christ's first coming into the world, the priests and chief priests of the Pharisees were saying things other than what the Forerunner, Prophet, and Baptist John was saying. Those saying that there is something evil with the vaccine are not "outside" of Orthodoxy, necessarily, anymore than Iconodules were outside of Orthodoxy when Holy Icons were being desecrated and destroyed by Church leaders. The verdict is far from in on the matter of these vaccines, their link to abortion, and the unauthorized (by God) use of aborted fetus' cells to propagate "immortal" cells on which to engage in medical research.

    I could say much more, but I'll leave it at this for now.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2021
  9. Justin-H.S.

    Justin-H.S. (Constantine Option)

    +1,153
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    I have no doubt about its existence. The government funded its creation. I’ve also already had covid, and know many others who’ve had it and survived, some had a harder time than others, but they’re alright. I live in what the media calls a “hotspot.” I’m sure there has been fatalities. We’re a nation full of comorbid people. The FDA has been fattening us up for just this sort of designer disease.

    If you’re angry at my cavalier attitude toward this disease, wait till you hear of the cavalier attitude of those who funded and created the disease have with regards to human life.
     
  10. Andrei D

    Andrei D Well-Known Member

    659
    +764
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    I must say, I am full of confidence.

    upload_2021-10-23_8-10-42.png
    FDA weighs risk of myocarditis in review of Pfizer's COVID-19 vaccine for kids 5-11 - CBS News (archived to prevent "history changing" future edits of the article)

    And this doesn't cover the other thing I am seeing with worrisome frequency in recently vaccinated 18-25s in our county: ADEM. I haven't really seen this in the news, so I am not sure what is happening, I can't say for sure it's related, but... it's just that this thing is so rare, usually, that this (anecdotal) observation seems worrisome...
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • List
  11. FenderTL5

    FenderTL5 864511320 Supporter

    +5,062
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    US-American-Solidarity
    No, Christ was not lacking in compassion, He healed the sick.
    He didn't tell them to run to their death.

    fwiw, I have total respect for the consistency you have shown in regards to the absolute position you have taken on fetal stem cells. Previously (i think the other thread), my comments were directed at those who lacked that consistency, jumping back and forth in regards to vaccine vs. therapeutic.
    For most, not including your stance, I still think this is a political "my rights, my liberty" issue.
    The stance of the Orthodox Church seems to be to allow the individual to decide - which I agree with.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • List
  12. truefiction1

    truefiction1 Fool

    +2,382
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    That stance by the hierarchy, in case you aren't aware, is taken in order to preserve the institution of the Church, as a worldly entity, because the hierarchs know that almost all of us are not fit for martyrdom, including them, and that my "fanatical" position, if taken by the Church, would result in the masses leaving the institution altogether, and probably for the remainder of their lives. The truth is that both the path and the spirit that has brought these particular vaccines to us for use, and possible worldly benefit, is in accordance with the ways of the evil one and through the mystery of lawlessness working with great signs and wonders in the world, and to accept vaccination amounts to an act of worship (in the flesh) given to the evil ruler of this world. That's the truth they won't admit to themselves or to others. I'm sorry, but the very words of the Holy Saints with regards to our times and the present state of the Church strongly indicate that what I have just written is the truth. Maybe I wish things were not so, but at one time several decades ago I was graced with a great gift, undeserving to say the least, and I had come to see what these Holy Saints could see, by the Light of Christ and the Holy Spirit, and so I have great difficulty believing otherwise than what they have been saying and writing.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2021
  13. truefiction1

    truefiction1 Fool

    +2,382
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    According to the Gospel of St. John, the Theologian, Christ teaches this: "Whoever loves his life will lose it, but whoever hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life."

    What do you suppose the true believing Christians were doing in the time of the Apostles and the centuries that immediately followed? Many of them wanted to be martyred for sake of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and willingly endured it. They, quite frankly, ran towards it, because they Loved Christ and wanted to be with him, while hating their lives in this world because this world is indeed evil (Nowadays hardly anybody sees it this way). The essence of Orthodox Christian life is found in these words of Christ, Who wants us to hate our lives in this world so that we can be with Him where He is. Immediately after saying the words I quoted above, Christ followed with this: "If anyone serves Me, he must follow Me; and where I am, My servant will be as well." Christ was at that time speaking to His disciples about His impending death on the Cross. He was telling us that if we live our lives in like manner as He lived His, with truth in our works and in our speech, that this is the equivalent of dying to life in this world, either whilst still physically alive, or because the world hated Him and so it will hate us also, and will do unto us as it did to Him (i.e. persecute and kill us).

    Christ does not heal anyone merely for the sake of giving them more life in this world. He heals them so they'll believe in Him, and by so doing receive Eternal Life, which might actually mean that they will be murdered by evil unbelievers perhaps only days or hours or minutes, or even moments later. The people of this world are absolutely terrified of suffering and death. Medicine is their only hope in the face of illness, which is why people dare not perceive the evil works and evil spirit which sometimes work to produce certain medicines. We are not of this world. Our hope is in God alone.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  14. ArmyMatt

    ArmyMatt Regular Member Supporter

    +18,163
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    and He heals folks to endure more crosses in this life.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  15. truefiction1

    truefiction1 Fool

    +2,382
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    Sure, I think it's all a matter of what He calls us to personally do. Some are killed, while others live out life selflessly in the performance of various ministries, and die of natural causes. The crosses we bear are the ways in which we continually die to the world and receive more of the Kingdom of God, or Grace (or oil for our lamps for when the Bridegroom comes, as the Holy Seraphim of Sarov has explained).
     
  16. ArmyMatt

    ArmyMatt Regular Member Supporter

    +18,163
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    oh, I agree. I just wanted to add that for clarity’s sake
     
  17. truefiction1

    truefiction1 Fool

    +2,382
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    And I'll add something else: If we are willing to do anything that the Lord asks of us, He will come to us personally, with the workings of the Holy Spirit, and will lead us to the exact thing that He wants us to do, showing us by the Holy Spirit the path specific path we are to follow. If we're seeking His will, with all our heart, the Lord will help us find it. But this requires great prayerfulness, with fasting from the things in the world, and poverty of spirit, which is also a gift of God. The Saints say that studying God's will in the Holy Scriptures is also essential for having the ability to discern God's will. So all of these things that the Holy saints always teach us; to pray without ceasing, to fast in the proper way, to Love Christ by giving alms and ministering to those in need, to meditate upon God's Word and to come to Divine services as much as is possible, all these are things that all Orthodox Christians must do, because as He says, "Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven." (Matthew 7:21)

    *St. Ignatius Brianchaninov has especially hammered this point home in his spiritual counsels, to mention one more recent Holy Father.
     
  18. truefiction1

    truefiction1 Fool

    +2,382
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    Yes, thank you for the clarity. It's good and true for sure.
     
  19. ArmyMatt

    ArmyMatt Regular Member Supporter

    +18,163
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    indeed
     
  20. truefiction1

    truefiction1 Fool

    +2,382
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    I found this gem after searching for something online to help me remember St. Ignatius' Brianchaninov spiritual counsels regarding the study of Holy Scripture. I just had to share it here!

    "When reading the Gospel, do not seek pleasure, exaltation or brilliant thoughts. Seek to see the infallibly holy Truth.

    When reading the Gospel, try to fulfil its commandments and live it instead of being satisfied with the mere fruitless reading. This is the book of life, so read it with your life.

    Do not think that the Four Gospels, the most sacred of the books, begins with the Gospel of Matthew and ends with the Gospel of John for no reason. Matthew teaches more about doing the will of God, and his instructions are especially fitting for those who begin their path to Him. John elaborates on the union between God and man, renewed by the commandments. His concept is accessible to those who have already gone far on their road to knowing God.

    Opening the Holy Gospel, remember that you are preparing to read the book that will decide your eternal fate. It is by this book that we will be judged and, depending on what our earthly lives were in relation to it, we will inherit either eternal bliss or eternal torment (see: John 12:48).

    God revealed His will to a speck of dust as insignificant as man! The book that proclaims this great and all-holy will is in your hands. It is up to you whether to accept or reject the will of your Creator and Savior. Your eternal life and eternal death are in your hands: judge for yourself how careful and prudent you need to be. Do not trifle with your eternal destiny!

    Pray in contrition to the Lord that He will open your eyes to see the miracles hidden in His law (see: Psalms 119:18) that is the Gospel. Your eyes will be opened to see the wonderful healing of the soul from sin, done by the word of God. Healing of bodily ailments was only a sign of the healing of the soul, visible to carnal people and their minds, blinded by sensuality (see: Luke 5:24).

    Read the Gospel with utmost reverence and attention. Do not neglect any of its details; consider nothing in it of little importance. Every grain of it emits a ray of life. The neglect of life is death.

    Reading about the lepers, the weakened, the blind, the lame and the raging, healed by the Lord, think of your soul, held captive by demons and bearing the many different ulcers of sin, as being similar to those sick. Learn from the Gospel the faith that the Lord, Who healed them, will also heal you, if you diligently pray to Him for your healing.

    Acquire a disposition of soul that will make you capable of being healed. Those who confess their sinfulness and decide to depart from it are able to receive it (see: John 9:39-41). To a proud righteous man, that is, a sinner who does not see his sinfulness, the Savior is both useless and unnecessary (see: Matthew 9:13).

    Being able to see the sins and the fallen state of the whole human race is a special gift of God. Obtain this gift by prayer, and the Gospel of the Heavenly Doctor will be clearer to you.

    Try to let the Gospel assimilate into your mind and heart, so that, figuratively speaking, the entire life of your mind is immersed in it. Then your activity will readily become Evangelical. This can be achieved through unceasing reverent reading and studying of the Gospel." Saint Ignatius Brianchaninov on Reading the Gospel | A Russian Orthodox Church Website
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2021
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • List
Loading...